How to ride a Prop Plane

[PadFoot 0]

Hi folks,

 

I love IL-2 1946 because of the graphics and the list of planes you can fly. But what upsets me mostly is stalling. I never get that problem when I fly any modern fighters.

 

Any online manual or guide which teaches you how to fly without stalling. The manual which comes with the game doesn't exactly tell you the tricks. Besides, I am using Saitek Cyborg X joystick which is a bit stiff and requires a little bit of effort to maneuver....thanks!

[macelena 1,070]

Watch your Angle of Attack. It is common to force the aircraft to climb too suddenly, too fast, bleeding out energy. I suggest you to take it easy. Transition from props-jets usually means those troubles for the pilot.

[shotdown 8]

Hi folks,

 

I love IL-2 1946 because of the graphics and the list of planes you can fly. But what upsets me mostly is stalling. I never get that problem when I fly any modern fighters.

 

Any online manual or guide which teaches you how to fly without stalling. The manual which comes with the game doesn't exactly tell you the tricks. Besides, I am using Saitek Cyborg X joystick which is a bit stiff and requires a little bit of effort to maneuver....thanks!

 

You could try starting with something easy to fly, like a spitfire. It must be difficult to tell people how to fly to avoid stalling, when there are so many different planes in hte game.

[UnknownPilot 33]

Stick time.

 

Stick time, stick time, and more stick time.

 

Watch for the buffeting. This is present in 2 or maybe 3 forms, depending on your rig. The primary is audio. You need enough sound to immerse yourself. Headphones are ok, but the larger the better. Better still are LARGE speakers - either a high end PC sound system, or a full blown stereo system (which is what I use, a Fisher Stereo receiver/amplifer (you only need the amp if you have a unit with a separate tuner), hooked up to my Audigy on one end, and 4 stereo speakres, stacked 2 high on each side of my desk). You dont' want to deafen yourself, but you want to be able to hear all the nuances. And it is part of immersion as well, remember, technically those things were unbearably loud, you don't have to go that far, but it is recommended to at least try to simulate it to some extent.

 

After sound, there are some visual cues of buffeting as well. The screen will shake subtly, depending on what plane, what patch, and what you're doing at the time. If your head/view is turned to the side, you can see slat equipped planes (such as the 109 or La5/7) having their slats extended (which will happen before the stall and not mean an immenent stall in and of itself).

 

Lastly, if you have a force feed-back stick, you will feel it there as well.

 

And of course, being aware of your speed and what you are doing to the plane. Every plane has nuances, the 109 can be man-handled and normally can take it at slow speeds, but won't move much at high speeds, and when it does stall, it should be gentle and easy to recover from. The 190 will snap stall, even at higher speeds, and is likely to go into a spin.

 

Other than just raw random time with the game. Pick a plane. Find one you REALLY like (that is key), and just spend time learning it. Fight against the AI in varying skill levels and numbers, go on line whenever you can and fight against human opponents, study up on how it was used in real life, and learn the strenghts and characteristics of that plane.

 

This will enable you to see more success more quickly (sticking to 1 type for a bit), but also generate knowledge that will carry over to all planes in all simulators.

[PadFoot 0]

So what do I do to recover from stalling?

[UnknownPilot 33]

That question further enhances the notion that you should pick one type for now and stick with it. I'm just sayin'.....

 

Recovering is dependent upon what is happening. Not every aircraft will stall from the same things, nor in the same way. As above, first key - don't stall. If you have, then you need to restore airflow to the wing. That is generally a combination of reducing angle of attack and increasing speed.

 

In a 109, for example, just let go of the controls and it should nose down and pick up speed and return to controlled flight. Sometimes you can help a plane by using the controls to nose it down a bit. And sometimes you can increase throttle a bit for the same effect. However it needs to be noted that sometimes using control input during a stall can be the worst thing to do as you will induce a spin. Again, it depends on the aircraft and the state you are in at the time of the stall.

 

Also, don't confuse stall with spin. I am not saying that you are, I'm just tossing that out there, as while I think about it, an accelerated stall, like the 190 is so capable of, is almost immediately snapped into a spin if you aren't ready for it and don't know how to deal with it. And at that point (actually in a spin), things change.

 

Fire up the QMB, pick the plane you've chosen to focus on and learn, and have there be no enemy or any other plane in the sky, pick a good altitude (3Km or so, high enough to have altitude to play with, but not so high as to make the plane uncooperative), and just start playing with it. Fly level and reduce throttle until it stalls, see what happens. Then try it again with the flaps and gear down. Then clean (flaps and gear up), while climbing, then again while turning, etc. Each stall condition will result in different behavoirs and require different responses. (a hammerhead, for example, is an intentional stall turned into a maneuver)

[JediMaster 451]

I find for most planes in Il-2 cutting throttle, stick forward, and opposite rudder seems to work best. Sometimes you have to put some roll in, sometimes not. Better hope you have plenty of altitude, though, because some planes only want to recover when they're in a pure vertical dive.

[PadFoot 0]

I don't have plans for sticking to a particular plane but now I believe I have to. What about the Spitfire. When I was reading the Battle of Britain when I was 12, I read about all the glory of this legendary fighters, sounds like the F/A-18 of today.

 

You said it right, I was so unlucky to enter a spin right after the plane started to stall almost every time. I hate when it does that. The AI always does that, splashes right in front of you and the the moment I realize that, it is already on my six. I believe we are on the same plane where the AI is trying to perform a flat scissor as it loses the advantage over me.

 

I know what I've done wrongly. I break left, banking by 45 degrees, pull back on my stick (give me a hard on:grin:), speed bleeds, naturally by so much that after I have completed a 180 degrees thinking that the AI should be right in front of me, my speed is always less than 280KM which translate into 140Knots. I know this is bad.

 

Should I do a Split-S, but I don't have that speed to climb to perform a 180 degrees turn in a vertical plane? If I roll by 180 degrees and perform the same 180 degree turn in the vertical down direction, do I pull back on the throttle so that he turn can be completed faster with a smaller radius? By beating the AI by a faster time, I suppose I can get advantage of a kill??

[shotdown 8]

What about the Spitfire. When I was reading the Battle of Britain when I was 12, I read about all the glory of this legendary fighters, sounds like the F/A-18 of today.

 

 

As far as glory is concerned I don't think the Hornet can match the Spitfire. I mean, The Hornet didn't save USA from a foreing invasion (Actually, in the battle of Britain, it was the Hurricane that did most of the hard work, but for most people BoB means Messerschmitt vs Spitfire)

[PadFoot 0]

...just forgotten to mention...it was the time I tried to break left on the horizontal plane, the plane stalled and entered a spin not long after the stall happened...

 

Perhaps I should put my IR Tracker back in place, because I cant really depend on the hat switch for tracking the AI.

[PadFoot 0]

As far as glory is concerned I don't think the Hornet can match the Spitfire. I mean, The Hornet didn't save USA from a foreing invasion (Actually, in the battle of Britain, it was the Hurricane that did most of the hard work, but for most people BoB means Messerschmitt vs Spitfire)

You're right bud, but the Spitfire has a sleek look and it is lighter. It is easier to maneuver than the Hurricane. But indeed, Hurricane outnumbered the Spitfire by kill ratios.

[UnknownPilot 33]

I don't have plans for sticking to a particular plane but now I believe I have to. What about the Spitfire. When I was reading the Battle of Britain when I was 12, I read about all the glory of this legendary fighters, sounds like the F/A-18 of today.

 

You said it right, I was so unlucky to enter a spin right after the plane started to stall almost every time. I hate when it does that. The AI always does that, splashes right in front of you and the the moment I realize that, it is already on my six. I believe we are on the same plane where the AI is trying to perform a flat scissor as it loses the advantage over me.

 

I know what I've done wrongly. I break left, banking by 45 degrees, pull back on my stick (give me a hard on:grin:), speed bleeds, naturally by so much that after I have completed a 180 degrees thinking that the AI should be right in front of me, my speed is always less than 280KM which translate into 140Knots. I know this is bad.

 

Should I do a Split-S, but I don't have that speed to climb to perform a 180 degrees turn in a vertical plane? If I roll by 180 degrees and perform the same 180 degree turn in the vertical down direction, do I pull back on the throttle so that he turn can be completed faster with a smaller radius? By beating the AI by a faster time, I suppose I can get advantage of a kill??

 

 

Ok, let's slow down a sec.

 

As I mentioned before, stalls and spins are not the same, JM was talking about spins for some reason when you asked about stalls. This distinction is important and you shouldn't be confused by it.

 

When a plane stalls, it just "stops flying". The airflow separates from the wings either due to angle of attack, or speed, or both. As long as you aren't under excessive G-load, or in a bad position, and don't aggrevate the matter, it won't enter into a spin (which is basically what the name implies).

 

In IL2, a sure-fire way to induce a spin is to be banked during a stall and then continue to feed elevator into it. Or, to give it a boot of rudder during the same situation. Then you need to do what JM said, stick centered, opposite rudder, and in some cases give opposite aileron and stick down (but not normally).

 

Ideally, you want to be intune with the plane enough so that when it does stall, immediately ease back on the stick. Roll level if you aren't, and gently nose down (if you aren't already diving). This will build your speed back up and return the airflow to the wings. Even better is to ride the edge of the stall without going over, but that comes only with experience. Again, listen to the sound, when you hear the buffeting, you're approaching a stall, time to consider getting more speed.

 

 

Now, with that out of the way... you mention difficulties in holding the stick back and blasting the AI baddies. If that is your preferred style, I would first recommend setting the flight model difficulties to a lower/easier setting. That is NOT meant as an insult, so please don't take it as such. It's just that in a full simulation, that idea simply will not work. Secondly, regardless of your difficulty settings, since you're fighting the AI, if you're doing QMB missions, I would recommend setting their skill level on the low end, AND, giving them heavier planes. The AI can't handle energy fighters all that well. So if you want to use a Spit, take a late mark up against a 190A8. Or ignore sides and put the AI in a P-47. That will give you what you mention above - the ability to roll, pull back, and then get your sights on him and blast him.

 

Alternately, you could go with an I-153 or Zero as your ride - or even a Yak3. Then most planes will be worse turners than you.

 

Don't sweat it though, everyone starts out that way. It just takes stick time. There is no 2 ways around it. In time, you'll be more comfortable with the plane you are flying, and you can start to venture into energy tactics, but that is not easy to wrap your head around if you are just getting started (absolutely not intuitive).

 

 

As for Spit vs Hurri, it's just like the Mustang or Corsair. The Jug and Hellcat did all the work, but those 2 poser-mobiles get all the glory.

 

However, the Hurri is a turning fiend. Be sure. It's shortcomming is it's lack of speed. Speed is life. Speed is more important than turning, but that takes us back to energy tactics again. But it does raise another point - if you are approaching a stall, or if you do stall - give up the chase. Don't force the plane into a stall through target fixation, and don't ham fist it into a spin through the same. Be gentle on the controls. Suggest what you want the plane to do rather than man-handling it. Keep your speed up as much as possible as often as possible. If you get a program called IL2 Compare, you will see the relative turn rates at speeds for various planes. The peak is the "corner speed", you want to try to stay around there. But you also don't want to over-control it and force an accelerated stall either.

 

Something else to look at it is your stick slider settings within IL2. Most people will adust those. There are some that leave it at all 100s across the board. But most of us find it way too over sensitive like that because our sticks are much shorter than the real things were.

 

IL2 doesn't map your stick to the plane's stick on a 1:1 basis. Your stick represents the amount of force you are commanding your virtual pilot to exert. And there is a maximum that he can (50lbs, IIRC). As speeds increase and control forces increase, the amount your planes stick will actually move will reduce. So if you think of your stick as a scale, and the more you pull it, the more weight (force) you are applying, then the sliders, break down how much of the called for force in that area of movement actually get's applied.

 

Ok, that was confusing. Let's try it this way - at full back, you are saying "exert 50lbs on the stick". If that last slider in the menu is dropped to 50%, then when you pull your stick back all the way you will be saying "exert 25lbs on the stick".

 

In other words, if you go with a stepped scale on those sliders, starting very low on the left and reaching 100 on the right, you will be able to apply more physical stick movement (the one in your actual hand) for a given plane reaction, making the plane less sensitive, and thereby easier to control.

 

And something else to check is the quality of your joystick's pots. Find a stick analyzer (I think there is one in the windows control panel, but I've had my Cougar and it's own software for so long I can't remember). Move your stick around and watch what it does on the analyzer. Hold it in various places as well. If it jerks around, you may want to consider cleaning the pots (just spraying contact cleaner in there can help (make sure to unplug the stick first lol, then let it dry totally), but somtimes for best results you want to disassemble them - but great care is needed in that, because you CAN ruin them, and your stick in the process), or you can increase the filter slider, which will smooth out those jerks a bit (albeit at a slight loss of repsonse). If it jumps around in the center in particular, you can increase the dead-zone slider (basically making the center (aka, no input zone) larger). Again, that too does result in some loss of response, but if either or both smooth out your inputs, then it's worth it.

 

Calibrating and tuning your hardware will make a night and day difference, even before getting into issues of experience and skill.

 

GL.

[PadFoot 0]

I do not have an organized understanding of Energy Tactics and how to apply them! Al I know about it is to go vertical as much as possible to the highest ceiling as I can then maintain it like an eagle flying high to hunt for target below it. But in the heat of the battle, I always find it difficult to get it off my back and regain altitude before re-engaging it.

 

The stick I use is a very primitive - the Saitek Cyborg X. And it is brand new. I'll try to tune it...

[UnknownPilot 33]

I do not have an organized understanding of Energy Tactics and how to apply them! Al I know about it is to go vertical as much as possible to the highest ceiling as I can then maintain it like an eagle flying high to hunt for target below it. But in the heat of the battle, I always find it difficult to get it off my back and regain altitude before re-engaging it.

 

The stick I use is a very primitive - the Saitek Cyborg X. And it is brand new. I'll try to tune it...

 

 

Being brand new, we can assume the pots aren't too spikey (they may be, but it's less likely), so you probably don't need to increase the filter or deadzone.

 

First thing to do is, as I said, find the slider menu (it's been a few months since I fired up IL2, I think it's from the main menu under hardware), then start pulling down the ones on the left. The scale is broken down into (I think 10) zones. On the screen they are laid out left to right, and map to the stick such that left-most is stick center, and right-most is stick extreme. (yes, L to R = Center to Full Extent, I think I got that backwards in my previous post, sorry for any confusion)

 

There are scales for Pitch, Roll, and Yaw. You probably don't need to mess with yaw, and pitch will be more important than roll, but I personally match both pitch and roll to each other.

 

You will have to simply experiment and find what works well for you. I would recommend first firing up the QMB before touching the sliders and wrangling a plane around, see how it feels. Then go into the sliders and start dropping down the ones on the left. You might try starting at 10 and working your way up in 10's till you reach 100. Then go back into the QMB and repeat your test and see how it feels.

 

I personally use a scale that ramps up. Most of the sliders from about the 6th on are 100, but the first is really low, and it is an increasing (curved) ramp, rather than linear (straight diagonnal). But this is a very personal thing to each pilot and his controls. You will need to find what works best for you, and you can only do that through experimentation.

 

(also, differnet planes respond differently. Ideally I'd use a different scale for 190s than for other planes, but since I don't use 190s exclusively, I don't dedicate it to them - I'm just saying once you get one tuned in, you may find in another plane that it feels more or less sensitive, that would be why, just something to keep in mind)

 

 

As for energy fighting. That is a long and complicated subject all it's own. In it's most primitive state, yes, it could be described (vaguely) as diving onto your opponent to kill him - as per the Boelcke Dicta. But true energy fighting is so very much more than that. As I said, it's not intuitive at all (it seems like it is once you understand it though), and isn't something that people take to quickly, and isn't something that is easy to convey over the net. (I'm always happy to answer questions though, feel free to PM any time. )