Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted July 6, 2009 Gents, The bi-annual WWI aircraft fly-in will again be held at the National Museum of the Air Force in Dayton, Ohio from September 25-27, 2009. The three-day World War I Dawn Patrol Rendezvous features vintage original and reproduction WWI aircraft, radio-controlled models, era automobiles, period re-enactors and a collector's show. I live in Dayton and plan to be at the show on at least two of the three days. I hope that other members of the forum, as well as WWI enthusiasts in general, will be able to join me. If anyone would like information about travel directions, accommodations, and dining, please be sure to let me know by PM or on this thread. Here are some pictures from past shows: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted July 6, 2009 First Jimko showed his pics from the Shuttleworth Collection; now you announce another WW1 veteran airshow; and I realise, we seem to have very little like that here in Germany. In a friendly way I envy you. PS: but please send pictures! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DukeIronHand 8 Posted July 6, 2009 (edited) I live about 2 hours from Dayton and have been meaning to go to this for years but it seems RL stuff always pops up. Stupid work - stupid RL Edited July 6, 2009 by DukeIronHand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hauksbee 103 Posted July 6, 2009 ...have been meaning to go to this for years but it seems RL stuff always pops up. "Life is what happens when you're making plans." Woody Allen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted July 6, 2009 RL stuff??? Hey, didn't they even have a Focke Wulf 190 D9 in Dayton, Ohio? (So who said, there's only miles of corn?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted July 6, 2009 For Olham, The Fw 190D-9 on display was assigned to the JG3 "Udet" Geschwader. One of the Luftwaffe's most famous fighter units, JG3 was named for Ernst Udet, Germany's leading ace to survive World War I. The airplane, captured and brought to the United States for testing at the end of WWII, is on loan from the Smithsonian Institution's National Air and Space Museum. TECHNICAL NOTES: Armament: Two 20mm MG 151 cannons in wings and two 13mm MG 131 machine guns in nose Engine: Junkers Jumo 213 of 2,240 hp with methanol-water injection Maximum speed: 426 mph Cruising speed: 280 mph Range: 520 miles Ceiling: 40,000 ft. Span: 34 ft. 5 1/3 in. Length: 33 ft. 5 1/4 in. Height: 11 ft. 1/4 in. Weight: 10,670 lbs. combat-loaded Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted July 6, 2009 More: The German Me 163, a rocket-powered defensive fighter, was one of the most unusual aircraft of World War II. Fortunately, its potential impact was minimized by technical problems and the small number produced. The Me 163 was the end result of a long line of tailless research aircraft designed by Dr. Alexander Lippisch. The first Me 163A prototypes were tested in 1941, but powered flight testing of the more advanced Me 163B was delayed until August 1943 due to engine and fuel problems. Although the Komet's rocket engine gave it a exceptional climb rate, range was severely limited by its high fuel consumption. Furthermore, the fuels used were extremely hazardous and sometimes exploded without warning, killing a number of pilots. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted July 6, 2009 Finally: Developed from a 1938 design by the Messerschmitt company, the Me 262 Schwalbe was the world's first operational turbojet aircraft. First flown under jet power on July 18, 1942, it proved much faster than conventional airplanes. Development problems (particularly its temperamental engines), Allied bombings and cautious Luftwaffe leadership contributed to delays in quantity production. On July 25, 1944, an Me 262 became the first jet airplane used in combat when it attacked a British photo-reconnaissance Mosquito flying over Munich. As a fighter, the German jet scored heavily against Allied bomber formations. U.S. Army Air Forces bombers, however, destroyed hundreds of Me 262s on the ground. Of the more than 1,400 Me 262s produced, fewer than 300 saw combat. Most Me 262s did not make it to operational units because of the destruction of Germany's surface transportation system. Many of those that did were unable to fly because of lack of fuel, spare parts or trained pilots. TECHNICAL NOTES: Armament: Four 30mm MK-108 cannons and 1,000 lbs. of bombs Engines: Two Junkers Jumo 004s of 1,980 lbs. thrust each Maximum speed: 540 mph Cruising speed: 460 mph Range: 650 miles Ceiling: 38,000 ft. Span: 41 ft. Length: 34 ft. 9 in. Height: 11 ft. 4 in. Weight: 15,600 lbs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Velvet 1 Posted July 6, 2009 As a former Dayton resident, I stumbled upon the Dawn Patrol Rendevious about 15 years back. They had a Brisfit fly in and several DR1s (one with a real rotary). It was really awesome. Plus the Airforce musuem is a must see. Hopefully my Buckeye football tickets fall on the same weekend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted July 6, 2009 Geez - all these beauties! Sigh - so far the way to Dayton... The "Komet's" fuel was even worse - it had two tanks, for B-Stoff and C-Stoff I think to remember. They reacted, when they got injected together and got sprayed with water. Unfortunately, one of them also reacted with the pilot's body, if there was a leakage. And that happened some times. Thank you for those wonderful pics - and keep "our" fighters in good shape. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Velvet 1 Posted July 6, 2009 (edited) If I remember correctly, the Canadians who were restoring the Me-163 found evidence of sabatoge in the wing. So that particular one may have been extra hazardous to fly. From Wikipedia: "Me 163 B, Werknummer 191095 is held at the USAFM and was gifted from the National Aviation Museum, Ottawa in 1999. It was placed on display at the National Museum of the United States Air Force near Dayton, Ohio on 10 December 1999. The aircraft had been owned and restored by the Canadian National Aviation Museum. Komet test pilot Rudolf "Rudi" Opitz was on hand for the dedication of the aircraft and discussed his experiences of flying the rocket-propelled fighter to a standing room only crowd. During the aircraft's restoration in Canada it was discovered that the aircraft had been assembled by French "forced labourers" who had deliberately sabotaged it by placing sharp objects between the rocket's fuel tanks and its supporting straps. There are also indications that the wing was improperly assembled. Inside the fuselage was found patriotic French writing. The aircraft is displayed without any unit identification or Werk Nummer." Edited July 6, 2009 by Velvet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted July 7, 2009 A former Daytonian! There are a lot of them now, unfortunately. From the Air Force Museum web page: "Inside the aircraft's skin are these words, perhaps written by a defiant French laborer: "Manufacture Ferme" means "Plant Closed." "Mon coeur est en chomage" translated directly means "My heart is not occupied" (as opposed to France being occupied by the Germans)." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted July 7, 2009 Olham, I can't imagine the bravery of those pilots, to strap themselves in front of two tanks of extremely corrosive and explosive chemicals. You wonder if they fully knew or were told how dangerous it was to fly the Komet! It is too bad about the great distances involved in order to see all of the things we would like to see. Maybe if we started an exchange program? You can come over to see our collection of WWI and WWII airplanes, and I can come over to Germany and see the frauleins and drink your wonderful beer! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duce Lewis 3 Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) Would love to get out there Always wanted to see this guy - A36 Apache Early war modification of the Mustang The Allison was a good performer at low altitudes and add some dive brakes... Viola, a high performance dive bomber Think she was the only dive bomber the US Air Corps had in WWII Edited July 7, 2009 by Duce Lewis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) They knew how dangerous the "Komet" was. Some had exploded in test flights, and they had been told to wear special suits, cause otherwise the B-Stoff might react with their skin. They just didn't have much of a choice. In those days, you could not dare to say to your officer: "Herr Major - I'm very sorry, but I don't think this craft is secure enough. I must refuse obediance here and shall NOT fly this machine." They would have shot him. I got the names of the "petrols" wrong - it was "T-Stoff" and C-Stoff" - more about that craft here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIaUk4Mk2ko Much more dangerous for the bombers was the Me 262, propelled by two jet engines. But altogether, bombing raids don't seem to have really stopped industrial production much, nor did they force a political change by hitting the civilians - on either side. Bomber war so had incredible numbers of victims - civil citizens, bomber crew men, and interceptor pilots - without much success in exchange for all that bloodshed. May this video of a terribly shot-up B 17 bomber stand for this rather senseless aspect of warfare. Edited July 7, 2009 by Olham Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
