Libya against Egypt Scenarios

[+allenjb42]

I've been toying with the idea of a Libya\Egypt install. They fought a brief war in the 1970s and a 1980s scenario would be doable too, either a straight fight between the two or part of a wider NATO\Warpac conflict in the Med, maybe set at the time of the USN\Libyan confontations.

 

The planeset matchup is quite interesting, and we have pretty much all of the aircraft, and many of the skins, required - Libya has MiG-21, -23 and -25, Mirage 5 & F1 and Su-22s, and Egypt would have MiG-21, Su-7 & 20 and Mirage 5 to start with, and then also F-4E, F-16A and Mirage 2000 in a 1980s scenario. Tu-16s and Tu-22s could also be included for Egypt and Libya respectively. For helicopters, both sides have Mi-8s, and the Libyans have Mi-25s too.

 

What sort of ground objects (tanks, APCs, AAA and SAMs) would be needed for each side in 1970s and 1980s scenarios? Do they both have Soviet equipment?

 

The Libya map is not really useful because it doesn't have the border with Egypt, but if we had a modernised North Africa terrain based on Edwards\Wrench's WW2 version that would be perfect.

 

What do you think?

[macelena]

About the egyptian ground objects, i think that apart from all the russian material, they got, at approximately the same time as the Phantoms, M-60s, from 1979 and onwards , and from the same era, M-109s, M-110s and M-113s. They also have land based Vulcan on M-113 (M-163) AAA, but i don´t know when did they get them.

[Wrench]

Modernizing the NorthAfrica terrain would probably take about 1-2 days work; all you really need to do is remove my repainted runway skins, and swap out some of the Runway3s for either Runway2 or Runway1 (bigger for jets). Benghazi should have plenty of room for a Runway4 for their Badgers; same for Cario and Alex. Then, just do the rename thingy to more modern names (ie: remove "Landing Ground" and "Field")

 

The docked ships/convoy stations, vehicles at the depots/army bases are just as easily swapped out for more modern stuff.

Of course, SAM sites would need adding, but again, the only hard part is locating them (ie: copy/paste pre-existing target areas and populating with the necessary launchers, radars and whatnots). IIRC, I used the generic "AAA" for guns. If networked AAA guns are being used, you'll have to co-locate Firecans in the general vicinity of your AAA batteries. Swapping out the "3RFlag", "IT2Flg", etc for LYFlag and EGFlag would also be necessary.

 

One could even get Greece into the action, what with the Athens INt'l existing; although the airfields on Crete would be problematic ... as they're the small Runway3 (and I don't think anything else would fit!!) One can change Crete's 'status' to NEUTRAL, and it'll be ignored. (no insult meant to Cretens, of course!)

 

Nope, not hard to do at all.

 

wrench

kevin stein

[Wrench]

EDIT: hm.... looks like some retiling would be in order too, to add the 'historic' EAF airfields ala the Isreal 2 map (all them bases in the Nile Delta region). AGain, not a real big deal; just finding the proper coordinates would be the problem, and adding the various nearby cities and such.

 

As the terrain uses the stock Desret textures, + the 'cityport2', that shouldn't pose any problems, either

 

Just is case anyone is wondering .... when I do a WW2-ish terrain, I usually take into consideration WHAT would it take to bring it forward into more modern times. It kinda saves on brainwork....although sometimes the research is killer!!

 

below are the entries for the TextureListDesert.ini for the cityport2 tile, for anyone who wants...

 

first listing:

 

Filename069=CityPort2.bmp

 

later entry:

 

[CityPort2.bmp]

TextureType=1

DetailType=2

HeightMapScale=2.000000

TransitionType=2

TransitionTo=4

3WayTransitionTo=0

RiverType=0

RandomFactor=100

ExclusionRegion=0

ExcludeMaxX=0

ExcludeMinX=0

ExcludeMaxY=0

ExcludeMinY=0

LimitRotation=0

Allow0deg=0

Allow90deg=0

Allow180deg=0

Allow270deg=0

SolidObjectTexture=terobject_buildings1.bmp

AlphaObjectTexture=terobject_trees1.bmp

 

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+allenjb42]

Thanks for the info Kevin. I'll look into it, unless of course.....

[Wrench]

Well, the quick and dirty way would be just to change the existing runways/airfields.

 

Unfortunately, retiling/retargeting isn't something I can get into for the forseeable (9-12 month) future. STill got Korea, and just started redoing Isreal 2 to make some fixes in tiling, and some targets clean up (for both WoI and SF2I), what with the Suez Expansion due out any week now....But it WOULD be nice to add Helwan, Al Manusra, etc.

BTW, don't forget The Wall on that map is juuuuusssst east of Port Said, thereby eliminated the need for Isreali involvement.

 

Then there's Indi-Pakistan, Panama, WW2 Euro (retarget and minimal retile)...and 4 or 5 others.....

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+allenjb42]

No problem.

 

I'm going to start on the airfields and build up the air defences, modernise the pre-placed ground objects etc. and work from there.

 

There's probably enough airfields on the map at the moment anyway, working on the basis that the Egyptians would forward deploy any required forces to nearer the border, and that they don't have any air refueling assets.

[+allenjb42]

Does anyone know if there are skins around for:

 

Mirage F1 - Libya

MiG 21 - Libya

C-130 Hercules - Egypt

 

Thanks.

[Guest Raden]

Does anyone know if there are skins around for:

 

Mirage F1 - Libya

MiG 21 - Libya

C-130 Hercules - Egypt

 

Thanks.

 

This morning I just bumped into a new, Egypt Herc in the SKIN DL section, if I recall it correctly. Check it oout pls.

 

Re Libya's MiG-21MF, go try the MarcFighter PAGE six or four. Many SKINS of the MiG-21s there. I do not recall ever seeing one though...give it a try.

 

Just browsed this:

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=quick_search&search_sort_by=date&search_sort_order=desc&search_term=c-130&search_filter_app[downloads]=1&st=50

 

 

and no luck for the EAF new skin for its Herc. I remember correctly I was interested to DL it, and saw anothe namely, the Turky's skin that I am not interested.

 

BTW, can't u just create a What If skin for it the Egyptian's Herc?

 

 

Edited May 9, 2010 by Raden

[Wrench]

Had a thought about this the other day (whilst down with nothing to do...)

 

You are probably going to run into the same problems as the India terrain ... both Egypt and Lybia are classed as ENEMY nations in the game's Nations.ini. Now, I'm not exactly sure how this works, but you might be able to create Egypt as FRIENDLY in the terrain's nations ini, using the limited nations statement, and adding something like the following:

 

FriendlyNation001=Egypt

EnemyNation001=Lybia

 

but I've not clue if that'll even work (08 or SF2)

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+allenjb42]

Raden, if you've seen an Egyptian Herc skin please can you link it as I've not seen one. I could probably mock up a Libyan Fishbed from one of the desert skins around.

 

Kevin, I've already made Egypt friendly in the main nations.ini (it makes it a lot easier getting the western planes to work). This is the Modern NAfrica_nations.ini I've got so far

 

Theater]

TheaterName=Modern North Africa

Location001=Western Desert

Location002=Cyrenaica

Location003=Greece

Location004=Crete

Location005=Albania

 

[Nation001]

NationID=035

Name=Libya

DisplayName=Libyan Air Force

Alignment=ENEMY

PilotNameList=NamesArabic.lst

RankList=RanksRAF.lst

CallsignList=CallsignsUS.lst

Formation.Fighter=SovietFighter

Formation.Attack=SovietFighter

Formation.Bomber=SovietBomber

Formation.Transport=SovietBomber

Formation.Tank=SovietTank

Formation.MobileAD=SovietAD

PilotTrainingStandard=POOR

GenderRatio=0

 

[Nation002]

NationID=031

Name=Egypt

DisplayName=Eqyptian Air Force

Alignment=ENEMY

PilotNameList=NamesArabic.lst

RankList=RanksRAF.lst

CallsignList=CallsignsUS.lst

Formation.Fighter=SovietFighter

Formation.Attack=SovietFighter

Formation.Bomber=SovietBomber

Formation.Transport=SovietBomber

Formation.Tank=SovietTank

Formation.MobileAD=SovietAD

PilotTrainingStandard=POOR

GenderRatio=0

 

Do I need to a limited nations list too? I'm testing this in a new fully patched install of WOI so that I can use the Egyptian & Libyan skins.

[Wrench]

I would think so, more for campaign building. I'm stil not totally clear on exactly how the LimitedNations=TRUE statement works for single missions (altough the IsrealME map is a real good guide...)

 

I DO know, there must be at least one Friendly nations listed in the terrain's Nations ini (interesting to not, SF2 does NOT use that .. it uses the limited nations statement, and the games main nations ini, as I think WoV's VietnamSEA does as well)

 

wrench

kevin stein

[Guest Raden]

Raden, if you've seen an Egyptian Herc skin please can you link it as I've not seen one. I could probably mock up a Libyan Fishbed from one of the desert skins around.

 

I myself have attempted to locate the new EAF or Egyptian Herc, at the time I was about DL-ing other plane. It was however in RANDOM Files, hence; no way to trace it back. But I do recall I saw it and interested to DL.......Sorry can not be of an haelp to u. Good luck. BTW, I shall try again.

[Guest flavius_opium_maccus]

I've been toying with the idea of a Libya\Egypt install. They fought a brief war in the 1970s and a 1980s scenario would be doable too, either a straight fight between the two or part of a wider NATO\Warpac conflict in the Med, maybe set at the time of the USN\Libyan confontations.

 

The planeset matchup is quite interesting, and we have pretty much all of the aircraft, and many of the skins, required - Libya has MiG-21, -23 and -25, Mirage 5 & F1 and Su-22s, and Egypt would have MiG-21, Su-7 & 20 and Mirage 5 to start with, and then also F-4E, F-16A and Mirage 2000 in a 1980s scenario. Tu-16s and Tu-22s could also be included for Egypt and Libya respectively. For helicopters, both sides have Mi-8s, and the Libyans have Mi-25s too.

 

What sort of ground objects (tanks, APCs, AAA and SAMs) would be needed for each side in 1970s and 1980s scenarios? Do they both have Soviet equipment?

 

The Libya map is not really useful because it doesn't have the border with Egypt, but if we had a modernised North Africa terrain based on Edwards\Wrench's WW2 version that would be perfect.

 

What do you think?

 

 

How about a short , furious campaign involving Libya and a USA carrier in Mediteranean sea, as in '81 , when Regan ordered retaliations against the , Ghadaffy , the mad dog ?;) As I recall two F-14s met two libyan MIGs (I think they were MIg-21, I don't remember) and the score was, surprisingly, equal: 1-1

Edited June 13, 2010 by flavius_opium_maccus