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UK_Widowmaker

OT Nazi Guards (funny)

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Hale and Pace, who were popular in the 1980's in the UK

Quite Amusing Ja?....

The Pilot is my old Squadron mate, Harry 'Squiffy' Muldoon...lol

 

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If only the Nazis had been that stupid - it would have saved the world a lot of pain.

I try to laugh, but it often gets stuck in my throat when I see scenes with Nazis - even with comedy.

Can't help it.

I was unable to watch Tarantino's "Inglorious Bastards". The scene, when Christoph Walz interviews the farmer

who is hiding jews under the floorboards; the sadistic gentlemanly conduct of this officer against a man, who is

only left the choice: them or my own family - I can't watch it. It makes me sick.

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I can understand what you mean Olham.

 

I'm a great believer in comedy being used to ridicule human stupidity...I think it's better to make Buffoons out of those we fear.

 

My dad always told me, that if I am ever in front of anyone I find intimidating..to just imagine them taking a dump!

(works for me) :drinks:

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Your dad was right there, Widowmaker - best working man's recepy.

An encouraging comedy film I really love, against the Nazis, is Ernst Lubitsch's "To be or not to be" ;

a masterpiece of how to make resistence with what you can do best. In this case: acting.

They make fools of the blockheads, without using any violence.

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Did Secret Army ever make it to Germany Olham?

 

It was the original drama series about 'Lifeline' getting downed RAF pilots out of occupied Belgium. It's the series which Allo Allo sends up, but the original series in the 70's was gripping stuff. The series is very dated now, but as I remember it, the Nazi's were all very plausible characters, and the fear that surrounded them was very convincing. Kessler was pure evil, and very scary as the SS played politics with the Luftwaffe to get hold of any captured fliers. It really played with your loyalties and sympathies with good Germans and bad ones, and you often didn't know who to trust.

 

It was a long 30 years ago, but I remember it being pretty good. It's probably hard to watch now after Allo Allo, but maybe not. Yvette, Jan Francis, was central to the whole first series, but she was killed off first programme second series. It was that kind of programme. Nobody was safe.

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Not sure if it was on TV here - I missed many evening series; mostly watched TV only after 8.

Sounds interesting.

What really stirred me up was the Lagerkommandant Amon Göth as played by Ralph Fiennes in "Schindler's List".

A man with a sympathic, almost melancholic face, absolutely torn between his wish to be good sometimes, and

then so absolutely bestial, that he kills Jews during the morning line up, just for fun before breakfast.

That man was a monster, that makes Frankenstein look like a guy you could be friends with.

Such people can disturb and freeze me to the roots. And - although I know such badly warped sadists exist anywhere

else too - it is very painful to know he was a German; maybe even with a good education, with taste and some style.

So many from my own fatherland have done so unspeakable godless things - it is a trauma to know that.

 

Sorry for bringing in this mood here, Widowmaker - it's not your fault, and you often bring a smile into my days.

Edited by Olham

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So many from my own fatherland have done so unspeakable godless things - it is a trauma to know that.

I understand you Olham.

Lately I saw Shoah, Die Wannseekonferenz , Hotel Terminus and The Specialist documentary.

After that my faith in the human race really decreased. This time I was really beaten.

I too wouldn't feel much comfortable to know that they come from my national breed. There was the Holy Inquisition... But that was half century ago. Not a couple of generations ago. Now more than ever, I understand why usually, I can't speak with Germans, about these things.

And yet, they shouldn't feel guilty.

Edited by Von Paulus

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Let's get this into some kind of perspective though guys.

 

Yes, the Nazis were brutal...but they were certainly not the first, and if Kosovo and Rwanda are anything to go by, they won't be the Last.

The Schindler's list guy...of course you are going to get psychopaths like him, jumping on a bandwagon such as Nazi Idealism..it's an ideal playground for sadistic creatures to come out of the woodwork, and indulge their sick fantasy.

 

This is not a 'German' issue....it's a Human Being Issue...Hitler emerged through a unique set of circumstances..like a terrible accident..it's a chain...break one link, and the accident doesnt happen...at least, not this time.

 

IMHO the German people have been made to remember Nazi brutality for long enough by far!....Whereas, the Japanese seem to be allowed to just get on with it!

(although two atomic Bombs was quite a telling off however)

 

The terrible things that the British Empire did throughout it's reign, is certainly questionable...the systematic destruction of the Native American's is a black Mark on the USA..everyone was at it!still are...Just the losers have to pay sadly...and boy..do they pay!!

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Back on the controversial box again, but remember the Falklands? Or to be more specific, how deeply unpopular Thatcher was beforehand but swept to a landslide victory afterwards? Don't worry admin, this isn't a political jibe, but more a look at the mechanism of power. I remember very well the wave of euphoria which swept the country as and after the British Task Force won it's astonishing victory in the South Atlantic, but I also remember how criticism of the government was swept away as if it was unpatriotic. Remember Thatcher ducking a difficult question with "Just rejoice at that news..!" ?

 

I'll keep my opinions of Thatcher to myself, and no, it's not a comparision with the rise of the Nazis, but I could see how easy it was to manipulate public opinion and isolate those who would 'resist the flow' so to speak. Once a population is so motivated, it takes tremendous courage and no little personal risk to stand up to the machinery. It's difficult to put into words, but I think I can see how the Nazi's made themselves so unopposable. It's an abuse of people's legitimate patriotism, agitated to action by stoking up resentment of some grievance or injustice, with the resulting excesses in behavior celebrated by public adulation.

 

I don't excuse the Nazis, but when ordinary German people say they were swept along with the times, they should be listened to. I think I can see how it happened, and how it could happen in any one of our countries. Once there is evil at the top, (not just evil mind you, but any extreme opinion shall we say), then I believe any population could be manipulated into thinking and doing whatever that leadership wants it to think. That's why Dictators who would take their countries to war with their neighbours MUST be taken very seriously. It's not their extreme beliefs which are the danger, but the fact they have the power to steer the mechanism of their country towards their singular objective. Extreme beliefs can be fought on their merits, but once the juggernaut of a whole country starts to roll and gather momentum, then the opinions of individual people count for very little. Look to our own history, not just the Falklands, but WW1, and men of fighting age being handed white feathers if they weren't wearing a uniform. Wouldn't you buckle under that kind of pressure?

 

Don't feel guilty Olham. Germany has gone through a very bitter chapter in it's history, but all of us need to learn the lessons. The troops in the trenches recognised the ordinary Germans as brothers in arms and victims of war. I, for one, am happy to do likewise. It's our leaders we have to watch.

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How about "Dad's Army" always a favourite of mine. Just some good old English humour and I see nothing more in it . :)

 

Speedski

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One thing is clear for me, we cannot relativize it and trying to compare.

This was a unique situation. It cannot be compared with Rwanda. Even Kosovo was different , in spite of having some common characteristics.

We tend to see the typical Nazi has a scoundrel, but it wasn't so. That Amon Göthd type was more common than that we might think. Heydrich for example was not a criminal type.

Like Olham, I find this very disturbing.

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Humor is a trait of our species, The Nazi's probably found humorous things in their work about the Camps to relive the tension and the in- humanity of their occupation. I would think that some of the people just got caught up in the circumstances of the time and went along with whatever the crowd was doing. ( non-Criminal types). However, it does not relive those individuals from their Moral obligations or lets them not be involved by doing nothing. History does repeat itself which is why I cringe whenever I see a funny Nazi portrayed in the Arts. Just my 2 Cents fellows.

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I think there is a marked difference between the German attitude to WW2, and that of the Japanese. Many Japanese are still in denial about their nations conduct in China and WW2, and the brutal manner in which it treated POWs and indigenous populations of the countries which their armies occupied.

 

Maybe you should all watch that video about Nanking. I guarantee it will broaden your spectrum of what constitutes evil. I'm talking toddlers, 2 or 3 years of age, with their eyes put out. It truly beggars description. Some troops were reprimanded, not for carrying out such bestial atrocities, but for sending postcards home about it. If the Japs have no remorse about doing such things after 70 years, then I think I'll let the Chinese have the last word about their forgiveness.

 

Edit - Sorry, got my threads mixed up. The Nanking stuff was in another thread. Here's the link, but be warned, it's not for the faint hearted...

 

Edited by Flyby PC

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Oh dear - now we have gone completely off topic - Widowmaker wanted to bring some light of joy into our autumn days,

and now we got to the massakers of Nanking. (I admit, I didn't click and watch it - I know too much of such things already,

Flyby, and it brings up deep depression in me to watch that). Sorry, Widow - next time I won't start it again.

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I would compare the Japanese atrocities more with Kosovo.

The Nazi problem is a different one. They created a industry/factory of death.

Everything was cold thought, planned and executed in the most efficient way (I could say German way). That was unique.

And this was conducted by educated man. By pure westerners. Some of them, sensible enough, to find the all matter disgust but necessary.

There were some that must have been socio/psychopaths. But not all. And I firmly believe, most weren't.

It's this that disturbs me must. Not that I found the other atrocities less important.

Of course I don't found all the Germans at the time guilty. Fear is human. Most were ruled by fear. While I fully agree we have a moral obligation, the living in a fear environment changes everything.

Edited by Von Paulus

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