About Spads

[Olham 164]

According to my data, the S.E.5a beat the SPAD XIII about 5 km/h in speed; not much, but she was the fastest.

But if it was about weight - why didn't they use two Lewis? Was the Lewis less good?

Edited June 25, 2009 by Olham

[Hasse Wind 46]

Yes, it actually seems that the SE.5a was a little bit faster than the Spad XIII, but only about 4-5 km/h. But my limited sources don't mention if that was some special version of the Se with a more powerful engine. So maybe the Spad XIII was faster most of the time before they improved the SE.5a. I've only flown the SE once in quick combat and never in campaign - I really must give it a try some day!

 

Olham, as far as I know (which isn't that far really!), Lewises were always drum-fed. It would most likely have been too bothersome to have two such MGs in front of the pilot. But this is just guessing really. I'm sure somebody will soon enlighten us some more. :yes:

[Olham 164]

You might be right there about the Lewis. tttiger would know, but I don't see him recently.

 

About the S.E.5a: it was not a special craft - all S.E.5a where that fast. The best fighter, if you need to run.

That's why I think, that Werner Voss didn't even have the chance to run away in his Fokker Dr.1 - it was

some 37 km/h slower than the S.E.5a, and these even came chasing down - he had to take them on.

[Pips 5]

Ball did indeed have an influence on armament. Originally the intention was to equip the Se.5 with just a Vickers, Ball pushed for the addition of the Lewis.

 

As regards speed, well there is always some contention on this issue. The sources I use are the Windsock datafile for the Se.5/a and Davilla's "French Aircraft of the First World War" for the SPAD. And those figures are:

 

Se.5 - 150hp

116mph (187km/h) @ 10,000ft (3048m)

105mph (169km/h) @ 15,000ft (4572m)

 

Se.5a - 200hp

126mph (203km/h) @ 10,000ft (3048m)

116mph (187km/h) @ 15,000ft (4572m)

 

SPAD VII - 150hp

180km/h (111mph) @ 3000m (9,840ft)

174km/h (108mph) @ 4000m (13,120ft)

 

SPAD VII - 180hp

204km/h (126mph) @ 3000m (9,840ft)

200km/h (124mph) @ 4000m (13,120ft)

 

SPAD XIII - 200hp

206km/h (128mph) @ 3000m (9,840ft)

201km/h (125mph) @ 4000m (13,120ft)

190km/h (118mph) @ 5000m (16,400ft)

 

SPAD XIII - 220hp

211km/h (131mph) @ 3000m (9,840ft)

207km/h (128mph) @ 4000m (13,120ft)

195km/h (121mph) @ 5000m (16,400ft)

 

The 180hp SPAD VII was widely produced in 1917, and was the equal of the Se.5a 200hp in terms of speed and climb. The SPAD XIII was both faster (marginal) and had a better climb rate at all levels. There was also a SPAD XIII with a supercharged 220hp Hspano-Suiza that topped out at 220km/h (137mph) at 3000m (9,840ft). But that wasn't in widespread use.

 

NB: Sealevel speeds for all aircraft are higher, but I haven't included them as they have little bearing in general combat operational use. If your caught down that low your probably in very serious Trouble. :)

[SirMike1983 3]

Pips-- that's the coventional numbers I've seen: the Se5a is very fast, but the Spad XIII is marginally faster. The difference is in the handling, where the Se5a is a much more forgiving and solid platform. The Spad XIII was known as a high-strung, tricky aircraft to fly. Cole Palen often would remark on the poor ground handling and low speed handling of the XIII.

 

 

What I'd love to see in OFF (but will never happen) is the Nieuport 29: the fight on the way to the front to replace the Spads when the war ended. It was considered to be a very fine aircraft all around-- possessing greater speed than the Spad, but also having much better turning ability and climb. It's a shame the aircraft never saw service. I'd love to see a Nieuport 29 vs Fokker D.VII and D.VIII match up in some "what if" missions.

[Olham 164]

Ooops - so much for Wikipedia.

 

SirMike - "What if" missions are not a bad idea, I'd say (like IL2 1946). This way, the "original" sim

would remain historical, while the added on What If missions could show, what would have come.

Perhaps in a Phase 5 ?

[SirMike1983 3]

Ooops - so much for Wikipedia.

 

SirMike - "What if" missions are not a bad idea, I'd say (like IL2 1946). This way, the "original" sim

would remain historical, while the added on What If missions could show, what would have come.

Perhaps in a Phase 5 ?

 

Maybe sooner than that-- all you'd really need is the N.29 and the Snipe to face off against the D.VII and D.VIII. The D.VIII and D.VII will be featured in the game from what I can tell, I'm not sure about the Snipe, and a 3rd party might be able to do the N29. So really it's only 1-2 aircraft away from being a reality, since the game itself already has many of the 1918 era planes you could fly after November 11, 1918.

 

As an aside, the N.29 in early form clocked in with a top speed over 140 mph, and approaching 150 mph (over 10 mph faster than a maxed out Spad 13), but also possessed excellent turning capabilities. (a stripped version in 1920 reached around 170 mph, winning the Gordon Bennett Trophy). It also packed a pair of machine guns, a 300hp engine and was very sturdy. I've never seen an N.29 in any sim, but it would appear to be the penultimate WW1 scout development, missing service by only a few days (the first batch was in transport to French squadrons when the war ended). I've long believed that had the war gone on another couple of months, that the N.29 would have outclassed the D.VII. But we'll never know for sure. "What if" would sure be fun to see.

Edited June 26, 2009 by SirMike1983