Flyable SPAD VII with LePrieur Rockets for EP1

[OlPaint01 0]

I have successfully installed working LePrieur rockets on the Pup, Camel and N11 following P10ppy's excellent rockets mod instructions. I need a flyable SPAD VII 180 to add the rocket mod to it. My attempts to edit the cockpit.ini file using SPAD13 parts has failed dismally. Ravenclaw did the work to get the AEG G4 and Gotha GIV flyable. Has anyone got the SPAD 7 150 and 180 models flyable and is willing to share them?

 

BTW, P10ppy's LePrieur rocket mod as designed fires a full salvo of all eight rockets at one munitions release. The rockets seem to spiral generally toward the designated target and can hit the ground hundreds of yards from the aim point. Is there a way to ripple fire the rockets in singles or pairs per trigger pull? And can the on-target accuracy be tightened up just for the fun of it? It is really frustrating to me to fly all the way to the target, shot the whole wad at one time, and not get a single rocket hit!!

 

OlPaint

[+Tailspin 3]

Extract the Spad13_Cockpit.ini and change the following line.

 

Position=-0.025,-0.760,0.630

 

 

Then add the following line to the Spad7_***.ini

 

CockpitDataFile=SPAD13_cockpit.ini

 

P10ppy's Le Prieurs ripple fire for me just fine. Considering they're basically the same thing as a large bottle rocket being fired at a forward speed of 75+ mph I think they behave realistically.

 

If you want straighter shooting rockets you might try to install the original Le Prieur rockets that come with the N11. The installation is different than P10ppy's but you should be able to get them working using the new weapon editor. However I don't know if they will work well with the EP.

[OlPaint01 0]

Salute Tailspin

 

Thanks quick responce for the instructions. I now have two more flyable a/c in the inventory. Could you give me some advise how to zero in the iron gunsight. The F4 view shows the tracer stream outside the center ring. It is actually centered in the upper right quadrant of the gunsight. I have played around with several of the variables in the Cockpit.ini but all I can accomplish is to move the gun flash animation away from the gun muzzle. I cannot find the variable the moves the tracer stream and the aim point of the machinegun.

 

OlPaint

[+whiteknight06604 934]

If your looking for flyable spads the look here. http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=5924

 

This pack has some of the best skins I have ever seen too.

[+Tailspin 3]

Gunsight fix....from a post by NeverEnough.

 

Open the aircraft data.ini and change the AimAngles= to this.

 

 

 

[internalGun]

SystemType=FIXED_GUN

GunTypeName=303CAL_VICKERS_MK1

InputName=FIRE_PRIMARY_GUN

GunGroup=1

MuzzlePosition=0.06,0.80,0.51

LightPosition= 0.06,0.85,0.51

AimAngles=-2.7,1.1,0.0 <Add this line...................

MaxAmmo=380

EjectShells=TRUE

EjectPosition=-0.45,-0.25,-0.24

EjectVelocity=-0.5,-1.0,-0.0

MinExtentPosition=0.01,-0.25,0.46

MaxExtentPosition=0.12, 0.80,0.59

GunFireAnimationID=7

Synchronized=TRUE

[OlPaint01 0]

I finally got the Le Prieur rockets setup and working in the Camel, Pup, Neuport11 and SPAD 7 following P10ppy's great series of posts. Thank, Tailspin for your help to understand the instructions. I have a fairly fast Intel DuoCore CPU running WinXP Pro SP2 with a Saitek EVO USB joystick. I have mapped firing the rockets onto button 3 to release the ordinance. I have no problems dropping bombs one at a time by pressing the mapped 3 button. A normal speed pressing/release tap of the button and one bomb falls away as expected. But what is erratating is that when I load rockets for the mission, my normal speed Press/Release action launches a complete salvo of all eight Le Prieurs off the tubes. I have discovered that I must do a series of very short and rapid taps of the joystick button to get only two or three rockets to fire at a time for a ripple effect. As Tailspin has explained, the Le Prieur is nothing more than large "Bottle Rocket" - a not very accurate point and shot munition at that. How do I set up the Munitions Release action to shoot a controlled one or two rockets at a time? How do I adjust the accuracy of rockets so they do not wabble and gyrate so much in flight to get a higher success hitting the target that I aim at? Which variables in the Weaponsdata.ini file control those aspects?

 

OlPaint

[+Tailspin 3]

Hmmmm.....When I said the rockets work fine I was still using the pre-Apr. 08 patched version of the EP. I have since installed them in my post patch version and they fire in "salvo" mode only. Before the patch they fired with each button press so this is something that has changed with the patch.

[+sinbad 27]

After the April patch with a light tap I can get partial salvo of 4 - 5 with remainder on next click. There must be something changed in the control coding.

[+p10ppy 2]

Sorry i've been mostly AWOL for a while, RL is been hectic

 

The accuracy thingy was deliberate and funnily enough the post patch behaviour is probably more realistic as well (I couldn’t make it do “salvo” firing pre-patch)

 

From what I read they(LePrieur's) were use in a 30-45 degree dive and launched all at once or in large groups from about 150m (shudder)

 

So the patch seems to have fixed that (ReleaseDelay)

I saw at thirdwire that this wasn’t working for OlPaint01 but ReleaseDelay=1.000000 seems to return it to the pre-patch behaviour for me (1 rocket at a time) YMMV

 

To get rid of the corkscrewing set the FinStabilized=FALSE to TRUE (they then are way to accurate imho but there seems to be nothing in between)

They still fire in an upward trajectory but it’s pretty easy to compensate for it

 

@ Tailspin

I’m still not convinced that changing the gun AimAngles is a good thing AI wise

It does seem to make them miss… but it is the fastest way

 

When I get some time I (or someone else) can make a “Gunsight” that can be added as a pilot or weapon and we can tweak that to the right position instead of moving the boresight to match the current gunsight

 

Have fun all :yes:

[+Tailspin 3]

Thanks for helping out P10ppy. Good point about changing the Aim Angles. I confess I hadn't been using the change until I revisited the original topic and found the info the other day so I hadn't noticed the problem. Can't have the AI missing any more than they do already. Looks like I'll go back to "Kentucky windage" for aiming the Spad 7's gun.

[+Tailspin 3]

BTW....ReleaseDelay=1.000 works for me too. Think I'll use the new one though.

[OlPaint01 0]

Thanks P10ppy and Tailspin

 

The ReleaseDelay=1.00000 and the FinStabilized=TRUE did the trick for me. I now have single fire rockets that are fairly accurate.

 

How to I become a member of the INI EDIT Preasthood? I marvel at the nuggets of knowledge that you folks have been able to dig out of the mystical INI files to adjust things. Is there an instructional manual available hiding out there somewhere for download?

 

FLASH OF INSIGHT - One important truth that just was revealed to me - any changes made to the Weapondata.ini file must be saved by opening the file in WeaponsEditor.exe. A new copy of Weapondata.dat has to be saved or the edited changes will never be recognized in the game. I have never read this in any postings on the ThirdWire, Capun or CombatAce Forums. Like I said - how to I join the preasthood? LOL

 

OlPaint01

[+p10ppy 2]

I’m afraid it’s not really a priesthood (or no one’s invited me)

More like a long mystical journey of self-enlightenment

(and many many many forum searches)

 

Info is sort of around but many “old hands” take some knowledge for granted so when searching for things its best to start at the earliest posts (like the weapon editor as you have found out)

 

The Knowledge base here http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showforum=99 is a good place to start but it’s really only a starting point

 

Ask here and as long as you are prepared to put in some legwork yourself plenty of people will help…

 

The ini structures and the amount of them can be quite daunting at first (actually they still are ) but you just need to get stuck in (backup, backup, backup)

The openess of the sim is what keeps me here

 

 

 

Good luck

[OlPaint01 0]

Where i should add the lines "ReleaseDelay=1.00000" and "FinStabilized=TRUE" ??

 

Aircraft data file or weapon data file ???

 

The edits should be in the WEAPONDATA.INI file under the Le Preiur Rocket section. Make sure after you edit the file in notepad that you open it in WeaponsEditor and save it. That will build a new WEAPONDATA.DAT file that the game reads. Before I realized that WeaponsEditor had to be used I could not figure out why my edits did not change anything. I have successfully added rockets to several Neuports using P10ppy's instructions. Using the factory settings, you need to get really up close and personal before firing - the rockets cork screw so wildly toward the target. A quick pullup is neccessary to avoid the explosion burst. Setting FinStabilized to TRUE will require a very high aim. The target must be aligned almost with the top wing to guarentee a hit from several hundred yards out.

 

I wish the burning balloon animation were more realistic - a burning mass falling to earth instead of a fire ball. How about the observer failing to earth under a parachute after he jumps for his life. But that may be a game limitation.

 

BTW, does anyone have a list of aircraft that were fitted with Le Preiurs at one time or another?

 

OlPaint

[+sinbad 27]

As far as my research can tell, P10ppy had given us an authentic mod. The sources I find indicate that the rockets were fired by a single switch, that they were extremely inaccurate, with orders to attack in a steep dive and fire as close as possible to the target.

 

US War Dept report noted in December 1916:

 

"The fire is commenced at 100-150 meters whilst diving at an angle of 45 degrees. The steeper the dive the greater the trajectory and the more effective the attack. The attack should be made in the direction of the length of the balloon and against the wind... the ring of the front sight permits the pilot to calculate the distance at which the firing is to commence... the pilot should fire as soon as the balloon fills the front ring. The discharge of the rockets does not occur immediately the button is touched and the delay varies slightly from one rocket to another. It is absolutely necessary to continue to hold the target in sight and the dive until the last rocket has been discharged. If the pilot breaks off or pulls out of the dive too quickly the last rockets will go in different directions and give a dispersion which is altogether inadmissible. "

 

BTW the orders also routinely instructed the pilots to machine gun any of the observers who might bail out. It seems the observers were very highly trained and difficult to replace --- more so than the "sausages."

 

I read one account by James Hall (who later wrote "Mutiny on the Bounty") describing his attack, in a near vertical dive to within about two hundred yards of the balloon, a salvo fire of the rockets, and a total miss by all.

 

This is an excerpt-

 

"High Adventure

A Narrative of Air Fighting in France

 

James Norman Hall

 

 

Orders-

 

At 10.40 A.M. the four patrols of attack will leave the field, and will rendezvous as follows. [Here followed the directions.] At 10.55, precisely, they will start for the lines, crossing at an approximate altitude of sixteen hundred meters, each patrol making in a direct line for the balloon assigned to it. Numbers 1 and 2 of each of these patrols will carry rockets. Number 3 will fly immediately above them, offering further protection in case of attack by enemy aircraft. Number 1 of each patrol will first attack the balloon. If he fails, number 2 will attack. If number 1 is successful, number 2 will then attack the observers in their parachutes. If number 1 fails, and number 2 is successful, number 3 will attack the observers. The patrol will then proceed to the aerodrome by the shortest route.

Commentary-

“Our Spads were ready after luncheon. A large square of tin had been fastened over the fabric of each lower wing, under the rocket fittings, to prevent danger of fire from sparks. Racks for six rockets, three on a side, had been fastened to the struts. The rockets were tipped with sharp steel points to insure their pricking the silk balloon envelope. The batteries for igniting them were connected with a button inside the car, within easy reach of the pilot. Lieutenant Verdane, our French second-in-command, was to supervise our practice on the field. We were glad of this. If we failed to “spear our sausage,” it would not be through lack of efficient instruction. He explained to Drew how the thing was to be done. He was to come on the balloon into the wind, and preferably not more than four hundred meters above it. He was to let it pass from view under the wing; then, when he judged that he was directly over it, to reduce his motor and dive vertically, placing the bag within the line of his two circular sights, holding it there until the bag just filled the circle. At that second he would be about 250 meters distant from it, and it was then that the rockets should be fired.

The instructions were simple enough, but in practicing on the target we found that they were not so easy to carry out. It was hard to judge accurately the moment for diving. Sometimes we overshot the target, but more often we were short of it. Owing to the angle at which the rockets were mounted on the struts, it was very important that the dive should be vertical.”

 

 

 

 

The Attack

 

A rocket sailed into the air and burst in a point of greenish white light, dazzling in its brilliancy, even in the full light of day. Immediately after this two white objects, so small as to be hardly visible, floated earthward: the parachutes of the observers. They had jumped. The balloon disappeared from view behind Drew's machine. It was being drawn down, of course, as fast as the motor could wind up the cable. It was an exciting moment for us. We were coming on at two hundred kilometers an hour, racing against time and very little time at that. “Sheridan, only five miles away,” could not have been more eager for his journey's end. Our throttles were wide open, the engines developing their highest capacity for power.

I swerved out to one side for another glimpse of the target: it was almost on the ground, and directly under us. Drew made a steep virage and dived. I started after him in a tight spiral, to look for the observers; but they had both disappeared. The balloon was swaying from side to side under the tension of the cable. It was hard to keep it in view. I lost it under my wing. Tipping up on the other side, I saw Drew release his rockets. They spurted out in long wavering lines of smoke. He missed. The balloon lay close to the ground, looking larger, riper than ever. The sight of its smooth, sleek surface was the most tantalizing of invitations. Letting it pass under me again, I waited for a second or two, then shut down the motor, and pushed forward on the control-stick until I was falling vertically. Standing upright on the rudder-bar, I felt the tugging of the shoulder-straps. Getting the bag well within the sights, I held it there until it just filled the circle. Then I pushed the button. . . .

The rockets leaped out, with a fine, blood-stirring roar. The mere sound ought to have been enough to make any balloon collapse. But when I turned, there it was, intact, a super-Brobdingnagian pumpkin, seen at close view, and still ripe, still ready for plucking. If I live to one hundred years, I shall never have a greater surprise or a more bitter disappointment.”

 

sinbad