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Interesting news story I found. Please bear with me as I am a very proud southerner. These last few years it has pained me to see a symbol I grew up with desecrated first by the likes of the Klan whom I despise, then by others claiming it was offensive or inflammatory to them. It seemed the majority no longer had a say, only the squeky wheels got the grease...I am pleased to see people still concerned for their freedom and willing to speak up, espesially young people who I feared did not understand the pride behind this American flag. I see Southern pride is still strong, carried on by a new generation now.

I am proud to be Southern and proud of our ancestors who fought and died in the Civil War for the South.

I believe various groups have distorted the real meaning of the Confederate Flag for their own purposes. I strive to feature the Confederate Flag in the context of history, heritage, and pride in the Southern way of life.

The Confederate Battle Flag represents all Southern and even Northern Confederates regardless of race or religion and is the symbol of less government, less taxes, and the right of the people to govern themselves. It is flown in memory and honor of our Confederate ancestors and veterans who willingly shed their blood for Southern independence, who fought as only true Americans could... with courage, fortitude, daring, and resourcefulness.




Dixie's dilemma



Popular clothing brand continues to fan the flames of controversy over Confederate symbol


BY: Michael A. Fletcher

DATE: Sunday, January 05, 2003

PUBLICATION: The Washington Post



At the beginning of the school year, Dixie Outfitters T-shirts were all the rage at Cherokee High School. Girls seemed partial to one featuring the Confederate battle flag in the shape of a rose. Boys often wore styles that discreetly but unmistakably displayed Dixie Outfitters' rebel emblem logo.


But now the most popular Dixie Outfitters shirt at the school doesn't feature a flag at all. It says: ''Jesus and the Confederate Battle Flag: Banned From Our Schools But Forever in Our Hearts.'' It became an instant favorite after school officials prohibited shirts featuring the battle flag in response to complaints from two African-American families who found them intimidating and offensive.


The ban is stirring old passions about Confederate symbols and their place in Southern history in this increasingly suburban high school, 40 miles northwest of Atlanta. Similar disputes over the flag are being played out more frequently in school systems -- and courtrooms -- across the South and elsewhere, as a new generation's fashion choices raise questions about where historical pride ends and racial insult begins.


Schools in states from Michigan to Alabama have banned the popular Dixie Outfitters shirts just as they might gang colors or miniskirts, saying they are disruptive to the school environment. The rebel flag's modern association with white supremacists makes it a flashpoint for racial confrontation, school officials say.


''This isn't an attempt to refute Southern heritage,'' said Mike McGowan, a Cherokee County schools spokesman. ''This is an issue of a disruption of the learning environment in one of our schools.''


Walter C. Butler Jr., president of the Georgia State Conference of the NAACP, said it is unreasonable to ask African Americans not to react to someone wearing the rebel flag. ''To ask black people to respect a flag that was flown by people who wanted to totally subjugate and dehumanize you -- that is totally unthinkable,'' he said.


But the prohibitions against flag-themed clothing have prompted angry students, parents, Confederate-heritage groups and even the American Civil Liberties Union to respond with protests and lawsuits that argue that students' First Amendment rights are being trampled in the name of political correctness.


''This is our heritage. Nobody should be upset with these shirts,'' said Ree Simpson, a senior soccer player at Cherokee who says she owns eight Confederate-themed shirts. ''During Hispanic Heritage Month, we had to go through having a kid on the intercom every day talking about their history. Do you think they allow that during Confederate History Month?''


Simpson said no one complains when African-American students wear clothes made by FUBU, a black-owned company whose acronym means ''For Us By Us.'' Worse, she says, school officials have nothing to say when black students make the biting crack that the acronym also means ''farmers used to beat us.'' Similarly, she says, people assume that members of the school's growing Latino population mean no harm when they wear T-shirts bearing the Mexican flag.


Simpson believes the rebel flag should be viewed the same way. The days when the banner was a symbol of racial hatred and oppression are long gone, she contends. Far from being an expression of hate, she says, her affection for the flag simply reflects Southern pride. ''I'm a country girl. I can't help it. I love the South,'' she said. ''If people want to call me a redneck, let them.''


It is a sentiment that is apparently widely shared at Cherokee, and beyond. The day after Cherokee Principal Bill Sebring announced the T-shirt ban on the school's intercom this fall, more than 100 students were either sent home or told to change clothes when they defiantly wore the shirts to school. In the weeks that followed, angry parents and Confederate heritage groups organized flag-waving protests outside the school and at several school board meetings.


''All hell broke loose,'' said Tom Roach, an attorney for the Cherokee County school system. When principals banned the shirts at other county high schools in the past, he said, ''there was no public outcry. No complaints. No problems.''


But the Confederate flag was a particularly hot topic in Georgia this year. Democratic Gov. Roy Barnes was upset in his re-election bid in part because he successfully pushed for redesign of the Georgia state flag, which was formerly dominated by the Confederate battle emblem. On the new state banner, the emblem is reduced to a small icon. During the campaign, Barnes' opponent, Sonny Perdue, called for a referendum on the new flag, a position that analysts say helped make him the state's first elected Republican governor since Reconstruction.


Elsewhere in the South, civil rights groups have mobilized to remove the banner in recent years. Activists had it removed from atop the South Carolina statehouse and from other public places, saying it is an insult to African Americans and others who view it as a symbol of bigotry and state-sanctioned injustice. But that campaign has stirred a resentful backlash from groups that view it as an attack on their heritage.


''We're not in a battle just for that flag, we're in a battle to determine whether our Southern heritage and culture survives,'' said Dan Coleman, public relations director for the Sons of Confederate Veterans, one of the groups that joined the protests at Cherokee High School.


The battle over Confederate-themed clothing has made its way to the courts, which generally have sided with school dress codes that prevent items that officials deem disruptive.


In a 1969 decision, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Tinker vs. Des Moines Independent Community School District that school officials could not prohibit students from wearing black armbands to protest the Vietnam War, but only because the court found that the armbands were not disturbing the school atmosphere.


By contrast, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit earlier this year revived a lawsuit by two Kentucky students suspended for wearing shirts featuring the Confederate flag. The court said the reasons for the suspension were vague and remanded the case to a lower court, where it was dismissed after the school district settled with the students.


Also, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit earlier this fall sided with a Washington, N.J., student who challenged his school's ban on a T-shirt displaying the word ''redneck.'' The student was suspended from Warren Hills Regional High School for wearing the shirt, which school officials said violated their ban on clothing that portrays racial stereotypes. The school's vice principal said he took ''redneck'' to mean a violent, bigoted person.


But the court overturned the ban, saying the shirt was not proven to be disruptive. School officials, noting the school has a history of racial tensions, have promised to appeal the ruling to the Supreme Court.


''Since last year, we have gotten well over 200 complaints about the banning of Confederate symbols in schools,'' said Kirk Lyons, lead counsel for the Southern Legal Resource Center, a North Carolina-based public-interest law firm that works to protect Confederate heritage and is in discussions with some families at Cherokee High School. He said the center is litigating six lawsuits and that dozens of others challenging Confederate clothing bans have been filed across the country.


As the controversy grows, Confederate-themed clothing has become more popular than ever. The owner of Georgia-based Dixie Outfitters says the firm sold 1 million T-shirts last year through the company's Web site and department stores across the South. Most of the shirts depict Southern scenes and symbols, often with the Confederate emblem.


''This is not your typical, in-your-face redneck type of shirt,'' said Dewey Barber, the firm's owner. ''They are espousing the Southern way of life. We're proud of our heritage down here.''


Barber said he is ''troubled'' that his shirts are frequently banned by school officials who view them as offensive. ''You can have an Iraqi flag in school. You can have the Russian flag. You can have every flag but the Confederate flag. It is puzzling and disturbing,'' he said.




Im interested in hearing what you guys think. Please, this isnt a flame. I understand that this could be an emotional topic, but its an attempt to honestly guage opinions. Lets keep it Biohaz cool... :)

  • preservehonor.jpg

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I am a member of the "Sons of the Confederacy"as I have family lines that Rode with Hookers Calvery...they fought at several small battles and big ones,including-Gettysburg,Bull Run and others.

I have been seeing this forawhile..yes it is a part of my hertitage and I am proud of it.I fly a battle flag at my house and it's not a symbol of hate it's a symbol of my pride in my heritage.I believe if they tried to make me take it down I would sue to have every symbol of every racial background removed and made illegal,I'd lose but atleast it would show I care.

This has turned into a legal circus and the call"it is a symbol of hate"has been way over used.I guess it could be said that anything with an"X" on it is a symol of hate..or anything with a symbol of anybodys past is a "symbol of hate"I wish that people would think before they started screaming...a lawyer friend of mine just laughs every time somebody sues over this issue,and the religion issue as he says i't's just somebody tring to get their name in a paper and a lawyer who sees BIG dollar signs.

It's not about anything but the almighty dollar and people trying to force their opinion on everybody else.I for one will never lower my flags,be it the battle flag,or the Stars and Stripes(both are flying outside my house as I type this).

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I am a Yankee by birth; born and raised in Indianapolis. I have lived in Georgia since 1997, and prior to that, I lived in Jacksonville, FL for nine years. Georgia is not exactly my favorite place to live, but at age 50, I probably won't be going through the moving process again.


But the people here are friendly, and definitely proud of their heritage. I fly the old Georgia flag on my flagpole; not the new politically correct one. The only reason they changed the state flag here, was because the state was threatened by the NAACP, and other special interest groups, that they would boycott the state if they did not change the flag to remove the "stars and bars". Intimidation, pure and simple. And the wimpy state politicians proved they had no backbone.


Southerners are proud folk. This issue of banning Dixie Outfitter clothing in schools is just another instance of a small group of people trying to change the past to fit their own agenda. I hope they don't succeed. I think it is time for the majority to rebel and say "enough is enough". Political correctness has gotten too big of a hold in this country.



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As a cadet at the Citadel, you can definately see the South as a way of life. I'm exposed to it every waking moment. We have to memorize countless facts and trivia about the War.


But thats not the reason I came here. To tell you the truth, I have absolutely no interest in the War, I don't think the South should feel oblgiated to continue it's split with the rest of the nation. I almost feel embarrased sometimes.


I call myself a Texan, not a Southerner. Nor do I feel that Texas is part of the South. However, after all that, I can understand how folks here in SC still wanna fly their flag, etc... Personnaly, I feel its a matter of freedom and respect for others.


As to the african americans, I can understand their feelings when they see a redneck in a pickup with a big rebel flag. Its the same as when I walk through a bad inner city neighborhood. Or if, back at high school, I saw a group of blacks wearing 'Kill Whitey' shirts.


So, I'm not against the flag, or peopls feelings, but I am against the fear and apprehension it can cause. And I am absolutely against institutions forcing such action upon it's members.

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Seawolf, please dont think anyone here's being tough. Your joke did not offend me. I actually thought it was brassy enough to give me a chuckle. If you are black please understand I mean no offence by bringing this subject up. It has been something bothering me for awhile and I thought Id say something.


SD,I hate racism with all my heart. I have personally seen its effects and been a victim of it myself on several occasions, being hit twice for no other reason than being white. Ill tell you about it later if you wish. This occured at a time on Camp pendleton, 1975, when morale was REAL bad and racism was rampant. I have seen just as many black rascist as Ive seen white or any other color. Go to Arabia and tell me how you feel there. You mentioned the ghetto, ever been there? I have, more than once. I saw bad as well as good people there. Its the same down south. Im proud to say my family would have protected any black in danger there in our neighborhood, with our guns if need be, as only those who understand we have a reckoning with God would do.


Please dont assume SD that if I fly a Reb flag and drive a pickup Im some kind of a racist redneck. Thats what Im tryin to say here. My flag isnt about racism, its about pride. Racism's a sterotype the media and liberals want to portray thru their own ignorance. They call white southerners ignorant but they dont know us and how we live or feel. Thru the actions of hate filled whites from the south, all of us have been labeled with this and I HATE IT! Yep, Im a redneck, and yep I drive a pickup, and damn right I got a reb flag. But if one of my freinds says one thing against a man because of the color of his skin, he'll be walkin and no freind of mine and thats a promise! Ya see, Im a Christian. I beleive that God created all of us equal just like the Bill of rights says. I beleive in that paper and in the constitution. I take them for what they say and all true Americans should. I dont judge a man by his color, that aint right and I stand on principle here by God. I judge him by his words and actions. If he hates me for the color of my skin then he's the racsist and he's wrong. But I wont do that. To me he would be an rascist asshole, not a nigger.


Its not an easy thing to seperate the flag from the stereotypes. But a lot of things in this world arent easy to understand. Thats why we got to think for ourselves and not let mass media or politically correct liberals do it for us when they propagate thier lies and steroetypes. Im sorry if my flag offends, there's nothing I can do about that. I wont apologize for something supposedely done 150 years ago by people I didnt know. And its wrong for us to sit in judgement of them when we werent there. Its just like the bleeding hearts who second guess the dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan. We dont know how they felt or what they went thru except by the scanty records left. then to put yourself in their shoes is a mighty difficult thing. We should indeed try, just to attempt to understand, but it isnt easy. Yes, there was slavery then, no one can deny that. But at the time it was a world-wide thing. That doesnt make it right though and a LOT of people were coming to understand that even in the south. Robert E. Lee did not have any slaves and he his self said the war was not about slavery. His integrity is above reproach by anyone familiar with his story and hisrtory. Even Jeff Davis, the President of the south, was kindly towards the few slaves he had and was among the first to free them at the end of the war. There is so much the media and the anti-flag groups arent saying, so much truth being buried.


I beleive a lot of those crying now about the flag and removing it and changing history are people who are themselves filled with some kind of hate or pettiness or even racsim themselves. Most, heck ALL, of the blacks I knew growing up were just as proud to be southerners as I was. I NEVER heard a complaint from them about the flag. yes, they hated segregation and rightly so. But never the flag. To them it was a symbol of home too. So if some blacks are complaining now all of a sudden after 150 years, why is that? I think this nasty bout of whining that seems to permeate America these days has a LOT to do with it.


And consider this...Every picture I EVER saw of the Klan and their satanistic hate-filled rallies not only had a confederate flag but also the stars and stripes flying right alongside of it. So after the Stars and bars goes away, then what? Get rid of old glory too so we all suffer because of the actions of a few hate-filled people? Not on my watch pal.

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Hey does growing up on the east coast of cental Florida count as being a southerner. I dont have an accent, and I use words like Dude, and Bra (Bro), I tend to sound more like Keanu Reeves in all his earlier work than say... Charlie Daniels or Ross Perot.


I had some pretty harsh stuff to say in this, but I'm not gonna let it out, for the sake of not being the asshole.


Back to the location thing... is it fair to call me a Yankee, even though I sure as hell am not one. I've been called that by alot of rednecks... it's like if your not with'em then your against them.... wtf?


Edit: The Malcolm X thing doesnt fly, he was shot by black racist extremists after he went to Mecca and saw Blond haired Blue eyed muslims, and changed his tone.


Farakkan is a peice of sh*t though.

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If you were born in Florida, as I was, Jacksonville to be precise, then you are a southerner.


If you beleive what you have to say is harsh, then I would encourage you to be careful with what you say, using tact and explaining yourself carefully so people understand you, as this can be a very sensitive issue among some people.


What bothers me so much is that my flag has come to be a symbol of rascism when it was once more a symbol of honor. To many of us Southerners, the flag has come to mean freedom and the courage to stand up for it. We think of those who fought, who did so as Americans, with tenacity, fortitude, and true american resourcefullness. The forays of Nathan Bedford Forrest behind Union lines, the skill of Robert E. Lee despite being always outnumbered, the utter audacity of JEB Stuart to this day makes anyone familiar with the history of the war, northern or southern born, admire the pluck of these fine Americans and swell with pride that our good country is populated with more such as these. The stories of the final days of the southern armies is one of sorrow and despair yes, men wearing nothing but rags, eating rats while under continual bombardment. But it is also one of an ingrained American tenacity to see the game thru to the end, to never give up, never say die. Did you know the Union armies who accepted Robert Lee's surrender cheered the men in grey who marched past them after laying down their arms and banners? They understood what these brave Americans had accomplished in giving their service to the end thru all hell. Here is a description of the surrender by none other than Gen'l GL Chaimberlain who had led the glorious defence of Little Round Top at Gettysburg for the North...


"The arrangement of the soldiery was as follows: The Third Brigade on one side of the street in line of battle; the Second, known as Gregory's, in the rear, and across the street, facing the Third; the First Brigade also in line of battle.

"Having thus formed, the brigades standing at 'order arms,' the head of the Confederate column, General Gordon in command, and the old 'Stonewall' Jackson Brigade leading, started down into the valley which lay between us, and approached our lines. With my staff I was on the extreme right of the line, mounted on horseback, and in a position nearest the Rebel solders who were approaching our right.

"Ah, but it was a most impressive sight, a most striking picture, to see that whole army in motion to lay down the symbols of war and strife, that army which had fought for four terrible years after a fashion but infrequently known in war.

"At such a time and under such conditions I thought it eminently fitting to show some token of our feeling, and I therefore instructed my subordinate officers to come to the position of 'salute' in the manual of arms as each body of the Confederates passed before us.

"It was not a 'present arms,' however, not a 'present,' which then as now was the highest possible honor to be paid even to a president. It was the 'carry arms,' as it was then known, with musket held by the right hand and perpendicular to the shoulder. I may best describe it as a marching salute in review.

"When General Gordon came opposite me I had the bugle blown and the entire line came to 'attention,' preparatory to executing this movement of the manual successively and by regiments as Gordon's columns should pass before our front, each in turn.

"The General was riding in advance of his troops, his chin drooped to his breast, downhearted and dejected in appearance almost beyond description. At the sound of that machine like snap of arms, however, General Gordon started, caught in a moment its significance, and instantly assumed the finest attitude of a soldier. He wheeled his horse facing me, touching him gently with the spur, so that the animal slightly reared, and as he wheeled, horse and rider made one motion, the horse's head swung down with a graceful bow, and General Gordon dropped his swordpoint to his toe in salutation.

"By word of mouth General Gordon sent back orders to the rear that his own troops take the same position of the manual in the march past as did our line. That was done, and a truly imposing sight was the mutual salutation and farewell.

"At a distance of possibly twelve feet from our line, the Confederates halted and turned face towards us. Their lines were formed with the greatest care, with every officer in his appointed position, and thereupon began the formality of surrender.

"Bayonets were affixed to muskets, arms stacked, and cartridge boxes unslung and hung upon the stacks. Then, slowly and with a reluctance that was appealingly pathetic, the torn and tattered battleflags were either leaned against the stacks or laid upon the ground. The emotion of the conquered soldiery was really sad to witness. Some of the men who had carried and followed those ragged standards through the four long years of strife, rushed, regardless of all discipline, from the ranks, bent about their old flags, and pressed them to their lips with burning tears.

"And it can well be imagined, too, that there was no lack of emotion on our side, but the Union men were held steady in their lines, without the least show of demonstration by word or by motion. There was, though, a twitching of the muscles of their faces, and, be it said, their battle-bronzed cheeks were not altogether dry. Our men felt the import of the occasion, and realized fully how they would have been affected if defeat and surrender had been their lot after such a fearful struggle."


Again, another letter from Chaimberlain...

The momentous meaning of this occasion impressed me deeply. I resolved to mark it by some token of recognition, which could be no other than a salute of arms. Well aware of the responsibility assumed, and of the criticisms that would follow, as the sequel proved, nothing of that kind could move me in the least. The act could be defended, if needful, by the suggestion that such a salute was not to the cause for which the flag of the Confederacy stood, but to its going down before the flag of the Union. My main reason, however, was one for which I sought no authority nor asked forgiveness. Before us in proud humiliation stood the embodiment of manhood: men whom neither toils and sufferings, nor the fact of death, nor disaster, nor hopelessness could bend from their resolve; standing before us now, thin, worn, and famished, but erect, and with eyes looking level into ours, waking memories that bound us together as no other bond;--was not such manhood to be welcomed back into a Union so tested and assured?




Here's an interesting article on R. E. Lee...



Here's what Encarta says about him...



"The Character of Lee"


"He possessed every virtue of the great commanders, without their vices. He was a foe without hate; a friend without treachery; a private citizen without wrong; a neighbor without reproach; a Christian without hypocrisy, and a man without guilt. He was a Caesar without his ambition; a Frederick without his tyranny; a Napoleon without his selfishness; and a Washington without his reward. He was obedient to authority as a servant, and loyal in authority as a true king. He was gentle as a woman in life; modest and pure as a virgin in thought; watchful as a Roman vestal in duty; submissive to law as Socrates, and grand in battle as Achilles."

(From the Address of the Honorable B.H. Hill before the Georgia branch of the Southern Historical Society at Atlanta, February 18, 1874.)




Its not easy to explain the southern mistique, its made up of so many things besides even the war. But it is as every bit American and worthy of its place among us as any American way. The south may have lost the civil war but it took Americans to beat Americans. The civil war to this day is still a huge part of who we are as Americans. It was a defining moment. And despite her loss of the war and so many of her sons, the south is still proud of the WAY she fought and stood for what she beleived in...as only Americans can do.

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Here is another article I found on the origins of the Civil War...

It can be found HERE!



After the Constitution was adopted by all of the States in 1789, uniting the States into one nation, differences between the States had been worked out through compromises. By 1861 these differences between the Northern States (which included the Mid-Western and Western States) and the Southern States had become so great that compromise would no longer work. Thus, a conflict started within our nation that was called the Civil War.

For more than 30 years arguments between the North and South had been growing. One of these quarrels was about taxes paid on goods brought into this country from foreign countries. This kind of tax is called a tariff. In 1828 Northern businessmen helped get the "Tariff Act" passed. It raised the prices of manufactured products from Europe which were sold mainly in the South. The purpose of the law was to encourage the South to buy the North's products. It angered the Southern people to have to pay more for the goods they wanted from Europe or pay more to get goods from the North. Either way the Southern people were forced to pay more because of the efforts of Northern businessmen. Though most of tariff laws had been changed by the time of the Civil War, the Southern people still remembered how they were treated by the Northern people.


In the years before the Civil War the political power in the Federal Government, centered in Washington D.C., was changing. The Northern and Mid-Western States were becoming more and more powerful as the populations increased. The Southern States were losing political power. Just as the original thirteen colonies fought for their independence almost 100 years earlier, the Southern States felt a growing need for freedom from the central Federal authority in Washington D.C. They felt that each State should make its own laws. This issue was called "State's Rights". Some Southern States wanted to secede, or break away from the United States of America and govern themselves.


Another quarrel between the North and South, and perhaps the most emotional one, was over the issue of slavery. Farming was the South's main industry and cotton was the primary farm product. Not having the use of machines, it took a great amount of human labor to pick cotton. A large number of slaves were used in the South to provide the labor. Many slaves were also used to provide labor for the various household chores that needed to be done. Many Northerners thought that owning slaves was wrong, for any reason. Some of those Northerners loudly disagreed with the South's laws and beliefs concerning slavery. Yet slavery had been a part of the Southern way of life for well over 200 years. The Constitution of the United States guaranteed the right to own property and protected against seizure of property. A slave was property. The people of the Southern States did not like the Northern people telling them that owning slaves was a great wrong. A person either believes that slavery is right or that slavery is wrong, so how can two people arguing over such an issue compromise?


Abraham Lincoln was elected President of the United States in 1860. He vowed to keep the country united and the new western territories free from slavery. Many Southerners were afraid that he was not sympathetic to their way of life and would not treat them fairly. South Carolina was the first State to secede from the United States soon after the election of Abraham Lincoln. Six other Southern States quickly followed and also seceded. These States joined together and formed a new nation which they named the Confederate States of America. Jefferson Davis was elected their first president. On April 12, 1861 the Confederate States of America attacked Fort Sumter in South Carolina, which was held by Federal (Union) troops and flew the United States flag. As open conflict increased, other United States seceded and joined the Confederacy. The fighting of the Civil War would take four long years to end. This country would remain united and slavery would come to an end.


(Courtesy of U.S. Department of Interior, National Park Service)


" ... It will be a glorious day for our country when all the children within its borders shall learn that the four years of fratricidal war between the North and South was waged by neither with criminal or unworthy intent, but by both to protect what they conceived to be threatened rights and imperiled liberty: that the issues which divided the sections were born when the Republic was born, and were forever buried in an ocean of fraternal blood."


- Lieutenant General John B. Gordon, CSA

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I was born in Huntsville Alabama (pops worked for Redstone).... lucky me, my sisters got San Diego, and I get Bama. :rolleyes:


Moved to florida when I was barely a year old.

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