Corner Speed

[Sean_IRA]

question. in the demo while flying those two air craft. there was no corner speed indicator. now for all you that have the full ver. of the sim. do you have a corner speed indicator in your hud display? i have seen some screen shots of the sim, but i never see any indication of a coner speed indicator. dose this sim have that option. because most of the real fighter craft out there have them. i was just wondering since this is a russain made sim and not an american made one. that they more then likely left out that option. am i correct in my assumetion here?

 

 

Sean.

[switch]

...because most of the real fighter craft out there have them...

Where in the real a/c would it be located?!

Edited December 12, 2003 by switch

[Speedbrake]

:D It is located right next to the Bigfoot indicator!

 

There is no such thing as a corner speed indicator!!!

 

First of all corner speed depends on tons of things, mainly altitude and aircraft aerodynamics, then weight, c.g., drag from weapons loadings, etc. Then it is a transit condition - it is not a condition that can be sustained, i.e. you are in the highest negative energy portion of the turn-rate maneuver envelope (doghouse plot) which means you are decelerating through the condition or losing altitude (slicing maneuver) trying to capture it for as long as possible.

 

Edited December 12, 2003 by Speedbrake

[Sean_IRA]

the corner speed indicator is located on the left hand side of your hud where your speed reads out. what happens is when you start to reach 320 to 380 mph you will see a arrow or hash mark, depending upon the craft, that indicates your best turning radious. you want to match up to that mark when your in a tight fight so that your craft can turn on a dime. under that mark and in the turn you lose alt. above that mark and your turn radious is too large. understand? that's why i'm trying to find out if lomac has included this feature in it's new sim or not. it's a very important factor in flying in combat.

 

 

Sean.

[switch]

the corner speed indicator is located on the left hand side of your hud where your speed reads out. what happens is when you start to reach 320 to 380 mph you will see a arrow or hash mark, depending upon the craft, that indicates your best turning radious. you want to match up to that mark when your in a tight fight so that your craft can turn on a dime. under that mark and in the turn you lose alt. above that mark and your turn radious is too large. understand? that's why i'm trying to find out if lomac has included this feature in it's new sim or not. it's a very important factor in flying in combat.

 

 

Sean.

Any specific model, type of a/c you`re talking about?

Edited December 12, 2003 by switch

[switch]

:D   It is located right next to the Bigfoot indicator!

 

There is no such thing as a corner speed indicator!!!

 

First of all corner speed depends on tons of things, mainly altitude and aircraft aerodynamics, then weight, c.g., drag from weapons loadings, etc. Then it is a transit condition - it is not a condition that can be sustained, i.e. you are in the highest negative energy portion of the turn-rate maneuver envelope (doghouse plot) which means you are decelerating through the condition or losing altitude (slicing maneuver) trying to capture it for as long as possible.

 

Although I haven`t seen it myself ;) , with so many types of a/c all over the world,

it`s quite feasible to include that "tickmark" (even for a transit condition).

In any modern a/c the flight computer is perfectly capable of calculating it. It knows your a/c`s weight (fuel, stores, well - you have to jettison them anyway!) and it certainly knows your a/c`s characteristics.

Well, in IMHO checking the tables before the flight would do!

Edited December 13, 2003 by switch

[Cretin]

IMHO...

 

1) Max corner speed, which is what we are talking about, is all about maximum SUSTAINABLE G's. Therefor, watching G's in a turn will tell the story. Above or below max corner speed and the G's you can SUSTAIN will fall off. This holds true regardless of loadout.

 

2) Don't confuse turning radius with rating the nose around. Above max corner speed you'll have a wider turning radius but you can actually rate the nose around FASTER.

 

3) The critical issue is about bringing your nose to bear on the bandit before he can bring his nose to bear on you. That relates directly to how fast you rate the nose around rather than how tightly you turn.

 

4) Turning inside of the bandit may be a critical maneuver at a specific point in time BUT it is not a virtue in and of itself. It depends on the situation. Only if it ultimately contributes to bringing your nose to bear on the bandit first is it valuable in air to air.

 

Thoughts? Comments? My ears are open. What do you think? :-)

[switch]

Cretin, you`re mixing everything into it now. If you want to throw in all the

variables in A-A fight - you need at least 50 pages.

Corner Speed - pure and simple:

Smallest radius + Highest turn rate (it`s a compromise for both)

Edited December 12, 2003 by switch

[Cretin]

Guilty as charged, switch. :-)

 

I would, however, beg to differ regarding one point. Maintaining max corner speed will result in the smallest turn radius. That is really the only reason we are interested in max corner speed, to achieve the smallest turn radius. RATE of turn is an entirely different matter.

 

To be specific regarding "rating the nose around", I am referring to how many degrees of change the nose can sweep through in a given amount of time. The more degrees per second, let's say, the faster one is "rating the nose around". Given an arc of, say, 20 degrees, speeds well above max corner speed will traverse that arc much faster than if one maintains max corner speed. So the actions required of the pilot to achieve the smallest turning radius can be quite different from the actions required of the pilot in order to rate the nose around as quickly as possible.

 

Who cares? Well, if you are 20 degrees away from being able to achieve lock or 20 degrees away from being able to bring guns to bear you'll probably care a lot! Looking at things from a defensive perspective, knowing how to rate the nose around as quickly as possible can, without question, keep you from taking one up the pipe. Hit it for maybe 20 degrees then stabilize for a bit. It can keep you just outside of lock and guns. Keep doing that and, if you have superior speed, you can extend and live.

 

As to max corner speed.... just plain max corner speed, all one has to do is to watch the G's in the turn. We are looking for the place where we achieve the highest SUSTAINABLE G's.

 

Next time I'll try to be more long winded. :-) It's just that I am really interested in this kind of thing and it really can be the edge that makes the kill or keeps you from becoming toast.

 

I yield the floor to my respected Brothers. Amen. :-)

Edited December 12, 2003 by Cretin

[Sean_IRA]

hey, look. this is simple fellas. dose lomac come with a corner speed indicator. i already understand whats all envolved within the turn itself. i just want to know if i jump into an american craft in lomac. am i going to have a coener speed indicator. it's that simple people. either yes, or no will do.

 

 

Sean. :(

[Indy_BIA]

No. There you go :D

[switch]

Am I still at UBI`s? ;) Oh, OK

[Cretin]

Switch, you're a stitch. :)

 

Indy BIA: Thank you.

 

Sean IRA: I plead the "too much coffee" defense. Ok, ok, no defense.

[Dweeb]

Guys,

 

Corner speeds for the LOMAC aircraft are provided in the recent SimHQ article at this location:

 

http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_097a.html

 

Enjoy...

 

Dweeb

[Cretin]

Yeah, saw that, Dweeb. Pretty kewl as it is sim specific and compares with how other sims have been set up. ;)

[switch]

Yes, it is very sim "specific" ;) but can`t really argue with the guy without

having tested F4SP3 against all the tables.

But I just got motivated! (let`s see for how long)

I happen to have an F-16C,D dash 1 manual. About one third of it contains nothing

but performance graphs and tables. Time permitting, I`m going to set up some

test flights and see how close F4BMS1 gets to the real thing. I`ve been planning

to do this for a long time but I guess I was just too busy playing it :D

Something to do before Lomac patch comes out.

[Cretin]

Alright, switch! Go for it!

[SDirickson]

If I remember correctly, the F-16 does have a corner speed indicator that is displayed on the airspeed tape in the HUD. Now, I can't tell you about LO-MAC. I'm just saying some aircraft do have it.