VERDUN

[stumpjumper 3]

JUST CURIOUS BUT RE THE FORTESSES ASSOCIATED WITH THE BATTLE OF VERdUN MODELED IN THE GAME?

Edited January 2, 2010 by stumpjumper

[Bullethead 12]

JUST CURIOUS BUT RE THE FORTESSES ASSOCIATED WITH THE BATTLE OF VERdUN MODELED IN THE GAME?

 

I've never see them in the game, but I've never looked because I never thought I'd be able to spot them even if they are there. They never had much visible above ground to being with, mostly just a ditch and a couple of pillboxes, hard to see. Then, from contemporary recon photos, the monumental shelling seems to have pretty much erased those traces in short order.

 

Now that's just the ones that were in the front line, like Douaumont and Vaux. Those on other sides of the town came through pretty much OK. You can still see them fairly well in Google Earth, but only traces remain of the main ones in the fighting.

 

Here's my KMZ file of the Verdun forts, if you're interested.

[Waldemar Kurtz 1]

I've looked for them several times and never found them. (there were at least 15 forts within a short distance of the city)

 

they're not modelled anywhere in the game thus far.

 

even after getting shelled continuously, the unsual geometrical shapes are still visible in aerial photographs as it contrasts with the organic shapes of the landscape.

 

maybe something the developers will work on later. the nice thing is that most of the forts had pretty standard designs:

 

the box

the pentagon

and the star (aka the numerous "Citadelles" used in many of the major cities)

 

which could then be inserted, as necessary, into the landscape.

 

all of this and airplanes too? whew, sounds like a lot of work!

 

 

[Duce Lewis 3]

Might try using the TAC to search

There's a Buildings Setting so if they're there, they should be labeled somehow

[stumpjumper 3]

see what i can come up with i hav some basic citdells already done might be fun to add them in and see how much frame rate hit is

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

I do not believe they are in the sim as they are not to be found in the buildings folder. You could use the "lego" approach to fort construction that I've developed for the Dardanelles campaign project:

 

 

 

 

This method makes use of four existing OFF buildings that I simply repainted and then arrange to form the forts as needed.

 

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[Von Paulus 8]

And I was planning to visit the forts in the game.

Oh well, I suppose we can't have all.

[Waldemar Kurtz 1]

that fort looks pretty cool.

 

 

 

 

[+Winder 32]

Historical landmarks will be one of the many new features of P4...

 

 

HTH

 

WM

[Dej 17]

.

 

I do not believe they are in the sim as they are not to be found in the buildings folder. You could use the "lego" approach to fort construction that I've developed for the Dardanelles campaign project:

 

 

 

 

This method makes use of four existing OFF buildings that I simply repainted and then arrange to form the forts as needed.

 

.

 

Hey Lou,

 

What happened with that campaign? Did I miss you finishing it or did it stall? It was looking pretty good.

[stumpjumper 3]

Historical landmarks will be one of the many new features of P4...

 

 

HTH

 

WM

 

 

glad to hear that mark

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

That is great new Winder. I will look forward with much interest to that feature.

 

Dej, it did stall out a bit due to time constraints as well as a lack of early planes to really make the Dardanelles campaign what it was. However, I am sending along my files for the fort to stumpjumper and he may be able to make use of it in one of his mission packs as well. If I do say so myself it is quite neat and has functioning big guns that are lethal to shipping if not knocked out quickly.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

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[Bullethead 12]

even after getting shelled continuously, the unsual geometrical shapes are still visible in aerial photographs as it contrasts with the organic shapes of the landscape.

 

It depends on the date of the photo. I can no longer find the link to it, but I once found a page with 5 or 6 recon pics of Fort Douaumont taken at different times during the battle. Early on, as you say, the ditch was visible as an irregular but fairly large line across the crater field. But in the later stages of the battle, practically no trace of the fort was noticeable. The masonry ditch wall had been pulverised, the ditch had been filled with dirt from the collapsing walls and blown in by shell bursts, and all the upper works were totally smashed. If you looked closely at the later photos, you could see a few small, angular bits here and there amongst the craters, but that was it. If the caption hadn't said it was Fort Douaumont, I'd have thought it was just some other section of trench anywhere along the front.

 

Today, of course, the fort's outline is noticeable again, due to the lawnmowers of the war memorial staff. But they have also dug down to expose parts of the previously underground citadel, which wasn't visible even when the fort was brand new.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

It is really quite amazing, and horrific, just how devastated not only Fort Douaumont was during the fighting, but also all the other major sites of the longest running single battle of WWI: Fort de Vaux, Fort de Souville, Ouvrage de Froideterre, Bois des Caures, Fleury-Devant-Douaumont, and Verdun itself. The small town of Fleury, (which changed hands sixteen times during the course of the fighting), was literally blown off the face of the earth, and to this day is still uninhabitable due to the vast quanities of unexploded ordnance that still exists at and just below grade. Here is a map showing the locations of these various fortifications and towns, for those who are interested:

 

 

 

 

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[themightysrc 5]

Wouldn't it be nice to look over the side of the cockpit and see one of Vauban's edifices underneath you? Ditto the major cathedrals in various French and Belgian towns. Roll on P4...

[Bullethead 12]

It is really quite amazing, and horrific, just how devastated not only Fort Douaumont was during the fighting, but also all the other major sites of the longest running single battle of WWI: Fort de Vaux, Fort de Souville...

 

When I was an FO, I had a mixture of pride and revulsion at the power I held in my hands. I could call down the lightning of Heaven, I could call up the flames of Hell. And if I was in a bad mood, when I was done, not only would you need to revise the map to show the absence of various towns and forests, but also edit the friggin' contour lines. There's something kinda cool about being able to do that by saying a few magic words into a radio, but at the same time, GEEZ!

I find it interesting now to compare Fort Souville in Google Earth to any of the forts on the SW side of town. Souville was pounded just as hard as Douaumont, but because it wasn't lost and retaken by the French at horrendous cost, it hasn't received the same memorialization and clean-up. Today, it's completely overgrown with no trace visible. You only know approximately where it is due to the uploaded Panoramio photos. The SW forts, however, still have their ditches intact. Farm machinery can't cross them, so they stand out as fort-shaped clumps of trees.

Wouldn't it be nice to look over the side of the cockpit and see one of Vauban's edifices underneath you?

 

When I was reading the 3rd Otto Prohaska book, The Two-Headed Eagle where he's in the Austrian air force, he mentioned flying over Palmanova, Italy, and admiring its ancient defenses. So I looked it up and damn, it still looks that way today.

 

But I prefer the looks of the Dutch fortress towns like Heusden and Naarden. The multiple wet ditches are more aesthetically pleasing

[Bullethead 12]

Wouldn't it be nice to look over the side of the cockpit and see one of Vauban's edifices underneath you?

 

I had forgotten how many cool Vauban fortresses were in the area. IIRC, he didn't personally build them all, but had some hand in them, even if it was just approving somebody else's plans once he was the Lord High Fort Builder.

 

Here's my KMZ on Vauban. I particularly recommend Calais (3 separate works), Gravelines (entire town), and Lille and Arras (citadels).

 

You all might have noticed I like to look at forts in Google Earth. I've got other KMZs for them as are interested (PM me), but I need to do more. I've barely scratched the surface of what all's out there. One of these days, I'll put them on a web site.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

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Outstanding shots of those Dutch fortifications BH. They look like works of art when viewed from above.

 

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[Bullethead 12]

Outstanding shots of those Dutch fortifications BH.

 

I take no credit. I didn't build the forts, Google claims copyright on the satellite images, and you can take identical screenies by telling Google Earth to go to the same places.