+Crusader 2,101 Posted May 21, 2008 Hello wagsled, do you have any first-hand experience with it ? Would be interesting to hear about it, if possible. http://www.best-of-flightgear.dk/vtas.htm http://www.best-of-flightgear.dk/vtassafe.htm http://www.best-of-flightgear.dk/vtasaur.htm Two quotes from the last link: Task and Kocian (1995) cite the U.S. Navy’s Visual Target Acquisition System (VTAS), developed in the 1960's, as the first fully operational visually coupled sighting system. [However, the system was abandoned due to lack of sufficient missile fire control technology.] http://www.usaarl.army.mil/hmdbook/cp_001.htm ------------------------------------ 12 December 1971 --Air Development Squadron Four (VX-4) reported on an extensive series of evaluations of the helmet mounted sight, the Visual Target Acquisition System, in the F-4 that had commenced in 1969. While the report cited a number of shortcomings, it concluded that the helmet sight was superior to operational equipment used by fighter pilots in air-to-air combat. http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/avchr10.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wagsled 0 Posted May 22, 2008 (edited) Hello wagsled, do you have any first-hand experience with it ? Would be interesting to hear about it, if possible. http://www.best-of-flightgear.dk/vtas.htm http://www.best-of-flightgear.dk/vtassafe.htm http://www.best-of-flightgear.dk/vtasaur.htm Two quotes from the last link: Hi Crusader, When I was with VMFA-312 at Beaufort MCAS in 1975 and I think later with VMFA-251 deployed to Iwakuni MCAS, Japan, we had the VTAS helmet system, but only briefly if my failing memory serves me. VTAS required a special helmet/visor combination connected electrically to the VTAS control box in the left console (I think) in the cockpit by a rather thick, braided electrical cord. The helmet had a large housing for the VTAS visor which had an electrically projected sight. It may also have provided some HUD-type info (altitude, airspeed, etc.) but I can't be sure of that. (I may be mixing the VTAS up with some later testing I did using a more advanced helmet system on the F/A-18.) VTAS did have a sight projected on the visor - that much I do remember! The VTAS cord wasn't very flexible and somewhat restricted movement in the cockpit, the helmet was bulky and heavy (when you pulled G it was really tough to keep your head up, even for Marines!), and it had a fairly low MTBF. When it worked, it allowed us to slave the seeker head on the AIM-9 toward a target that would normally be outside the caged seeker cone. I think we could go as much as 60-degrees off boresight, but don't hold me to that. That allowed us, in a dogfight, to acquire a target with the AIM-9 without having to get in the narrow rear-quarter cone (which, of course, we had to do without VTAS). You could get a good tone and perhaps a shot, while still maneuvering at higher aspect angles. I think the weight, sketchy performance, and poor reliability eventually caught up with the system and we stopped using it, although that specific event doesn't stick out in my memory. I just recall that we tried it for a while and then stopped using it. Sorry for the lack of detail, but that's all I remember about VTAS. Regards, Wagsled Crusader: Guess I should have read the articles in the links you provided before I responded. Just looked through them and there is a lot of info there - much more than my poor memory can provide! W. Edited May 22, 2008 by wagsled Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Crusader 2,101 Posted May 22, 2008 wagsled, thanks for your reply! those articles contain lots of info, yep, but they cant replace info provided by guys like you, always interesting to read "first-hand" accounts. Overall, it sounds like VTAS was stopped by technical problems and than slipped " out of sight", so that the Soviets could grab a nice advantage some years later in the 80's when electronics became better. F-4N/S and F-14A with ( working) VTAS and AIM-9L in say 1977+ ... that would have been "interesting". This might would have led to AIM-9L/M versions with greater off-boresight performance, countering the Archer. Well , it turned out to be going somewhat different... Crusader. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icarus999 70 Posted December 3, 2008 wagsled,thanks for your reply! those articles contain lots of info, yep, but they cant replace info provided by guys like you, always interesting to read "first-hand" accounts. Overall, it sounds like VTAS was stopped by technical problems and than slipped " out of sight", so that the Soviets could grab a nice advantage some years later in the 80's when electronics became better. F-4N/S and F-14A with ( working) VTAS and AIM-9L in say 1977+ ... that would have been "interesting". This might would have led to AIM-9L/M versions with greater off-boresight performance, countering the Archer. Well , it turned out to be going somewhat different... Crusader. The Vtas hemet in 3rd or 4th generation model configuration ( not sure wich one ) was used well into the eighties, the navy used it exclusivly with the last of the F-4 phantoms - F-4S, F-4N, and the F-4J. The final version of the Vtas was considered to be much inproved, over the original and while not perfect It gave the F-4 crews that used it some distinct advantages. Makes me wonder if it could be modded into the game utilizing Trackir , perhaps by modding the so called hud at the top right hand corner of the screen- or should i say replacing it- with a circle and bead sight that tracks head/mouse movement. If this could be done as a starting point, think of the possibilities... AH-64??? modern hemet systems with the Aim-9X?? perhaps a better way to simmulate the AC-130, meaning to be able to fly it in a 30 degree bank around a target and fire the guns at the target with any sort of accuracy. ..... just a thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DWCAce 19 Posted December 3, 2008 I wonder if Hoser had any experience with this. You might want to ask him over at the F-14 Association. Good Find! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Typhoid 231 Posted December 3, 2008 (edited) a couple of years ago I dropped in on my son at his squadron where he was the AMO. He was in a fleet F-18C squadron and then a tour in VX-9. Besides "taking a spin" in the simulator, I got to try out their new VTAS helmet. Quite a device with a projection right on the helmet visor. It had what looked like a 4-wire connection at the back of the helmet that plugged into a socket in the cockpit and the pilot then had the data projected onto his visor in a HUD like display. In the avionics shop they plugged me into a test computer that put up the test display for me. Quite impressive. I never got to fly with it, of course. Edited December 3, 2008 by Typhoid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Crusader 2,101 Posted December 3, 2008 Hoser.. for sure, all AIM-ACE VX-4 kites were fitted with VTAS .. the pics show the sensors on the canopy rails.. there are more pics on the net, even at airliners which show them too.. if you know what to look for Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
