Battle of St. Mihiel - major squadrons involved?

[Hellshade 110]

12 Sept 1918 was, I believe, the start of the Battle of St. Mehiel, which also happened to be the largest air battle of the war. Does anyone know which squadrons, bomber and fighter, of both the German and Allied side were the major players in the air campaign?

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

Hellshade

Edited November 20, 2010 by Hellshade

[Olham 164]

You have a typo there - it must be St. Mihiel. Perhaps you find something over at the Aerodrome - here is the link:

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/isearch/index.php?domains=www.theaerodrome.com&q=St.+Mihiel&sa=Google+Search&sitesearch=www.theaerodrome.com&client=pub-9021205038260322&forid=1&channel=0029775758&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23000000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23BAB79F%3BVLC%3A000000%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3ABAB79F%3BLBGC%3A918D70%3BALC%3A000000%3BLC%3A000000%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A000000%3BGIMP%3A000000%3BLH%3A0%3BLW%3A0%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaerodrome.com%2Fimages%2Fsearch.gif%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2F%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en

Edited November 20, 2010 by Olham

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Hellshade, for the list of US squadrons involved and all the info pertaining to that side you will want to go to Mauer's "The U.S. Air Service In World War One, Volume III: The Battle of St. Mihiel" which, luckily for you, is online in full view form:

 

CLICK HERE

 

Go to page 127 for the complete U.S. listing at the start of the operations.

 

And for those who may not know, St. Mihiel is pronounced San'-mee-yel.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

.

[Olham 164]

Hellshade - I hope my request for a "full movie with lots of action" won't make you try

to top any WW1 air combat movies ever made? Keep in mind, that FRAPS still needs

a decent frame rate, old boy!

With the battle of St. Mihiel, you might have too many planes around?

I don't want, that your rig may blow up or melt down?!

[Hellshade 110]

Outstanding information Lou! Thank you very much. I see American fighter squadrons and french bomber squadrons listed. Did the British not participate in this battle?

Does anyone by chance know which German squadrons were hit hardest (saw a lot of action) during the overwhelming attack?

 

Olham, don't worry about the number of planes. I think I can manage those with some tricks. Just don't be suprised if this one takes a little while. I've got an idea...

 

Hellshade

Edited November 20, 2010 by Hellshade

[Olham 164]

Hellshade, I didn't find anything quickly, but here is an online map showing you airfield and squadron locations

(not always quite right though, but it's a help anyway). Just choose in the above "By date", and select the date

you want. Then you will get dots for the airfields which were operational on that day.

Move the cursor over the dots to read the squadron or Jasta.

 

I think you can assume, that only Jastas close enough to St. Mihiel (middle between Verdun and Metz, a bit south of both)

would have been involved-

 

http://patriot.net/~...end/WW1AirMap2/

Edited November 20, 2010 by Olham

[Hellshade 110]

Hellshade, I didn't find anything quickly, but here is an online map showing you airfield and squadron locations

(not always quite right though, but it's a help anyway). Just choose in the above "By date", and select the date

you want. Then you will get dots for the airfields which were operational on that day.

Move the cursor over the dots to read the squadron or Jasta.

 

I think you can assume, that only Jastas close enough to St. Mihiel (middle between Verdun and Metz, a bit south of both)

would have been involved-

 

http://patriot.net/~...end/WW1AirMap2/

 

Extremely helpful sir. Thank you kindly!

Any idea on where I go to edit a pilots status so I can change the date, etc?

 

 

Hellshade

Edited November 20, 2010 by Hellshade

[Bullethead 12]

12 Sept 1918 was, I believe, the start of the Battle of St. Mehiel, which also happened to be the largest air battle of the war. Does anyone know which squadrons, bomber and fighter, of both the German and Allied side were the major players in the air campaign?

 

For the Entente side, I quote the OOB shown in the 2nd half of Blood April... Black September, by Norman Franks, Russell Guest, and Frank Bailey, which IMHO is about the definitive work on the subject in terms of what happened. This book, however, doesn't list a German OOB, mostly because nearly every Jasta and Ket was involved at some point during the St. Mehiel / Meuse-Argonne, which all kinda blended into one big battle.

 

Anyway, the Entente OOB, the largest concentration of airpower to day and under US command, looked like this:

 

1st US Army Air Service HQ

 

American Air Service Units

 

1st Pursuit Group (Rembercourt)

• 27th Pursuit
• 94th Pursuit
• 95th Pursuit
• 147th Pursuit
• "C' Flight 648 Squadron

1st Pursuit Wing (Toul)

 

• 13th Pursuit
• 22nd Pursuit
• 49th Pursuit
• 139th Pursuit

3rd Pursuit Group (Vaucouleurs #1)

 

• 28th Pursuit
• 93rd Pursuit
• 103rd Pursuit
• 213th Pursuit

Groupe de Combat 16 (Vaucouleurs #2)

 

• Spa.78
• Spa.112
• Spa.150
• Spa.151

 

1st Day Bombardment Group (Amanty)

• 11th Bombardment
• 20th Bombardment
• 96th Bombardment

1st Corps Observation Group (Toul)

 

• 1st Observation
• 12th Observation
• 50th Observation
• "B" Flight, 648 Squadron
• Br.208
• Br.214

4th Corps Observation Group (Ourches)

 

• 8th Observation
• 90th Observation
• 135th Observation

5th Corps Observation Group (Benoite-Vaux)

 

• 88th Observation
• 99th Observation
• 104th Observation
• Spa.42

Army Observation Group (Gondreville)

 

• 24th Observation
• 91st Observation
• "B" Flight 255 Squadron

Army Artillery Observation Group (Ligny-en-Barrois)

 

• Br.206
• Br.219
• Br.225
• Br.234

<P dir=ltr>French Night Bombardment Group (Epiez)

• CAP.115
• CAP.130

 

Italian Gruppo di Bombardement 18 (Capitano De Riso)

• Squadriglia 3
• Squadriglia 14
• Squadriglia 15
• 9th Night Bombardment

 

French 1st Division Aerienne

 

Groupe de Combat 15 (Ochey)

• Spa.27
• Spa.81
• Spa.93
• Spa.97

Groupe de Combat 18 (Ochey)

 

• Spa.48
• Spa.94
• Spa.153
• Spa.155

Groupe de Combat 19 (Ochey)

 

• Spa.73
• Spa.85
• Spa.95
• Spa.96

Group de Bombardement 5 (Martigney)

 

• Br.117
• Br.120
• Br.127

Groupe de Bombardement 6 (Tantonville)

 

 

• Br.11
• Br.66
• Br.108

Groupe de Bombardement 9 (Neufchateau)

 

• Br.29
• Br.123
• Br.129

Groupe de Combat 13 (Brabant-le-Roi)

 

• Spa.15
• Spa.69
• Spa.84
• Spa.88

Groupe de Combat 17 (Pargny)

 

• Spa.77
• Spa.89
• Spa.91
• Spa.100

Groupe de Combat 20 (Pargny)

 

• Spa.69
• Spa.99
• Spa.159
• Spa.162

Groupe de Bombardement 3 (Combles)

 

• Br.107
• Br.126
• Br.1328

Groupe de Bombardment 4 (St. Dizier)

 

• Br.131
• Br.132
• Br.134
• C.46

<P dir=ltr>French 2nd Colonial Corps (Rumont)

• Sal.28
• C.47
• Br.236
• Sal.277
• 183rd Aero (Mobile Park No. 1)

<P dir=ltr>British Independent Air Force (Azelot)

 

Day Bombardment

• 55 Squadron
• 99 Squadron
• 104 Squadron
• 110 Squadron

Night Bombardment

 

• 97 Squadron
• 100 Squadron
• 115 Squadron
• 215 Squadron
• 216 Squadron

[Olham 164]

It must have been a terrible mess - a meat grinder in the air, so to say!

I wonder, how many aircraft were lost due to collisions in that battle?

[Bullethead 12]

It must have been a terrible mess - a meat grinder in the air, so to say!

I wonder, how many aircraft were lost due to collisions in that battle?

 

Not many, from what I can tell. The Franks/Guest/Bailey book tries had to show the cause of every lost plane and I don't recall many being from collisions.

 

In "Black September", the Entente lost way more planes than in "Bloody April". However, it was a rather lower percent of the forces engaged, and the Germans really didn't stop the Entente from carrying out its missions, so it wasn't as noticeable as it had been earlier.

[Olham 164]

Not many, from what I can tell.

The Franks/Guest/Bailey book tries had to show the cause of every lost plane and I don't recall many being from collisions.

 

Incredible! Collision is my No.1 death reason by far in OFF. I wonder how they all managed to keep the overview!

[Hellshade 110]

Not many, from what I can tell.

The Franks/Guest/Bailey book tries had to show the cause of every lost plane and I don't recall many being from collisions.

 

Incredible! Collision is my No.1 death reason by far in OFF. I wonder how they all managed to keep the overview!

 

They went to "Hellshade's School of Air Combat". If you can't shake their hand, you shouldn't be opening fire.

 

Hellshade

[Hasse Wind 46]

Not many, from what I can tell.

The Franks/Guest/Bailey book tries had to show the cause of every lost plane and I don't recall many being from collisions.

 

Incredible! Collision is my No.1 death reason by far in OFF. I wonder how they all managed to keep the overview!

 

They flew more carefully most of the time. And quite a few of the squadrons were actually B/R squadrons, so not that much dogfighting took place among them.