A10 -A Air to air combat

[MaverickMike 10]

Hi guys,

 

I have been playing the thirdwire games for around 6 months and have gradually been building up the difficulty level (i.e changing games settings from easy to medium to hard) Last week i started my first campaign with evrything set to hard in the a10a (WOE campaign red lightning)

 

Firstly i would just like to say that i know the A10 is not built for dogfights but i keep finding myself in a position where there are Migs up my ass, my wingman is dead and the nearest escort is 20 miles away! Its not very pleasant after a succesful CAS mission to be blown up on the way home!

 

I was just wondering if any of the 'vets' of the thirdwire series could offer some tips on fightin back against the migs. They always seem to be able to outrun and outturn me so i am having difficulty primarily setting up a shot with the AIM9. I havnt even attempted to use the GAU8 yet lol

 

Any replies would be appreciated

 

Mike

[Viper6 3]

Wow! I have NO problem Out turning or turning inside of any mig due to the slow speed of the Hawg, and with all the punishment

 

the Hawg can take, I just get low and when they come down to get me, I just let loose with a GAU burst, Try to get the migs to loose energy down there with you then turninside of them and WHAM!

Edited October 13, 2008 by Viper6

[MaverickMike 10]

Thanks viper

 

However everytime i attempt to turn inside the mig i lose lots of airspeed and before i have a chance to let rip hes left me in the dust lol

[Viper6 3]

Winders are good out to 2 or 3 miles so just turn inside as fast as your Hawg will go and let loose a winder as he is blazin away from you. And try to make him come down stairs in the weeds with you. (Full throttle in the turn)

Edited October 13, 2008 by Viper6

[FastCargo 412]

First, avoid if possible. If you can get SA on where the Migs are at from RC, and can alter your flight path to avoid them, do so.

 

Second, get low, Low, LOW. Fast movers have trouble maintaining proper attitude (they get target fixation and run into the ground) at less than 100 feet in altitude.

 

Third, do not get into an extended turning fight. A Hog has enough energy to get one, maybe two hard turns in level flight. After that, you're out of energy and will take a long time to get it back. This can be useful if the MiG is closing too quickly. You can do a hard bat turn into him, causing him to overshoot, then QUICKLY reverse direction and either gun him or give him a Winder for his trouble. But that is it. Do not press the attack if your gun or winder misses. Instead, extend, get distance, GET LOW and run. Hopefully you can either run him into the ground, or make his pursuit curve take so long that he runs out of gas and heads home (which I've seen happen). If he comes after you again, just repeat the same procedure (because it will take a long time for him to get his nose back around and catch up to you) because hopefully while he's been turning to catch up to you, you've been gaining energy back and are ready for another hard turn.

 

Fourth, did mention stay low? Try to be able to do all of this without climbing above 100, maybe 200 feet. Otherwise, you are in his element and your chances of survival go down dramatically...especially if he's smart and maintains his energy.

 

FastCargo

 

PS What I would recommend is taking one of the single missions that comes with WOE and altering it (making a backup first) to practice a one on one encounter with a Mig. If you look at the MSN files in the Missions directory, you'll note that they are just text files, and most parameters are very easy to figure out. So just take one of the 'one on one' missions, change the aircraft, lower the altitude of the players, and give it a shot. Practice makes perfect...

[rovert97 1]

ever hear of the Warthog Stomp? get him on your tail about 2nm behind you. make sure you have enough air speed, and then do a quick 180 and blast some lead in his face. you dont have to be accurate if he is in burner to get you, cuz he will more then likely spaz out from the gun fire and end up in it. do a nice spray in like a circle motion around where his flight path is. more then likely he will run into some of the rounds, and it wont take much to get him out of the air.

 

if all else fails, the AIM-9L works wonders and your wingmen are dumb when it comes to ground attack. keep your munitions loaded, and have your wingman loaded with 4 winders, and send him after anyone on your tail.

[FastCargo 412]

Actually, here's an example of a MSN file I use to practice:

 

[MissionHeader]

AircraftType=AT-38B

MissionMap=GermanyCE

MissionType=CAP

StartTime=14:30:00

StartDate=09/18/1979

 

[MissionData]

FriendlyAirActivity=1

EnemyAirActivity=1

EnemyAirDefenseActivity=0

FriendlyAirDefenseActivity=0

PlayerMissionID=1

PlayerPositionID=1

MissionNumber=5123

AdjustStartPosition=FALSE

AdjustBaseWaypoint=TRUE

 

[Weather]

WeatherType=SCATTERED

WeatherAlt=2000.0

WeatherThickness=200.0

FogAmount=0.6

ContrailAlt=8000.0

StartWindDirection=180

StartWindSpeed=2.57222

WindGustingAmount=2.57222

 

[AircraftMission001]

AircraftType=AT-38B

Name=CROW 11

FormationType=USFighter

Size=1

RandomChance=100

MissionType=CAP

ObjectiveID=2

RatingForSuccess=100

Position=538176.0,629000.0,5000.0

Heading=90.0

Speed=265

Alignment=FRIENDLY

Nation=USAF

Squadron=435FTS

AircraftNumber=00

PilotTrainingStandard=EXCELLENT

Loadout=AirToAir

Waypoint[01].Command=WAYPOINT

Waypoint[01].Objective=TRUE

Waypoint[01].Position=530000.0,629000.0,2800.00

Waypoint[01].Size=1500.00

Waypoint[01].Speed=265.00

Waypoint[02].Command=APPROACH

Waypoint[02].Position=235954.80,381722.90,2421.19

Waypoint[02].Size=1500.00

Waypoint[02].Speed=255.00

Waypoint[03].Command=LAND_LINEUP

Waypoint[03].Position=236980.60,384370.00,807.06

Waypoint[03].Size=0.00

Waypoint[03].Speed=0.00

Waypoint[04].Command=LAND_TOUCHDOWN

Waypoint[04].Position=245000.00,389000.00,0.00

Waypoint[04].Size=0.00

Waypoint[04].Speed=0.00

 

[AircraftMission002]

AircraftType=AT-38BO

Name=CROW 12

FormationType=SovietFighter

Size=1

RandomChance=100

MissionType=CAP

ObjectiveID=1

Position=542176.0,629000.0,5000.0

Heading=270.0

Speed=145.0

Alignment=ENEMY

Nation=SOVIET

SquadronMarking=-1

AircraftNumber=1

PilotTrainingStandard=EXCELLENT

Loadout=AirToAir

Waypoint[01].Command=WAYPOINT

Waypoint[01].Objective=TRUE

Waypoint[01].Position=538176.0,629000.0,2800.0

Waypoint[01].Size=1500.0

Waypoint[01].Speed=145.0

Waypoint[02].Command=WAYPOINT

Waypoint[02].Position=543176.0,629000.0,2300.0

Waypoint[02].Size=1500.0

Waypoint[02].Speed=145.0

Waypoint[03].Command=APPROACH

Waypoint[03].Position=660564.78,662805.95,2421.19

Waypoint[03].Size=1500.00

Waypoint[03].Speed=145.00

Waypoint[04].Command=LAND_LINEUP

Waypoint[04].Position=654980.60,676370.00,807.06

Waypoint[04].Size=0.00

Waypoint[04].Speed=0.00

Waypoint[05].Command=LAND_TOUCHDOWN

Waypoint[05].Position=663000.00,681000.00,0.00

Waypoint[05].Size=0.00

Waypoint[05].Speed=0.00

 

You can see it's pretty easy to figure out and alter.

 

FastCargo

[MaverickMike 10]

Thanks guys

 

I am just about to go givbe it a try. All the help is much appreciated. Knew i could get some good tips from you guys.

 

Thanks fast cargo for the MSN file. Will give that a try later

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Personally, i've fired exactly 1 Aim9 form an A-10 and both narrowly missed getting a kill and being killed.

 

While i was lining up a MIG, another was right behind me. As i fired the Sidewinder, i rolled into a violent split S and headed for the weeds with the second MIG spraying cannon fire at me. My right wing was shot up but i managed to get so far down that the MIG could get me and so i got the hell out of there.

 

Moral? Don't get into the habit of engaging MIGs in an A-10!

[WDH 0]

[RED Crown]Cowboy 11...Disengage!Disengage!RTB!

[Cowboy 11]Red Crown..negative!I ask for assists earlier and you said "Negative..there's no other fighters available"!

[Red Crown]....static.....static.....

[rovert97 1]

red crown must work for the enemy, they never help you out, but will help out AI flights.

 

oh and i seem to be pretty damn good in A2A with the A-10. got quite a few MiG-29 kills in the Berlin Crisis Campaign

[Lt. James Cater 62]

red crown must work for the enemy, they never help you out, but will help out AI flights.

 

oh and i seem to be pretty damn good in A2A with the A-10. got quite a few MiG-29 kills in the Berlin Crisis Campaign

 

33 kills?

 

What are your settings and how are you using the aircraft?

[WLJet 1]

I also just started playing the Red Lightning campaign a few days ago with the Sept patch installed. In flying the missions, at times I also find myself being intercepted by MiGs with the air calvary was several miles away and RC was not helpful in vectoring aid.

 

I agree with what FastCargo said in getting real LOW. In one of the missions I was chased by a MiG-21 after I struck my target. My wingman was shot down, I was alone and out of missiles. I flew between about 100-200ft AGL and fly back as fast as I can to base. Throughout the flight the MiG had difficulty engaging me. But it did tail me for a very long distance. All this time I was hoping the Mig would ran out of gas but didn't.

 

As I was flew to the FEBA back from the east I decided to turn to the direction of the nearest friendly airbase rather than back to home base. I figured the AAA gunners around the nearest friendly base could help me out.

 

The tactic worked!!

 

After the MiG was destroyed I realised I was chased by not one but TWO Migs!! But the wingman decided to turn tail after watching his lead got shot down...

 

After a few a missions in the campaign I figure a method of engaging my targets without having to worry about enemy interceptors. The method I'm about to share is actually a CHEAT!!! Basically, exploiting the weakness of the AI routine. It's not realistic but it works great.

 

Unlike air-to-air missions, the targets on the ground doesn't move away from where they are supposed to be. So instead of taking off immediately when the campaign starts, I basically kept my Hog flight on the runway...fast accelerate the time, listen to the radio and all the action that was happening...The enemy interceptors will fly their usual path which in the game is designed to intercept your flight/escort/support flights. But me and my flight aren't there. So when I feel the action was all over, then I started my engines. By the time I get to my target area either all the enemy flights have returned to base or are on their way back and far far away from my flight or target. So no more harrassment from enemy interceptors throughout my mission

[Lt. James Cater 62]

I also just started playing the Red Lightning campaign a few days ago with the Sept patch installed. In flying the missions, at times I also find myself being intercepted by MiGs with the air calvary was several miles away and RC was not helpful in vectoring aid.

 

I agree with what FastCargo said in getting real LOW. In one of the missions I was chased by a MiG-21 after I struck my target. My wingman was shot down, I was alone and out of missiles. I flew between about 100-200ft AGL and fly back as fast as I can to base. Throughout the flight the MiG had difficulty engaging me. But it did tail me for a very long distance. All this time I was hoping the Mig would ran out of gas but didn't.

 

As I was flew to the FEBA back from the east I decided to turn to the direction of the nearest friendly airbase rather than back to home base. I figured the AAA gunners around the nearest friendly base could help me out.

 

The tactic worked!!

 

After the MiG was destroyed I realised I was chased by not one but TWO Migs!! But the wingman decided to turn tail after watching his lead got shot down...

 

After a few a missions in the campaign I figure a method of engaging my targets without having to worry about enemy interceptors. The method I'm about to share is actually a CHEAT!!! Basically, exploiting the weakness of the AI routine. It's not realistic but it works great.

 

Unlike air-to-air missions, the targets on the ground doesn't move away from where they are supposed to be. So instead of taking off immediately when the campaign starts, I basically kept my Hog flight on the runway...fast accelerate the time, listen to the radio and all the action that was happening...The enemy interceptors will fly their usual path which in the game is designed to intercept your flight/escort/support flights. But me and my flight aren't there. So when I feel the action was all over, then I started my engines. By the time I get to my target area either all the enemy flights have returned to base or are on their way back and far far away from my flight or target. So no more harrassment from enemy interceptors throughout my mission

 

Dude,

 

expect much unlove coming your way!

[WDH 0]

Not cool to cheat!What's the point?Besides this a flight sim not an arcade.The reason why most of us fly them is for the realism and entertainment.I'll agree with Lt. James Carter,dude....

[Rambler 1-1 9]

I've been responsible for many MiG crashes while in bombers... With the A-10 (or any other slow aircraft) I like to fly as low as possible and when they dive down on you, do a quick S-turn... they'll either auger in or overshoot and try again untill they run outa gas.

[WLJet 1]

I can testify the tactics suggested by Rambler 1-1 do work. I seldom fly attack aircrafts prior to the Sept patch. But in one of those few times I did, I flew a Su-7 mission in the Korean terrain. I was chased by an F-4 and did similar to what Rambler suggested and the F-4 crashed. Plus, I find hugging low nullify the effectives of the AIM-7E Sparrow missile.

 

As for my earlier suggestion of the cheat method, I hear ya! I agree the cheat tactic is not realistic and would defeat the purpose of simulating involvement in a strike mission. I know its not going to be a popular suggestion that's why I thought I should mention beforehand that its cheating and not realistic!

 

Maybe the method is useful if a casual player just want to have an easy mission for a change - a "milk run" to the target. Personally, I don't use the method all the time upon discovering its effectiveness. Can be a bit boring.

 

The last 2 Hog missions I flew before my posting on the cheat method, I decided to join in the "fun" with the strike packages rather than staying on the runway until the "coast is clear".

[Lt. James Cater 62]

I've been responsible for many MiG crashes while in bombers... With the A-10 (or any other slow aircraft) I like to fly as low as possible and when they dive down on you, do a quick S-turn... they'll either auger in or overshoot and try again untill they run outa gas.

 

 

I did this once while first checking out in an A-10. A MIG-23 couldn't pull out and crashed at the base of a tree. Lesson to all...if you can, hug the deck!