I shot Hermann Goering down!

[Olham 164]

Oh, the British WW2 pilots would have loved this!

Our mission was to attack Vlisseghem airfield, but I had to remain high up, cause there was a

German combat air patrol returning in their Albatros DVs. The craft where black with a white band

around the fuselage - Jasta 27 - Hermann Goering's Staffel!

 

We had only seen 4 craft first - now, that we attacked them, 6 more came out of the clouds!

And Goering among them! I had just shot the left lower wing off Rudolf Klimke's DV, when future

"Herr Meier" crossed my sight. Now I knew - it's you, I want to send down!

He was pretty well protected through his wingman, and I had to shoot that guy out of the way.

 

Now I was turning with "bigmouth"! We where at about 9.000 feet, and the SPAD didn't turn bad.

I pulled throttle back (something the real pilot couldn't have done, I think), and drifted into his

turn without stalling. He got the first burst. That must have been a terrible hit, cause now his

tail end was hanging lower, as if he tried to climb, but couldn't. I climbed away for a second attack.

When I came round to dive at him, he decided to dive away. But he and I knew, he couldn't go too

steep. He did a wide spiral, but I came into it almost vertical and shot into his cockpit from very close

range. That was it! He seemed to stall backwards into the salty water and disappeared in a huge

splash! Oh, couldn't we make an exception and make it a historical kill?

The above mentioned British pilots would be very grateful, I'm sure.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Olham

[Von Paulus 8]

Instead of Herr Meier you should try to get the corporal.

Maybe we could find him in one of the trenches.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Von Paulus

[Hasse Wind 46]

I remember shooting down the future Herr Reichsmarschall a couple of times in RB, but I've never even seen him in OFF. Nicely done, Olham.

 

Though I'm not so sure about the Brits being grateful for that in the future. Göring was a pretty bad Luftwaffe commander-in-chief (which helped the British), so now they're probably going to get someone better for that position. Maybe Udet, or Kesselring... :yes:

[Von Paulus 8]

Wasn't Udet anti-regime?

[Hasse Wind 46]

Wasn't Udet anti-regime?

 

As far as I know, more like anti-Göring.

[Olham 164]

Udet let himself get caught by the Devil's Offer. His old comrade Goering sent him to

America to get two aeroplanes - one for Germany's studies, and one for Udet.

When Udet had got a high position, and realised, what he was taking part in, he found

himself entangled, and it was too late. Among friends, he said already 1941, that the

war was lost. But the only way out he saw was a bullet.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Olham

[Von Paulus 8]

I see. Thanks for the answer. I only knew that he had killed himself during war.

I bet there were a lot of Germans who were also caught by the Devil's Offer.

[Hasse Wind 46]

Unfortunately most of those generals and admirals who accepted the Devil's Offer didn't see anything terribly wrong with the Nazis until they started to lose the war. There were some notable exceptions of course, people who were willing to risk their lives by scheming against the regime already when everything seemed to going according to Adolf's plans, but there weren't many of them in high-ranking positions. I'm no expert on Udet's Third Reich career, but it seems he was part of the silent majority, though not nearly among the worst ones, and not a fanatic.

[JimAttrill 24]

One mistake Udet did make in the US was to go for dive-bombers. This was ok with the famous JU87 Stuka but made a complete mess when the powers-that-be wanted the He177 to also have a dive bombing capability. This would be rather like designing the B17 to be a dive bomber. Not a good idea.

 

Though sometimes this helped the allies. The Avro Manchester was designed to be a sort-of dive bomber so its airframe was very strong. It eventually became the Lancaster and the rest is history...

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Yes, thankfully Goering was a pompous ass.... and the big H was insane!...had it been down to Mr Rommel and a few other guys doing the job, we would have been in dire straights I'm sure! (well done though on getting him Olham!)

[Wels 2]

Hello Olham,

 

good ! Now try to find some trench soldier named Hitler and try to get him via ground attack ... might mean a better future for all

 

Greetings,

Catfish

[Olham 164]

Hasse Wind: Unfortunately most of those generals and admirals who accepted the Devil's Offer

didn't see anything terribly wrong with the Nazis until they started to lose the war.

 

That is not fully right. Many officers saw very early, that a man played fieldmarshal, who had never

been of higher rank than Gefreiter (which is very low in military hierarchy). The German army was

the Wehrmacht, with military education like everywhere else. Their attitudes towards the state leader

in this time were loyalty and obediance - they where not educated to question this; and so they did

that only slowly and with hesitation. And they hesitated too long.

Hitler knew very well, that they didn't accept his military leadership without pain. And he recruited

from the NSDAP for his aims first the SA (Sturm-Abteilung = Attack Division - the "Brown Hordes")

and among his absolute followers the SS (Schutzstaffel = Safeguard Squadron) - an army besides

the Wehrmacht, with elite soldiers in different uniforms and with the best weapons.

The Wehrmacht often was afraid of them, whereever they appeared.

[Duce Lewis 3]

Udet let himself get caught by the Devil's Offer. His old comrade Goering sent him to

America to get two aeroplanes - one for Germany's studies, and one for Udet.

When Udet had got a high position, and realised, what he was taking part in, he found

himself entangled, and it was too late. Among friends, he said already 1941, that the

war was lost. But the only way out he saw was a bullet.

Better if he'd put that bullet in the li'l corporal's coconut instead

Great job on the victory Olham (in sim & personal ...however small)

[Olham 164]

Thanks, Duce.

I had often wondered myself, why nobody had shot Hitler earlier.

The answer is quite simple: even the highest ranking officers where not

allowed to take their weapons with them, when they met the Fuehrer.

After Stauffenberg's bomb attack (Operation Walkyrie), even the bags

and pockets where searched.

 

PS: I will meet Herr Meier more often, may be. Best he'd fly in a swim suit!

Edited August 19, 2009 by Olham

[Fliegenhund 0]

It is a shame some of the Germans from WW1 got sucked into the Hitler vortex. Reading about Goering landing and shaking the hand of a man he shot down and politely telling him he is a prisoner is an endearing story. Then to see him and his inflated ego (and body) during WW2 parading around with that maniac, you wonder what happened. Shameful too are the ones who got involved and by the time they realized what they were mixed up in they took their own lives. They had no other option.

[Duce Lewis 3]

Thanks, Duce.

I had often wondered myself, why nobody had shot Hitler earlier.

The answer is quite simple: even the highest ranking officers where not

allowed to take their weapons with them, when they met the Fuehrer.

I've heard it said that a catastrophe rarely has a single cause

We humans try to create a set of safeguards that protect against them

It usually takes a perfect storm of many small failures to lead up to a single massive one

 

Often thought Hitler's seduction of Germany was such a perfect storm

The Treaty of Versaille

The weak Bymar Republic

The Brownshirt bullies tolerated to keep the Communists at bay

Winning with only 38% of the vote

The Rhineland & Sudetanland incidences

Economic prosperity then military success and the madman is branded a genius

...probably many more instances of "if only a different path had been taken"

 

Not to oversimplify or excuse individual reponsibilities

But he who doesn't know history is doomed to repeat it

In my short travels to Germany, the folks made a point to speak to me of their history and regrets

Much as you have stated many times here Olham

 

One of the founding principles of America was the elimination of 'debtor's prison'

A son is not punished for the sins of his father (common practice back then)

Sums up my attitude towards Germany's rebirth as a free nation

Contrast this with Japan, where they speak freely of Hiroshima

Yet they know little of Pearl Harbor and deny the Rape of Nanking

...and some think they're ready for nuclear weapons to counter N. Korea

 

Just my litle take on events,

[Olham 164]

Thanks, Duce! Good historical knowledge.

[Hasse Wind 46]

I had often wondered myself, why nobody had shot Hitler earlier.

The answer is quite simple: even the highest ranking officers where not

allowed to take their weapons with them, when they met the Fuehrer.

 

I may be wrong, but wasn't practice of removing personal sidearms when approaching Hitler started only after the Stauffenberg's bomb attack? Before that it wasn't so strict.

 

I think the reason why 99.99% of German general officers were not willing to act directly against the Nazis was that they were brought up in a culture that emphasized obedience to the authorities above all else, no matter what kind of dictators the authorities were. Field Marshal von Manstein was asked to participate in the plot against Hitler, but he refused and replied that "Prussian field marshals don't do things like that!", or something like that, I can't remember the exact words. But the majority of the Wehrmacht generals were no fanatics, they just considered the Nazis as a much better option than the Communists. Wehrmacht's reputation is far from pure, however, as they quite willingly participated in the SS atrocities on the Eastern front. When you rose to a high position in the Nazi system, it was impossible to stay completely out of the crimes, even if you weren't a fanatical Nazi. I think that's what happened to many otherwise decent German officers and men.

[Olham 164]

It seems, I can hope, that Germany has learnt that lesson.

There are of course neo-fashists here, like anywhere else. But recently they tried to demonstrate,

and a whole town stood against them, so they couldn't reach the marketsquare.

But like always: when social peace and general economy gets more and more lost,

a soil gets prepared for such seeds.

[Von Paulus 8]

I've heard it said that a catastrophe rarely has a single cause

We humans try to create a set of safeguards that protect against them

It usually takes a perfect storm of many small failures to lead up to a single massive one

 

Often thought Hitler's seduction of Germany was such a perfect storm

The Treaty of Versaille

The weak Bymar Republic

The Brownshirt bullies tolerated to keep the Communists at bay

Winning with only 38% of the vote

The Rhineland & Sudetanland incidences

Economic prosperity then military success and the madman is branded a genius

...probably many more instances of "if only a different path had been taken"

I think the reason why 99.99% of German general officers were not willing to act directly against the Nazis was that they were brought up in a culture that emphasized obedience to the authorities above all else, no matter what kind of dictators the authorities were. Field Marshal von Manstein was asked to participate in the plot against Hitler, but he refused and replied that "Prussian field marshals don't do things like that!", or something like that, I can't remember the exact words. But the majority of the Wehrmacht generals were no fanatics, they just considered the Nazis as a much better option than the Communists. Wehrmacht's reputation is far from pure, however, as they quite willingly participated in the SS atrocities on the Eastern front. When you rose to a high position in the Nazi system, it was impossible to stay completely out of the crimes, even if you weren't a fanatical Nazi. I think that's what happened to many otherwise decent German officers and men.

 

Fully agree with both. I'd also add something which is more emotional than racional. Fear.

After the "Nacht der langen Messer" we mustn't forget that the Nazi regime became more repressive.

[Hasse Wind 46]

It seems, I can hope, that Germany has learnt that lesson.

 

I think Germany has indeed learnt the lesson - no other country in Europe has had to so thoroughly examine their past and try to understand what went wrong so horribly in one of the oldest centres of civilization. Every nation should deal with the hard and difficult things of their history and try to gain a better understanding of their culture. Too often nations just deny they did anything wrong or could have done something differently.

[Fliegenhund 0]

I think Germany has indeed learnt the lesson - no other country in Europe has had to so thoroughly examine their past and try to understand what went wrong so horribly in one of the oldest centres of civilization. Every nation should deal with the hard and difficult things of their history and try to gain a better understanding of their culture. Too often nations just deny they did anything wrong or could have done something differently.

 

My wife has family members in the deep south of USA. They belong to a certain church I dont want to name because I dont want to offend anyone if they are affiliated. Anyway, these people believe Germany is going to rise up and start a WW3. My wife and I laugh everytime we hear from her aunt, they truly believe this, but I believe the Germans are and will always be one of our strongest allies here in the US.

[Olham 164]

I wish I could tell them: no need to panic.

Wars are out in the western world. Or at least they are only fought between the major companies.

No, Germany has only a defensive army, and only some of the soldiers are professional soldiers;

the rest is doing their army year as a civilians duty only; after that, they study or learn a job.

 

The dangers in our days are developing in Asia, I would say.

[Fliegenhund 0]

I wish I could tell them: no need to panic.

Wars are out in the western world. Or at least they are only fought between the major companies.

No, Germany has only a defensive army, and only some of the soldiers are professional soldiers;

the rest is doing their army year as a civilians duty only; after that, they study or learn a job.

 

The dangers in our days are developing in Asia, I would say.

 

 

True Olham, Asia and the Middle East are the current problem areas. Really only North Korea in Asia, Japan is another one of our strongest allies currently and I think they would attack North Korea tomorrow if they could. My brother in law was married while stationed on Okinawa with the Marines and says the Japanese were very upset with those missile tests.