UK_Widowmaker 571 Posted January 25, 2011 Nice one Jessie Very patriotic...... You obviously never had kids then?....and of course, she'd never get her little hands dirty would she? She should stay in the damn Kitchen where she belongs! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flyby PC 23 Posted January 25, 2011 Yes, but don't be too harsh on her. There were a lot of Jessie Popes around back then. She was very popular because what she said resonated with public opinion. Wilfred Owens words would probably have raised more eyebrows at the time, (although perhaps not with the veterans at the front). In fact, the dedication to Pope was quickly dropped because attacks on her might be percieved as wider attacks on patriotism. At the time, she was singing precisely the right tune. Dulce et Decorum Est wasn't published until the 20's, but Owen was shot in the head by a sniper a week before the war ended. I don't think Owen resented her personally, just her niaivity and the 'propaganda' aspect of her work - but that's just as I understand it. I'm not very well read on the subject. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hasse Wind 46 Posted January 25, 2011 The rest of the European powers didn't have that problem, as every able-bodied man was already conscripted for military service. In 1914-1915 Britain had a really small volunteer army compared to the massive conscript armies of the continental powers. Before the war the men in France, Germany and Russia had to spend two or three years in armed service, which made it possible to quickly mobilize huge armies from the reservists in 1914. Quite soon it became obvious that volunteers were not enough to supply the British armies with adequate numbers of men. The casualties were simply too heavy for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) The event with the "feather-woman" on the bus shows one thing to me so well: how easily we sometimes act with prejudice, without knowing the truth.. Edited January 25, 2011 by Olham Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flyby PC 23 Posted January 25, 2011 Words and opinions can be made to mean anything. At the end of the day, it's one poet versus another. The very real tragedy for me is getting shot in the head a week before it's all over. Waste upon waste.... Hasse Wind is absolutely right about the Brits, but after the first full time professional British Army came the mass of volunteers responding to Kitchener's famous poster. These weren't conscripted men, all 2.5 million of them were volunteers, and many came from all over the Commonwealth. This new army, called Kitcheners Army or Kitcheners Mob was initially derided by the professional soldiers. It was this new army which included the famous Pals battalions etc. However it became clear very quickly that artillery and german machine guns weren't particulary good at telling the difference between a professional soldier and a volunteer, and very soon they were all brothers in arms. Conscripted British troops didn't arrive in France until 1916 once the demand for volunteers was beginning to falter. Concription came in, in January, but it was later in the year before the conscripted troops arrived at the front. The Somme didn't start until July 1916, but it was Galliploi in 1915/16 which caused new volunteer numbers to fall. By 1916 and then onwards, there were enough stories coming back from the front to make young men think twice, but as Hasse Wind says correctly, by the middle of 1916, the Battles of the Somme had ripped apart many volunteer battalions and the numbers couldn't be made up any other way than conscription. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted January 25, 2011 The Great War sure was an incredibly great waste of young men before their time should have come. Like the return of the German pilots for example, when the Soldatenrat had taken over power - they had fought for Germany in the Great War, and now, at their return, their shoulder pieces got ripped off, many where beaten and insulted, some even were killed. War offers so many kinds of tragedy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davy TASB 0 Posted January 25, 2011 ....and of course, she'd never get her little hands dirty would she? She should stay in the damn Kitchen where she belongs! Are you Andy Gray???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Javito1986 14 Posted January 25, 2011 Words and opinions can be made to mean anything. At the end of the day, it's one poet versus another. The very real tragedy for me is getting shot in the head a week before it's all over. Waste upon waste.... Agreed, I always think about such thing. Like that fellow who was killed at literally the last minute of the war. But really, it's not any better than everyone else who died in 1914/15/16/17/18 you know? People focus on the ones who, dammit, if they'd just kept their heads down a few more minutes they would have made it, but really it just serves to emphasize the -massive- waste of the entire conflict since everyone's death was equally tragic. Saying for example, "20,000 British killed on the First Day of the Somme" is rather easy, since 20,000 is just a statistic, but you'll literally drive yourself mad with grief if you go into the records and start reading about each and every individual killed on that day in that army alone. Unbelievable the things we've done to each other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
