Favorite World War 1 Movie & Book?

[Javito1986 14]

I've been looking for more World War 1 related media and thought I'd turn to the ol' grogs at the forum for some advice. I've recently finished reading Goshawk Squadron. Great book! It's about the second or third time I've read it over the years, and I'd like to find something new to read about the air war.

 

As far as movies go, I just this morning watched All Quiet on the Western Front, the 1979 version. It's been years and years since I saw it, the last time was some ten years ago in grammar school. I stopped watching it after a while out of a sense of youthful elitism, since I discovered the classic original 1930 version and decided the 1979 one "sucked horribly" in comparison. Now that I'm an old man I can say that while the original is better, no doubt about it, the '79 is extremely well done also. They kinda go well together I think. The 1930 one focuses more on the book's characters, we see a lot more of them together, whereas the '79 one lays them by the wayside (except Kat) and focuses exclusively on Baumer and his narration. They're both faithful adaptations me thinks. Did you know they're making a new one in 2012 starring Daniel Radcliff? I think he's a good pick. Certainly no stranger than Lew Ayres or Richard Thomas.

 

There aren't really very many war movies I enjoy to be honest with you, but it makes me sad how badly World War 1 is forgotten these days and it's hardly ever depicted in film. The WW1 bookshelves are lacking as well. Few days ago I read through The Somme at Borders (yay speedreading) and WW1 books accounted for two rows at the top of the shelf, the rest of which was filled with WW2 books. And then the next four shelves were for WW2 books!

 

This is in the United States, mind you. Maybe in European countries WW1 has left a great footprint on the public conscious? Over here people straight up forget, probably because the U.S. was only in it such a brief time comparatively. On 11/11 one news anchor mentioned that Veteran's Day commemorates the end of World War 1 and his fellow anchorwoman said "Really? I didn't know that" and I wanted to be like *Judo-chop!*

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

For the movie it would be the 1938 classic "Dawn Patrol". The book is much, much tougher as I have many that I consider my favorites, but I believe at this moment I will go with "Sagittarius Rising" by Cecil Lewis.

 

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[Creaghorn 10]

I've been looking for more World War 1 related media and thought I'd turn to the ol' grogs at the forum for some advice. I've recently finished reading Goshawk Squadron. Great book! It's about the second or third time I've read it over the years, and I'd like to find something new to read about the air war.

 

As far as movies go, I just this morning watched All Quiet on the Western Front, the 1979 version. It's been years and years since I saw it, the last time was some ten years ago in grammar school. I stopped watching it after a while out of a sense of youthful elitism, since I discovered the classic original 1930 version and decided the 1979 one "sucked horribly" in comparison. Now that I'm an old man I can say that while the original is better, no doubt about it, the '79 is extremely well done also. They kinda go well together I think. The 1930 one focuses more on the book's characters, we see a lot more of them together, whereas the '79 one lays them by the wayside (except Kat) and focuses exclusively on Baumer and his narration. They're both faithful adaptations me thinks. Did you know they're making a new one in 2012 starring Daniel Radcliff? I think he's a good pick. Certainly no stranger than Lew Ayres or Richard Thomas.

 

There aren't really very many war movies I enjoy to be honest with you, but it makes me sad how badly World War 1 is forgotten these days and it's hardly ever depicted in film. The WW1 bookshelves are lacking as well. Few days ago I read through The Somme at Borders (yay speedreading) and WW1 books accounted for two rows at the top of the shelf, the rest of which was filled with WW2 books. And then the next four shelves were for WW2 books!

 

This is in the United States, mind you. Maybe in European countries WW1 has left a great footprint on the public conscious? Over here people straight up forget, probably because the U.S. was only in it such a brief time comparatively. On 11/11 one news anchor mentioned that Veteran's Day commemorates the end of World War 1 and his fellow anchorwoman said "Really? I didn't know that" and I wanted to be like *Judo-chop!*

 

richard thomas a stranger? no, he's john boy. good night john boy .

the first version of all quiet is definitely better.

hardly to find US ww1 movies, since their role was hardly more significant as the sopwith snipe was in aviation (cheers wid ). and US "average" (please, no offence to the US audience with more knowledge about history etc.) audience wants to see winning americans where the soldier acts like a quarterback in a game and if he had to die, he dies a very heroic way with superheroic look into the distance, maybe with a flag in the background, while the super evil honorless german dies a cruel death where he cries like a women etc.

 

BTW. did you know that the author named the main character bäumer because of ww1 ace paul bäumer?

 

my favorite ww1 aviation movies i can recommend, hells angels (bad acting for todays standarts but best flying scenes of any ww1 aviation movie)

aces high, very good plot.

blue max

silent movie "wings"

[Dej 17]

'Aces High' holds a special place for me because it was the first WW1 aviation film I saw. I swear every video or DVD version of it since has some cut out though because I'm sure I remember rwo or three scenes that just aren't there. So I'm on the lookout for an uncut version. The 'Wings' series recently released is also very good and has been mentioned favourably several times on these fora.

 

Bookwise, I can strongly recommend 'Somme Mud' by E. P. F. Lynch. In the air, Arthur Gould Lee's 'No Parachute' is without equal in my personal opinion, topping even Cecil Lewis .

 

For fiction, well, 'The Blue Max' for me is even better in print than in celluloid; 'Winged Victory' is excellent; if you enjoyed 'Goshawk Squadron' then read 'War Story', another of Robinson's anti-cliché novels. And of course, Biggles is immortal.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Dej

[Javito1986 14]

I've been trying to find the BBC's Wings but the U.S. version of Amazon.com doesn't have it! And if I were to order from the UK the region restrictions wouldn't let me see it unless I had a region free DVD player. Lame.

[carrick58 23]

I agree, I would like to have BBC wings and a copy of various European books In the mean time, Dawn Patrol and Flying Fury will have to do.

Edited November 19, 2010 by carrick58

[Creaghorn 10]

'Aces High' holds a special place for me because it was the first WW1 aviation film I saw. I swear every video or DVD version of it since has some cut out though because I'm sure I remember rwo or three scenes that just aren't there. So I'm on the lookout for an uncut version. The 'Wings' series recently released is also very good and has been mentioned favourably several times on these fora.

 

 

which scenes are them, just to compare to what i have?

[Creaghorn 10]

I've been trying to find the BBC's Wings but the U.S. version of Amazon.com doesn't have it! And if I were to order from the UK the region restrictions wouldn't let me see it unless I had a region free DVD player. Lame.

 

you might type your dvd player and unicode or something into google and look for a way to decode. usually almost all dvd players have a certain combination of buttons on your remote, which unlocks the regional setting. worth a try

 

p.s. similar to the fatality modes in mortal kombat

Edited November 19, 2010 by Creaghorn

[Rugbyfan1972 1]

Javito1986,

 

If you have read Goshawk squadron, I would also recommend War Story and Hornets Sting both by Derek Robinson as they cover the war years 1916 and 1917 and although were written after Goshawk squadron are actually prequels to it.

 

One word of warning though Hornets Sting is quite hard to find (I have just checked Abebooks.co.uk, and they only show 13 copies with the cheapest being £24.99 + P&P), and also quite expensive, the most expensive copy on Abebooks was £190.

 

The two books mentioned are very much in the same style of writing as Goshawk Squadron.

 

Thanks

Fenwick

[Grinseed 19]

Ten important books on WW1 written by those who participated, but not necessarily in the flying services.

 

1. Winged Victory by V.M. Yeates, a Camel pilot.

2. Flying Fury by McCudden

3. The War Birds by the supposed unknown aviator, Ryder

4. Wind in the Wires by Duncan Grinnel-Milne

5.Combat Report by Bill Lambert

6.The Middle Parts of Fortune by Frederick Manning

7.Patriot's Progress by Henry Williamson

8. Storm of Steel by Ernst Junger

9. Under Fire by Henri Barbusse

10. Undertones of War by Edmund Blunden

 

After this lot you should have a good feel for life in the Great War.

 

Cheers Grinseed

[Grinseed 19]

Ten important books on WW1 written by those who participated, but not necessarily in the flying services.

 

1. Winged Victory by V.M. Yeates, a Camel pilot.

2. Flying Fury by McCudden

3. The War Birds by the supposed unknown aviator, Ryder

4. Wind in the Wires by Duncan Grinnel-Milne

5.Combat Report by Bill Lambert

6.The Middle Parts of Fortune by Frederick Manning

7.Patriot's Progress by Henry Williamson

8. Storm of Steel by Ernst Junger

9. Under Fire by Henri Barbusse

10. Undertones of War by Edmund Blunden

 

After this lot you should have a good feel for life in the Great War.

 

Cheers Grinseed

 

Apologies, thats Grider, not Ryder. The list was off the top of my head.

[Dej 17]

which scenes are them, just to compare to what i have?

 

One particular scene, which I'm 99% certain is missing, was in the final dogfight at the balloon line, when David Wood's character Lt. 'Tommy' Thompson is shot down. In the DVD I have you simply see his plane go down in flames. When I saw it at the cinema, you saw Thompson's face first blacken and blister in the flames before he leapt from his burning aircraft. It was a harrowing image, which is why it has stayed with me.

[MikeDixonUK 5]

The scene you're referring to can be seen in this YouTube clip:

 

Aces High Clip

 

Aye it's a strong scene, the bit that always gets me is the look on Gresham's (Malcolm McDowell) face as he watches him falling on fire, and equally the look when he sees each of his Wingmen being killed one by one - first he looks appalled, then he looks angry, then he looks like he's just had enough and wants to go home.

 

And of course at the start of the film when Dixon gets killed.

 

My favorite WW1 Film also - not counting

of course!

 

If you can fly a Sopwith Camel - you can fly anything!

Edited November 20, 2010 by MikeDixonUK

[Javito1986 14]

The scene you're referring to can be seen in this YouTube clip:

 

Aces High Clip

 

Aye it's a strong scene, the bit that always gets me is the look on Gresham's (Malcolm McDowell) face as he watches him falling on fire, and equally the look when he sees each of his Wingmen being killed one by one - first he looks appalled, then he looks angry, then he looks like he's just had enough and wants to go home.

 

And of course at the start of the film when Dixon gets killed.

 

My favorite WW1 Film also - not counting

of course!

 

If you can fly a Sopwith Camel - you can fly anything!

 

 

 

 

 

Yikes. Seeing your wingman's body tumbling in flames certainly dampers one taste for prancing about with the Huns.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Seeing as how we are talking about WWI aviation books here, and since I am rather fond of the collection I've managed to scrape together over the years and take pleasure in showing it off a bit, (please forgive my indulgence), here again are the tomes in my personal Great War library:

 

 

Personal Narratives and Biographies:

 

"A Flying Fighter", E.M. Roberts, (1918 1st Edition)

"Airmen O' War", Boyd Cable, (1918 1st Edition)

"An Airman Marches", Harold Balfour, (Vintage Aviation Library Edition)

"An Aviator’s Field-Book", Oswald Bolcke, English Translation, (1917 1st Edition)

"A Rattle Of Pebbles: The First World War Diaries Of Two Canadian Airmen", Brereton Greenhous, (1987 1st Edition)

"Cavalry of the Clouds", Alan ‘Contact’ Bott, (1918 1st Edition)

"Cloud Country", Jimmie Mattern, (1936 Pure Oil 1st Edition) 3-volume set

"Days on the Wing", Willy Coppens, English Translation, (1931 1st Edition)

"Death in the Air", William Heinemann, (1933 Edition) (famous faked aerial photos)

"Double-Decker C.666", Haupt Heydemarck, English Translation, (1931 1st Edition)

"En L’air!", Bert Hall, (1918 1st Edition)

"Fighting the Flying Circus", Edward Rickenbacker, (1919 1st Edition)

"Five Years in the Royal Flying Corps", James McCudden, (1918 1st Edition)

"Flying for France", James McConnell, (1917 1st Edition)

"Go Get 'Em!", William Wellman, (1918 1st Edition)

"Guynemer, Knight of the Air", Henry Bordeaux, English Translation, (1918 1st Edition)

"Heaven High, Hell Deep", Norman Archibald, (1935 Signed 1st Edition)

"High Adventure", James Norman Hall, (1918 1st Edition)

"Immelmann: The Eagle of Lille", Franz Immelmann, English Translation, (1930 1st Edition)

"In The Clouds Above Bagdad", J.E. Tennant, (1920 1st Edition)

"Kitchener's Mob", James Norman Hall, (1916 1st Edition)

"Letters From a Flying Officer", Rothsay Stuart Wortlrey, (1928 1st Edition)

"Memories of World War 1", William Mitchell, (1960 Edition)

"Night Bombing with the Bedouins", Robert Reece, (Battery Press Edition)

"Nocturne Militaire", Elliot White Springs, (1934 Edition)

"Rovers of the Night Sky", W.J. ‘Night-Hawk’ Harvey, (Vintage Aviation Library Edition)

"Sagittarius Rising", Cecil Lewis, (1936 Edition, 1st US printing)

"Stepchild Pilot", Joseph Doerflinger, (1959 1st Edition)

"The Flying Poilu", Marcel Nadaud, English Translation (1918 1st Edition)

"The Red Knight of Germany", Floyd Gibbons, (1927 1st Edition)

"The Way of the Eagle", Charles Biddle, (1919 1st Edition)

"True Stories of the Great War", (1918 1st Edition) 6-volume set

"Up And At 'Em", Harold Hartney, (1940 1st Edition)

"War Birds; Diary of an Unknown Aviator", Elliot White Springs, (1926 1st Edition)

"Whom The Gods Love", Lewis C. Merrill, (1953 1st Edition)

"Wind in the Wires", Duncan Grinnell-Milne, (1918 1st Edition)

"Winged Warfare", William Bishop, (1918 1st Edition)

"Winged Peace", William Bishop, (1940 1st Edition)

"With the Earth Beneath", A.R. Kingsford, (1936 1st Edition)

 

 

History, Reference, and General Interest Books:

 

"Air Aces of the 1914-1918 War", Bruce Robertson, (1964 Edition)

"Aircraft of Today", Charles Turner, (1917 1st Edition)

"Aviation in Canada 1917-18", Alan Sullivan, (1919 1st Edition)

"Colliers New Photographic History of the World War", (1917 Edition)

"Decisive Air Battles of the First World War", Arch Whitehouse, (1963 1st Edition)

"Fighter Aircraft of the 1914-1918 War", W.M. Lamberton, (1964 Edition)

"Flying The Old Planes", Frank Tallman, (1973 Edition)

"Fragments From France", Bruce Bairnsfather, (1917 1st Edition) (Great War cartoons by the master of the genre)

"Heros of Aviation", Laurence La Tourette Driggs, (1919 1st Edition)

"Historic Airships", Rupert Holland, (1928 1st Edition)

"History and Rhymes of the Lost Battalion", L.C. McCollum, (1929 Edition)

"History of the World War", Francis March, (1918 1st Edition)

"History of the Great World War", Rolt-Wheeler and Drinker, (1919 1st Edition)

"Land and Water" Magazine, (entire April through September 1917 series, hard bound, ex-library copy)

"National Geographic" Magazine, (entire 1918 series, hard bound, ex-library copy)

"Reconnaissance & Bomber Aircraft of the 1914-1918 War", W.M. Lamberton, (1962 Edition)

"Source Records of the Great War", (1923 1st Edition) 7-volume set

"The First War Planes", William Barrett, (1960 Edition) (the one that started it all for me)

"The Great Air War", Aaron Norman, (1968 Edition)

"The Great War", George H. Allen, (1919 1st Edition) 5-volume set

"The Great War in the Air", Edgar Middleton, (1920 1st Edition) 4-volume set

"The Lafayette Flying Corps", by James Hall and Charles Nordhoff, (1964 Kennikat Press limited edition two-volume set)

"The United States in the Great War", Willis Abbot, (1919 1st Edition)

"The U.S. Air Service in World War I", Maurer Maurer, (1978 1st Edition) 4-volume set

"True Stories of the Great War", (1918 1st Edition) 6-volume set

"U.S. Official Pictures of the World War", Moore and Russell, (1924 1st Edition) 4-volume set

1920 World Book Encyclopedia, (entire set with addendums, great for cross-referencing in an historical context)

"Time-Life Epic of Flight", 23-volume set, (not old and not strictly WWI but still a lot of good info and photos)

"The War in the Air", Raleigh and Jones, (1st Edition) 9-volume set including map cases, (originally in the military library at Whitehall; my personal Jewel of the Crown)

 

 

Instructional Books:

 

"Aeroplane Construction and Operation", John Rathbun, (1918 1st Edition)

"English-French War Guide for Americans in France", Eugene Maloubier, (1918 Edition)

"Learning to Fly in the U.S. Army", E.N. Fales, (1917 1st Edition)

"Lewis Machine Gun ‘Airplane Type’ Service and Operation Manual", (1918 Edition)

"Manual Of Rigging Notes Technical Data", (1918, possible reprint)

"Practical Flying", W.G. Minnies, (1918 1st Edition)

"The Art of Reconnaissance", David Henderson, (1916 1st Edition)

"Science of Pre-Flight Aeronautics", (1942 Edition)

"Self-Help for the Citizen Soldier", Moss and Stewart, (1915 1st Edition)

 

 

And yes, I have read them all at least once, and quite a few more than that. I dearly love old books.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

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[Dej 17]

The scene you're referring to can be seen in this YouTube clip:

 

Aces High Clip

 

''''

 

Cheers Mike and Creaghorn (PM) for the links. I might compile a list of cut scenes and have a whinge over at Amazon

[Creaghorn 10]

It all depends on how Badly you wish to see it, as the programs Do Exist to alter existing DVD players to different regions on Demand. But they aren't FREE

 

When I looked in at the situation a few years ago, the cost was like $29.95.

 

What scared me away, was the possibility of turning the DVD player in my computer into an ashtray, after 3 changes

 

If it was for a cheapo tabletop unit, I would've jumped at it

 

I have a 3 DVD set, a documentary about the Air War, alas it's from Australia "Days of Thunder" but I bought it cheap . . . Like 22USD including the shipping. . . So now it just gathers dust

 

as i posted before above, but obviously was unseen,

 

you might type your dvd player into google and look for a way to decode. usually almost all dvd players have a certain combination of buttons on your remote, which unlocks the regional setting. worth a try

 

p.s. similar to the fatality modes in mortal kombat

 

i would google the dvd player type (best from manual) xy etc. and write "unicode".

[Rugbyfan1972 1]

.

"An Airman Marches", Harold Balfour, (Vintage Aviation Library Edition)

 

RAFL,

 

How would you rate the above book as a read, and also does it only cover the first world war?

 

The reason I am asking is that I have read a few accounts of Harold Balfour's life as a WW1 airman in the following books:

 

Somme Success - Author Peter Hart (not too sure about this one)

Bloody April - Author Peter Hart

Aces Falling - Author Peter Hart

Years of Combat - Author Sholto Douglas

Voices in Flight - Author Anna Malinovska

 

And I am interested in his first World War career mainly and not too bothered about reading a book where half of it covers his Second World War experiences.

 

Thanks

Rugbyfan1972

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Rugbyfan, Balfour's book is a good little read and deals almost completely with his WWI career. The book was first published in 1923 and it's really only the last couple of chapters where he talks about his time in Cairo in 1919 and points beyond. It is his own account so it is well worth going through for his personal insights and feelings.

 

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[themightysrc 5]

"In the air, Arthur Gould Lee's 'No Parachute' is without equal in my personal opinion, topping even Cecil Lewis"

 

Absolutely. Lee is more doctrinaire in some aspects than Lewis, but it is absolutely and authentically the voice of a pilot in a period of horrible losses and uncertainty. I unreservedly recommend it if you can find a copy. Also, very highly recommended, so that you understand the context and the vast implications of the war, do yourself a massive favour and track down (it's not hard!) a copy of Hew Strachan's history of WWI. He is a peerless historian who writes like a novelist; if you've ever read Shelby Foote's history of the American Civil War you'll have an idea of what I'm talking about.

 

HTH,

Si

[Javito1986 14]

No Parachute is damn hard to find. I found that in my High School library some... oh, it must've been five years ago now. Used to read it during my lunch breaks, it was definitely a great work. I believe I might pick up Sagittarius Rising in the near future, that sounds right up my alley.

[Bullethead 12]

This is in the United States, mind you. Maybe in European countries WW1 has left a great footprint on the public conscious? Over here people straight up forget, probably because the U.S. was only in it such a brief time comparatively. On 11/11 one news anchor mentioned that Veteran's Day commemorates the end of World War 1 and his fellow anchorwoman said "Really? I didn't know that" and I wanted to be like *Judo-chop!*

 

If you want an example of how bad this is, read the introduction of To Conquer Hell, by Edward G. Lengel in 2008. Note that date. As it says there, this is the ONLY serious historical study of the Meuse-Argonne battle in US print since the official recap by the US Army just after WW1. Yet this was the BIGGEST BATTLE EVER FOUGHT by the US Army, at least in terms of numbers of troops engaged. And more guys got killed in that battle, which lasted just a couple months, than in 10 years in Viet Nam. That was the result of Pershing still believing in French 1914 bayonet tactics. Anyway, you wanted WW1 books, so I recommend this one.

 

I don't have a single favorite WW1 book, but I have a fairly long list of good ones everybody should read. Besides the above, these include:

• A Rifleman Went to War and The Emma Gees, by H.W. McBride
• Infantry Attacks, by Irwin Rommel
• A Naval Histroy of World War One, by Paul G. Halpern
• The Guns of August, by Barbara Tuchman
• Tannebert: Clash of Empires, by Dennis E. Showalter
• The Brusilov Offensive, by Timothy C. Dowling
• The Forgotten Front: The East African Campaign, by Ross Anderson
• Jutland: Analysis of the Fighting, by NJM Campbell
• The Rules of the Game, by Andrew Gordon
• Bloody April... Black September, by Norman Franks, Russell Guest, and Frank Bailey

Note that more than half of these were published in the last decade or 2. I wish I could find some English-language books on the Gebirgskrieg along the Austrian-Italian Front, but even the German and Italian originals are long out of print, I'm afraid. If anybody can point me to something, I'd be most appreciative.

 

Movies.... I haven't seen many WW1 movies, actually, and have liked even fewer. Those I liked included:

 

• The Price of Glory
• The Light Horsemen
• The Battleship Potemkin (a bit pre-WW1, but the best propaganda film ever made so worth seeing <G>).
• Hell's Angels (mostly because it's SO bad--great to watch while drunk)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Javito1986 14]

If you want an example of how bad this is, read the introduction of To Conquer Hell, by Edward G. Lengel in 2008. Note that date. As it says there, this is the ONLY serious historical study of the Meuse-Argonne battle in US print since the official recap by the US Army just after WW1.

 

 

 

 

 

That is absolutely obscene. In fact it's outright vile. I can't imagine when it was that WW2 so completely overtook the American public's memory of WW1.

 

I remembered the Paths of Glory today. Now that is one hell of a great WW1 movie. So damn sad too. It's going to be 2017 soon, I for one am anxiously anticipating the French government releasing its files on the 1917 Mutinies.

[Dej 17]

No Parachute is damn hard to find. I found that in my High School library some... oh, it must've been five years ago now. Used to read it during my lunch breaks, it was definitely a great work. I believe I might pick up Sagittarius Rising in the near future, that sounds right up my alley.

 

Keep looking on ebay, 'No Parachute' pops up from time to time and if you're lucky you'll not have a bidding war for it. 'Sagittarius Rising' is still widely available. Can't believe 'No Parachute' isn't reprinted every few years, it deserves to be.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

AbeBooks always has copies of "No Parachute" listed, and in all price ranges. And I agree, it is one of the outstanding firsthand accounts on the subject.

 

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