MiG-29 new FM

[+lindr2 19]

I work at new FM for MiG-29 family MiG-29BM in this moment, using ORIGINAL MANUALS

 

Avionics.ini changes is complited. New Hud made. Loadout corrected. FT PTB-1150 present in my WP.

 

What's changed in DATa.ini for new FM (for testing, i need your comments) WIP

 

[Fuselage]

.....

CD0MachTableNumData=7

CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.40

CD0MachTableStartX=0.00

CD0MachTableData=1.413, 1.000, 0.876, 5.998, 3.110, 2.768, 9.483

;CD0MachTableData=1.275,1.000,0.991,46.549,48.253

CDLAlphaTableNumData=15

CDLAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00

CDLAlphaTableStartX=-28.00

CDLAlphaTableData=143.365,90.282,52.247,26.750,11.285,3.344,0.418,0.000,0.418,3.344,11.285,26.750,52.247,90.282,143.365

.....

[LeftWing] / [RightWing]

....

CLa=1.0

;1.1915

CD0=0.0025

CDL=0.0035

;Cmq=-0.8369

;Cmad=-0.8878

Cmq=-0.1369

Cmad=-0.01878

.......

CLaMachTableNumData=25

CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.10

;CLaMachTableNumData=5

;CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.40

CLaMachTableStartX=0.00

CLaMachTableData=1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.4, 1.3, 1.1, 1.0, 0.85, 0.78, 0.75, 0.72, 0.71, 0.7, 0.67, 0.62, 0.6, 0.58, 0.52, 0.48, 0.42, 0.39, 0.35

CD0MachTableNumData=13

CD0MachTableStartX=0.00

CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.20

CD0MachTableData=1.0, 1.0, 0.96, 0.92, 0.92, 1.6, 2.0, 1.92, 1.88, 1.74, 1.7, 1.66, 1.6

;CD0MachTableNumData=5

;CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.40

;CD0MachTableData=1.792,1.000,1.081,6.048,6.254

.....

 

// Engines ---------------------------------------------------------

 

[Engine1]

ReferenceName=Sarkisov RD-33

SystemType=JET_ENGINE

InputName=THROTTLE_CONTROL

EngineID=1

HasAfterburner=TRUE

NumAfterburnerStages=4

SLThrustDry=53380.00

SLThrustWet=81220.00

....

;AltitudeTableNumData=10

;AltitudeTableDeltaX=3048.0

;AltitudeTableData=1.000,0.802,0.634,0.496,0.381,0.288,0.206,0.147,0.105,0.000

AltitudeTableNumData=15

AltitudeTableDeltaX=2000.0

AltitudeTableStartX=0.0

AltitudeTableData=1.000, 0.921, 0.802, 0.699, 0.66, 0.585, 0.471, 0.283, 0.24, 0.206, 0.17,0.135,0.105,0.065,0.000

;DryMachTableNumData=4

;DryMachTableDeltaX=0.4

;DryMachTableData=1.000,0.980,1.172,0.000

DryMachTableNumData=6

DryMachTableDeltaX=0.2

DryMachTableStartX=0.0

DryMachTableData=1.000, 0.922, 0.90, 0.922, 1.00, 1.05

;WetMachTableNumData=7

;WetMachTableDeltaX=0.4

;WetMachTableData=1.000,0.991,1.207,1.683,2.473,2.750,3.027

WetMachTableNumData=13

WetMachTableDeltaX=0.2

WetMachTableStartX=0.0

WetMachTableData=1.000, 0.963, 0.985, 1.0625, 1.1875, 1.325, 1.4375, 1.92, 2.473, 2.6, 2.750, 2.82, 3.027

MaxInletTemperature=120

TSFCM0=0.76

TSFCM1=0.88

AfterburnerTSFC=1.86

....

 

[LeftStabilizer]

SystemType=CONTROL_SURFACE

InputName=PITCH_CONTROL

MovingSurface=TRUE

MaxDeflection=15

MinDeflection=-35

ControlRate=4.4

ModelNodeName=Left_Elevator

ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE

MaxControlSpeed=205.8

 

[RightStabilizer]

SystemType=CONTROL_SURFACE

InputName=PITCH_CONTROL

MovingSurface=TRUE

MaxDeflection=15

MinDeflection=-35

ControlRate=4.4

ModelNodeName=Right_Elevator

ReverseModelOrientation=FALSE

MaxControlSpeed=205.8

 

[LeftAileron] / [RightAileron]

SystemType=CONTROL_SURFACE

InputName=ROLL_CONTROL

RotationAxis=X-AXIS

MaxDeflection=20.0

MinDeflection=-20.0

.....

[LeftRudder]/ [RightRudder]

SystemType=CONTROL_SURFACE

InputName=YAW_CONTROL

ReverseInput=TRUE

MaxDeflection=25.0

MinDeflection=-25.0

[+Spillone104 553]

Mmmm....interesting.

Could you put a DATA.INI file?

 

Thanks

[+EricJ 4,215]

And also reference which Mig-29 to use?

[Silverbolt 104]

thanks!

i think it's very usefull!

i think maybe after a tailslide it should have a delay to gain energy(just my 2 cents after play Lomac)

 

btw, you are making an 29BM right?

could you give us a preview?

 

*FM Set to normal

Edited December 16, 2008 by Silverbolt

[+lindr2 19]

i still working on this

 

latest changes :

 

MIG_29BM_DATA.rar

 

unfixed plane (early version) for test, sorry no readme yet

 

http://rapidshare.com/files/171508764/MIG-29BM.rar

Edited December 16, 2008 by lindr2

[+EricJ 4,215]

Would you mind PMing me it lindr2?

[+EricJ 4,215]

I got to apologize... been under some business and drama. So apologize if I came off as curt, no offense taken and sorry about that one..

[Silverbolt 104]

so....you got the fulcrum?

[+EricJ 4,215]

Nah, lindr2 thought I was ordering him around, so no. Reason I always ask for stuff to be uploaded or Pm'd is because the MWR computers here block Rapidshare.

[+lindr2 19]

Nah, lindr2 thought I was ordering him around, so no. Reason I always ask for stuff to be uploaded or Pm'd is because the MWR computers here block Rapidshare.

 

HOW about filefactory, depositfiles, sendspace.com ? I have 2Mbit/sec upload channnel, no problem to create mirror.

 

I don't like upload unfinished work to CA download section.

 

P.S. Downloads: 24 Last Download: 17.12.2008 13:24:36

Edited December 17, 2008 by lindr2

[+EricJ 4,215]

That's cool, I'd rather wait for the final result

[+Spillone104 553]

Finally a real dogfighter to splash those damn F-15 and 16 out of the skyes.

 

Thanks lindr2

[orsin 160]

All,

 

Here is my modified version of FM for MIG 29G based on lindr2's BM FM. Lindr2's model is cool of course, but the roll control is abit too loose and slow. Through tinkering the flight control I have achieved below FM for you to try out. It is slightly advantageous compare to WOI stock F16 (You get a stable 360 degree turn at 5000m in around 20 seconds), and the roll control is as agile as the stock f-16. I have also verified this FM on AI and I found it make MIG 29G very dangerous enemies.

 

Please feel free to let me know your opinion.

 

 

Insky_orsin

Edited January 9, 2009 by orsin

[+kreelin 2]

Here is my modified version of FM for MIG 29G based on lindr2's BM FM. Lindr2's model is cool of course, but the roll control is abit too loose and slow....

 

 

Hey Orsin, I didn't try Lindr2's 29 FM but what I can say is this bird doesn't have a high roll rate in real life and I'm sure Lindr2 knows that

[+lindr2 19]

Hey Orsin, I didn't try Lindr2's 29 FM but what I can say is this bird doesn't have a high roll rate in real life and I'm sure Lindr2 knows that

 

making FM is very difficulct thing, i have Mig-29 aerodinamic book, but main problem is converting data. I only sure about:

 

(i took values directly from book)

 

- Control surfaces angles

 

- Control surfaces angles rate

 

- Lift coefficients

 

- Drag coefficients

 

- Engine Tables

 

- speed values

 

CDLAlpha table NOT present on book, but CLAAlpha table present, Also lot of some others graph exsist, i have no idea yet how to convert this in TW FM format.

 

Any help WELCOMED! THANKS!

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

Hey lindr 2 do you have some interest in redo a nice FM for the Ye-152 Mod???

[+lindr2 19]

Hey lindr 2 do you have some interest in redo a nice FM for the Ye-152 Mod???

 

Do you have Ye-152 pilot manual?

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

Nope but you have some good experiance good fantasy and a passion for detail! Only if you like;-)

[orsin 160]

making FM is very difficulct thing, i have Mig-29 aerodinamic book, but main problem is converting data. I only sure about:

 

(i took values directly from book)

 

- Control surfaces angles

 

- Control surfaces angles rate

 

- Lift coefficients

 

- Drag coefficients

 

- Engine Tables

 

- speed values

 

CDLAlpha table NOT present on book, but CLAAlpha table present, Also lot of some others graph exsist, i have no idea yet how to convert this in TW FM format.

 

Any help WELCOMED! THANKS!

 

Hi Lindr2, thanks for the reply.

 

the main focuses of my modification from your version are 1. roll control 2. the stabilizers

 

1. Roll control.

I'm sure the data you quote from the book is much more accurate compare to my imagination based on in-game performance. But I still believe the roll control of your BM FM need a fix. That is because the game engine may present us a very different specification for the right input of FM data. I tested you FM and found MIG 29 can easily drop into a low speed (IAS<300KMH) envelop, where the efforts of aileron cannot beat the tendency of rolling the plane back to Horizonal plane in X-axis. in the meantime, Mig 29 has a roll rate of <10 degrees/second in that envelope. I have watch various MIG 29s in live air shows in china and I believe that does not represent the reality.

 

one additional question is whether the stabilizers of Mig 29 get involved in the roll control. I have no information about it, but i believe they do because mig-23 already has a pair of stabilizers that do it. So you might want to add below lines to your {left/rightstabilizer}

 

SecondaryInputName=ROLL_CONTROL

SecondaryInputFactor=0.xx

 

2. Stabilizers

The stabilizers are given realistic deflection angles in you FM definition, that enables mig 29 to perform high AoA maneuvers. However WOX AI cannot handle this well and it keeps making mig29 fall into the envelope that I mentioned above. I believe in real life mig29 pilot will not perform those high AoAs frequently as they suck off lots of energy. I have limited the deflection angle to 10 degrees and found my wingman mig29s already upperdogs WOI stock f-16 under hard settings.

 

Insky_orsin

Edited January 10, 2009 by orsin

[orsin 160]

I have noticed the ailerons of Lindr2's FM are rotating at wrong direction and below is a fix based on my FM updated yesterday. I have also put the stabilizers into roll control.

 

Insky_orsin

Edited January 10, 2009 by orsin

[+lindr2 19]

You are right about roll control, i will try you FM, But to more work need to do (MiG-29(9-12),(9-13),(9-13s),(9-15),(9-31),(9-41)) FM also WIP.

 

MIG-29 9-12 Fulcrem-A data (for reference)

 

Lenght = 17.32 m

height = 4.73m

gear base=3.645m

wing area 38.056m2

span=11.36m

chord=3.768

elongation=3.39

cotraction=4.15

v angle=-3

wing angle on front =42deg

wing angle on fuselage=73.5deg

 

autocontrolsurface on wing ('noski' on russian - sorry can't translate)

 

area=2.35m2

chord=12%

angle=-20

 

Flaps

 

area=2.84m2

lenght=1.93m2

Max algle=25

 

Aileronns

 

area=1.45m

anlgle=-+20

neitral position=+5

 

Horiz stab

 

area=7.05m2

lenght=7.78m2

chord=1.807m2

elongation=2.65

cotraction=2.34

v angle=-3.5Deg

angle on front =45deg

pitch control angle = +15 -35

Roll control angle = +5 -5

 

Vertical stab

 

area=10.1m2

chord=2.208m2

elongation=1.44

cotraction=5.0

controlsurface area=1.25m2

angle on front =47.5deg

Control angle=-+25

 

Air Brakes (2 brakes top bottom)

Top Br area=0.75m2

Bottom Br area=0.55m2

 

empty mass = 10900 KG

normal loadout=15180kg

With CFT=15675kg

Max loadout=16710kg

internal fuel amount=3300kg (if fuel mass 1lt=0.785kg, can be 0.785-0.845) - 4300lt

CFT fuel = 1175kg

 

SLspeed=1550kmph

maxspeed=2.35M

ceiling=18000m

accelerate time 1km altitude 600kmph-1100kmph- 13.5sec

1100-1300 - 8.7 sec

Takeoff speed-260-280kmph

landing speeg=250-260kmph

[ronan 0]

Can this MiG go faster dan only 660 kts? when i fly the Fulcrum it can't go faster than that. i have edited the maximum speed en mach but no results.

[+lindr2 19]

Send PM to krizis (it's member name) about this, he working ~ half year with new MiG-25 & MiG-23 FM, he said 'reach 2.2Mach on MiG-23&25'

Edited January 10, 2009 by lindr2

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

lindr2 this sounds interesting, but MF is working on the new MiG-29, only needs a FM, I would wait with your work until this bird is ready caue the new 3D body is a blast!

[+lindr2 19]

About control rates - it's not easy question

 

According book:

 

stabilizer

 

Max control rate 38 deg/sec but on Mig-29 stabilizer contolled by computer.

The stabilizer is controled depending on an angle of a deviation of a control handle under the nonlinear law, the description of algorithm with charts takes 18 pages.

Manual control rate is 2.2-5.18 Deg/sec. Automatic control rate is 4.4-10.36 Deg/sec

max contol speed ~ 1500 KMph -> i set 416 m/s

 

ailerons

 

Max control rate 38 deg/sec. Description of algorithm with charts takes 8 pages.

 

Manual control rate is 2.4 Deg/sec. Automatic control rate is 4.8 Deg/sec

 

max contol speed ~ 1000-1100 KMph -> i set 305 m/s

 

rudder

 

Max control rate 39-62 deg/sec depending on hydraulic pressure. Description of algorithm with charts takes 7 pages.

 

Сontrol rate is 2.0 Deg/sec

 

on SL max contol speed ~ 1.2M on altitude 5km ~ 1.6M, 10km ~ 2.2M -> i set 546 m/s

 

i can get link, but book on russian.

Edited January 10, 2009 by lindr2