+lindr2 Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 I work at new FM for MiG-29 family MiG-29BM in this moment, using ORIGINAL MANUALS Avionics.ini changes is complited. New Hud made. Loadout corrected. FT PTB-1150 present in my WP. What's changed in DATa.ini for new FM (for testing, i need your comments) WIP [Fuselage] ..... CD0MachTableNumData=7 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.40 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.413, 1.000, 0.876, 5.998, 3.110, 2.768, 9.483 ;CD0MachTableData=1.275,1.000,0.991,46.549,48.253 CDLAlphaTableNumData=15 CDLAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CDLAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CDLAlphaTableData=143.365,90.282,52.247,26.750,11.285,3.344,0.418,0.000,0.418,3.344,11.285,26.750,52.247,90.282,143.365 ..... [LeftWing] / [RightWing] .... CLa=1.0 ;1.1915 CD0=0.0025 CDL=0.0035 ;Cmq=-0.8369 ;Cmad=-0.8878 Cmq=-0.1369 Cmad=-0.01878 ....... CLaMachTableNumData=25 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.10 ;CLaMachTableNumData=5 ;CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.4, 1.3, 1.1, 1.0, 0.85, 0.78, 0.75, 0.72, 0.71, 0.7, 0.67, 0.62, 0.6, 0.58, 0.52, 0.48, 0.42, 0.39, 0.35 CD0MachTableNumData=13 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.20 CD0MachTableData=1.0, 1.0, 0.96, 0.92, 0.92, 1.6, 2.0, 1.92, 1.88, 1.74, 1.7, 1.66, 1.6 ;CD0MachTableNumData=5 ;CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.40 ;CD0MachTableData=1.792,1.000,1.081,6.048,6.254 ..... // Engines --------------------------------------------------------- [Engine1] ReferenceName=Sarkisov RD-33 SystemType=JET_ENGINE InputName=THROTTLE_CONTROL EngineID=1 HasAfterburner=TRUE NumAfterburnerStages=4 SLThrustDry=53380.00 SLThrustWet=81220.00 .... ;AltitudeTableNumData=10 ;AltitudeTableDeltaX=3048.0 ;AltitudeTableData=1.000,0.802,0.634,0.496,0.381,0.288,0.206,0.147,0.105,0.000 AltitudeTableNumData=15 AltitudeTableDeltaX=2000.0 AltitudeTableStartX=0.0 AltitudeTableData=1.000, 0.921, 0.802, 0.699, 0.66, 0.585, 0.471, 0.283, 0.24, 0.206, 0.17,0.135,0.105,0.065,0.000 ;DryMachTableNumData=4 ;DryMachTableDeltaX=0.4 ;DryMachTableData=1.000,0.980,1.172,0.000 DryMachTableNumData=6 DryMachTableDeltaX=0.2 DryMachTableStartX=0.0 DryMachTableData=1.000, 0.922, 0.90, 0.922, 1.00, 1.05 ;WetMachTableNumData=7 ;WetMachTableDeltaX=0.4 ;WetMachTableData=1.000,0.991,1.207,1.683,2.473,2.750,3.027 WetMachTableNumData=13 WetMachTableDeltaX=0.2 WetMachTableStartX=0.0 WetMachTableData=1.000, 0.963, 0.985, 1.0625, 1.1875, 1.325, 1.4375, 1.92, 2.473, 2.6, 2.750, 2.82, 3.027 MaxInletTemperature=120 TSFCM0=0.76 TSFCM1=0.88 AfterburnerTSFC=1.86 .... [LeftStabilizer] SystemType=CONTROL_SURFACE InputName=PITCH_CONTROL MovingSurface=TRUE MaxDeflection=15 MinDeflection=-35 ControlRate=4.4 ModelNodeName=Left_Elevator ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE MaxControlSpeed=205.8 [RightStabilizer] SystemType=CONTROL_SURFACE InputName=PITCH_CONTROL MovingSurface=TRUE MaxDeflection=15 MinDeflection=-35 ControlRate=4.4 ModelNodeName=Right_Elevator ReverseModelOrientation=FALSE MaxControlSpeed=205.8 [LeftAileron] / [RightAileron] SystemType=CONTROL_SURFACE InputName=ROLL_CONTROL RotationAxis=X-AXIS MaxDeflection=20.0 MinDeflection=-20.0 ..... [LeftRudder]/ [RightRudder] SystemType=CONTROL_SURFACE InputName=YAW_CONTROL ReverseInput=TRUE MaxDeflection=25.0 MinDeflection=-25.0 Quote
+Spillone104 Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 Mmmm....interesting. Could you put a DATA.INI file? Thanks Quote
EricJ Posted December 16, 2008 Posted December 16, 2008 And also reference which Mig-29 to use? Quote
Silverbolt Posted December 16, 2008 Posted December 16, 2008 (edited) thanks! i think it's very usefull! i think maybe after a tailslide it should have a delay to gain energy(just my 2 cents after play Lomac) btw, you are making an 29BM right? could you give us a preview? *FM Set to normal Edited December 16, 2008 by Silverbolt Quote
+lindr2 Posted December 16, 2008 Author Posted December 16, 2008 (edited) i still working on this latest changes : MIG_29BM_DATA.rar unfixed plane (early version) for test, sorry no readme yet http://rapidshare.com/files/171508764/MIG-29BM.rar Edited December 16, 2008 by lindr2 Quote
EricJ Posted December 16, 2008 Posted December 16, 2008 I got to apologize... been under some business and drama. So apologize if I came off as curt, no offense taken and sorry about that one.. Quote
EricJ Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 Nah, lindr2 thought I was ordering him around, so no. Reason I always ask for stuff to be uploaded or Pm'd is because the MWR computers here block Rapidshare. Quote
+lindr2 Posted December 17, 2008 Author Posted December 17, 2008 (edited) Nah, lindr2 thought I was ordering him around, so no. Reason I always ask for stuff to be uploaded or Pm'd is because the MWR computers here block Rapidshare. HOW about filefactory, depositfiles, sendspace.com ? I have 2Mbit/sec upload channnel, no problem to create mirror. I don't like upload unfinished work to CA download section. P.S. Downloads: 24 Last Download: 17.12.2008 13:24:36 Edited December 17, 2008 by lindr2 Quote
EricJ Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 That's cool, I'd rather wait for the final result Quote
+Spillone104 Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 Finally a real dogfighter to splash those damn F-15 and 16 out of the skyes. Thanks lindr2 Quote
orsin Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) All, Here is my modified version of FM for MIG 29G based on lindr2's BM FM. Lindr2's model is cool of course, but the roll control is abit too loose and slow. Through tinkering the flight control I have achieved below FM for you to try out. It is slightly advantageous compare to WOI stock F16 (You get a stable 360 degree turn at 5000m in around 20 seconds), and the roll control is as agile as the stock f-16. I have also verified this FM on AI and I found it make MIG 29G very dangerous enemies. Please feel free to let me know your opinion. Insky_orsin Edited January 9, 2009 by orsin Quote
+kreelin Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Here is my modified version of FM for MIG 29G based on lindr2's BM FM. Lindr2's model is cool of course, but the roll control is abit too loose and slow.... Hey Orsin, I didn't try Lindr2's 29 FM but what I can say is this bird doesn't have a high roll rate in real life and I'm sure Lindr2 knows that Quote
+lindr2 Posted January 9, 2009 Author Posted January 9, 2009 Hey Orsin, I didn't try Lindr2's 29 FM but what I can say is this bird doesn't have a high roll rate in real life and I'm sure Lindr2 knows that making FM is very difficulct thing, i have Mig-29 aerodinamic book, but main problem is converting data. I only sure about: (i took values directly from book) - Control surfaces angles - Control surfaces angles rate - Lift coefficients - Drag coefficients - Engine Tables - speed values CDLAlpha table NOT present on book, but CLAAlpha table present, Also lot of some others graph exsist, i have no idea yet how to convert this in TW FM format. Any help WELCOMED! THANKS! Quote
+76.IAP-Blackbird Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Hey lindr 2 do you have some interest in redo a nice FM for the Ye-152 Mod??? Quote
+lindr2 Posted January 9, 2009 Author Posted January 9, 2009 Hey lindr 2 do you have some interest in redo a nice FM for the Ye-152 Mod??? Do you have Ye-152 pilot manual? Quote
+76.IAP-Blackbird Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Nope but you have some good experiance good fantasy and a passion for detail! Only if you like;-) Quote
orsin Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) making FM is very difficulct thing, i have Mig-29 aerodinamic book, but main problem is converting data. I only sure about: (i took values directly from book) - Control surfaces angles - Control surfaces angles rate - Lift coefficients - Drag coefficients - Engine Tables - speed values CDLAlpha table NOT present on book, but CLAAlpha table present, Also lot of some others graph exsist, i have no idea yet how to convert this in TW FM format. Any help WELCOMED! THANKS! Hi Lindr2, thanks for the reply. the main focuses of my modification from your version are 1. roll control 2. the stabilizers 1. Roll control. I'm sure the data you quote from the book is much more accurate compare to my imagination based on in-game performance. But I still believe the roll control of your BM FM need a fix. That is because the game engine may present us a very different specification for the right input of FM data. I tested you FM and found MIG 29 can easily drop into a low speed (IAS<300KMH) envelop, where the efforts of aileron cannot beat the tendency of rolling the plane back to Horizonal plane in X-axis. in the meantime, Mig 29 has a roll rate of <10 degrees/second in that envelope. I have watch various MIG 29s in live air shows in china and I believe that does not represent the reality. one additional question is whether the stabilizers of Mig 29 get involved in the roll control. I have no information about it, but i believe they do because mig-23 already has a pair of stabilizers that do it. So you might want to add below lines to your {left/rightstabilizer} SecondaryInputName=ROLL_CONTROL SecondaryInputFactor=0.xx 2. Stabilizers The stabilizers are given realistic deflection angles in you FM definition, that enables mig 29 to perform high AoA maneuvers. However WOX AI cannot handle this well and it keeps making mig29 fall into the envelope that I mentioned above. I believe in real life mig29 pilot will not perform those high AoAs frequently as they suck off lots of energy. I have limited the deflection angle to 10 degrees and found my wingman mig29s already upperdogs WOI stock f-16 under hard settings. Insky_orsin Edited January 10, 2009 by orsin Quote
orsin Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) I have noticed the ailerons of Lindr2's FM are rotating at wrong direction and below is a fix based on my FM updated yesterday. I have also put the stabilizers into roll control. Insky_orsin Edited January 10, 2009 by orsin Quote
+lindr2 Posted January 10, 2009 Author Posted January 10, 2009 You are right about roll control, i will try you FM, But to more work need to do (MiG-29(9-12),(9-13),(9-13s),(9-15),(9-31),(9-41)) FM also WIP. MIG-29 9-12 Fulcrem-A data (for reference) Lenght = 17.32 m height = 4.73m gear base=3.645m wing area 38.056m2 span=11.36m chord=3.768 elongation=3.39 cotraction=4.15 v angle=-3 wing angle on front =42deg wing angle on fuselage=73.5deg autocontrolsurface on wing ('noski' on russian - sorry can't translate) area=2.35m2 chord=12% angle=-20 Flaps area=2.84m2 lenght=1.93m2 Max algle=25 Aileronns area=1.45m anlgle=-+20 neitral position=+5 Horiz stab area=7.05m2 lenght=7.78m2 chord=1.807m2 elongation=2.65 cotraction=2.34 v angle=-3.5Deg angle on front =45deg pitch control angle = +15 -35 Roll control angle = +5 -5 Vertical stab area=10.1m2 chord=2.208m2 elongation=1.44 cotraction=5.0 controlsurface area=1.25m2 angle on front =47.5deg Control angle=-+25 Air Brakes (2 brakes top bottom) Top Br area=0.75m2 Bottom Br area=0.55m2 empty mass = 10900 KG normal loadout=15180kg With CFT=15675kg Max loadout=16710kg internal fuel amount=3300kg (if fuel mass 1lt=0.785kg, can be 0.785-0.845) - 4300lt CFT fuel = 1175kg SLspeed=1550kmph maxspeed=2.35M ceiling=18000m accelerate time 1km altitude 600kmph-1100kmph- 13.5sec 1100-1300 - 8.7 sec Takeoff speed-260-280kmph landing speeg=250-260kmph Quote
ronan Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 Can this MiG go faster dan only 660 kts? when i fly the Fulcrum it can't go faster than that. i have edited the maximum speed en mach but no results. Quote
+lindr2 Posted January 10, 2009 Author Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) Send PM to krizis (it's member name) about this, he working ~ half year with new MiG-25 & MiG-23 FM, he said 'reach 2.2Mach on MiG-23&25' Edited January 10, 2009 by lindr2 Quote
+76.IAP-Blackbird Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 lindr2 this sounds interesting, but MF is working on the new MiG-29, only needs a FM, I would wait with your work until this bird is ready caue the new 3D body is a blast! Quote
+lindr2 Posted January 10, 2009 Author Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) About control rates - it's not easy question According book: stabilizer Max control rate 38 deg/sec but on Mig-29 stabilizer contolled by computer. The stabilizer is controled depending on an angle of a deviation of a control handle under the nonlinear law, the description of algorithm with charts takes 18 pages. Manual control rate is 2.2-5.18 Deg/sec. Automatic control rate is 4.4-10.36 Deg/sec max contol speed ~ 1500 KMph -> i set 416 m/s ailerons Max control rate 38 deg/sec. Description of algorithm with charts takes 8 pages. Manual control rate is 2.4 Deg/sec. Automatic control rate is 4.8 Deg/sec max contol speed ~ 1000-1100 KMph -> i set 305 m/s rudder Max control rate 39-62 deg/sec depending on hydraulic pressure. Description of algorithm with charts takes 7 pages. Сontrol rate is 2.0 Deg/sec on SL max contol speed ~ 1.2M on altitude 5km ~ 1.6M, 10km ~ 2.2M -> i set 546 m/s i can get link, but book on russian. Edited January 10, 2009 by lindr2 Quote
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