SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[+EricJ 4,245]

Honestly I think I got lucky on that 'winder shot from the F-14 as opposed to flares, remembering the trail he tried to pop me as I was coming up vertical and I zoomed too fast for a good intercept. But I like that "kill group" as that's what they did, the first to were the bait and the second pair hung around like vultures waiting to get me.

[+EricJ 4,245]

Me: F-14D (06) with 4 x AIM-9M and 4 x AIM-7M (I think), tanks and gun

Opposition: F-4E with 4 x Sidewinder and 4 x Sparrow, gun

Strike Fighters 2: North Atlantic

 

Started off neutral and one thing I learned was somehow the F-4 turns better than "normal" but then again an FM update may have happened so I'll leave this one alone. In previous DACT sessions if I turn in and hesitate I get fed a sidewinder (in a Tomcat) so when I turn into him on full burner I let him pass and then enter an energy circle. The F-4 does this for a couple times and I'm forced to drop flaps in order to maintain my turn (readers have to realize... well new readers have to realize I don't fly the Tomcat much, so still stuck in Super Hornet mode here) and keep my nose generally on him. After he ends up near the ground I retract my flaps and then get behind him, as he's out of energy and now I have him to myself. And after taking the second shot I almost managed to overshoot him and so I throttled down to idle and let him get some distance. The third shot I fire my first 9M and it explodes him.

 

Takeaways. I honestly expected an easier fight as I've kinda wanted to try more Tomcat flying as opposed to Super Hornet flying (hell I've flown the s#$# out of it) and learn a new plane. But to the beginner pilot: Take it easy and sometimes just starting with the easier jets gets you more in tune with how the aircraft flew. Back on topic the F-4 isn't a bad plane to start with and fairly easy to get behind. Usually when it starts to run out of energy it'll start leveling off (or it just can't see you) and then jink to try and throw off whatever you may throw at it. But it's good to learn something different.

[+EricJ 4,245]

Me: F/A-18F EPE with 2 x AIM-9X and 8 x AIM-120D, gun

Opposition: F-14D (06) with 4 x AIM-9M or X and 4 x AIM-7, gun

 

Started off neutral and when I turned right I ensured he came off my left side and he flew past, I turned into his pass, blacking out and then I relaxed and got sight of him, turned into him and then almost overshot. Dropped throttle to idle and deployed my brakes and he flew on, again I'm thinking its more of a visual thing so he extended. I didn't risk a 9X shot (flares mainly) and instead shot him down with an AMRAAM.

 

Takeaways. Reaction time is more important on this one rather than anything else, and the better turning capability of my aircraft. Sure the D had more powerful engines but sometimes you have to use your long reach. But that's becoming a point with most of the DACT sessions I posted today and also the ones I didn't post but did. Flares are becoming more effective in SF2:NA and shows something else, if you don't feel good making an IR shot, and you have a radar homer, shoot that instead. Then again the other point is just reaction time and aware of what you're about to walk into. Had I not paid attention this session wouldn't work out as it should, it would just mean I got shot down.

[Caesar 305]

F-14A_74 vs F-4N Phantom II (1v2)

 

Loadouts:

F-14A: 4x AIM-9H, 4x AIM-7E-2, gun, 75% fuel

F-4N: 4x AIM-9H, 4x AIM-7E-2, 100% fuel

 

Generally, this was a one-sided match. The F-14 having superior aerodynamics, and similar thrust to weight compared to the F-4. The F-4N does not feature slats, which does not help its turning performance. I know that it has a lower sustained "g" across the board, and that it bleeds speed faster than the F-14.

 

Fight starts neutral. Split into bait and attacker. In this case, I take the bait, since I know I have 4 Sparrow and 4 Sidewinder. If I can splash the bait, I don't have to worry about circling with the attacker and getting shot while I'm distracted. Get the bait aircraft on my nose fairly quickly with a 7.5g turn into the Phantoms. Lock up the bait, FOX 1! Missile comes off the rails stupid. FOX 1; #2 and #3 in the air! #3 looks like it has the Phantom, when just before impact, it too goes stupid. FOX 1 #4, comes off the rails stupid. Great. I realize I'm not going to be able to close with this guy, and about a second later, I get "spiked" by the second F-4's radar (took him a while to get his nose around).

 

 

 

Jammer on, pull into a hard right turn. As I get 90 degrees to his radar, he fires at me. I can't get him visual yet, but I know he's got rounds coming my way and begin pumping chaff out the back of the jet in bursts of 4 as I continue my turn. The F-4 is above me and still closing. At about 1200 feet he looses another AIM-7 at me, but this has no chance. As we pass, I press high into a loop to get on his tail. As I reach the apex of the loop, I start getting spiked by the second F-4, which has taken the time I spent defensive to put his nose against me. I begin coming down on the lead F-4, but roll my F-14 to start to try to close distance between myself and the second F-4. The RWR is telling me the second F-4 has locked me up, so I assume he's got a missile off. Wait a second or two, then start pumping chaff (running low). I continue diving low, and the F-4 actually looses me as I begin my pull up to avoid the ground. I was still at probably 5,000 feet, so I assume his nose was too high to sustain lock.

 

 

He passes me, while lead has been coming down to my level during the whole ordeal - I'm expecting to have another AIM-7 shot at me by him, but he is not in a firing position. As I pass #2, I pull the aircraft around to form a one-circle with #1 until I'm on #2's six. This doesn't take long. Select heater, tone, FOX 2! Goes for flares, so I launch a second set at him. The second AIM-9H guides true, through the flares, and into the Phantom, detonating him off my nose. Pull into Phantom #1 again. Just for kicks, I want to see how much "g" he has on his jet, since he seems to be trying to sustain speed in the 450-500KIAS or so region.

 

 

 

I put about 7g on the F-14, and turn the debug on to check the F-4. He's averaging 3-3.5g. I find myself on his tail in a matter of seconds. He begins to run. Get good tone, but fully expect my AIM-9 to miss, which it does. Close, guns, take out the right engine and flap. Fire another burst and get his other flap. The F-4 now goes into a climb. Line him up and fire another burst - missed there a bit low, so I adjust my nose position. I can't actually see the F-4 behind the smoke coming from the jet, but get the pipper about center on the F-4. Fire another burst, which I can hear strike the F-4. One more and the tail flies off. The aircraft falls into a flat spin, slowly descending to the desert floor.

 

 

 

 

F-14A_82 vs. F-4S Phantom II (1v1)

 

This fight will be a little different, since the F-4S Phantom II has slatted wings, which help its turning performance compared to the baseline Phantom.

 

Loadouts:

F-14A: 4x AIM-9L, 4x AIM-7M, gun, 75% fuel

F-4S: 4x AIM-9L, 4x AIM-7F, 100% fuel

 

The F-4S does have better turning performance, compared to the F-4N, but this fight was still quick. Like before, the F-4 was performing about a 3.5g turn into me, compared to my 7 into him. This put me nose-on the F-4 fairly quickly, but I didn't want to waste Sidewinders, so I have tone, nose on for a good five to ten seconds, while working to his direct six o'clock. I can't sustain 7g in the F-14A at this altitude and weight, however, and my pull has cost me. The F-4 begins descending, and I follow him in about a 5g turn, which he is now matching with gravity to aid him. I still have tone, and decide to loose a Sidewinder in his direction. The new AIM-9L comes off the rails stupid, and I continue my turn. Since I have built up some energy here, I pull hard on the stick.

 

 

This gets my nose closer, but not quite on his six. I hold the stick and burn through 250KIAS, whereupon I drop the flaps, and get nose directly onto the F-4's six. The F-4 reverses, and I loose another Sidewinder, which also comes off stupid. FOX 2 #3 and 4! Like before, it's the magic number 3 that guides home and destroys the Phantom.

 

 

 

F-14B_96 vs. F/A-18F EPE (1v1)

 

Loadouts:

F-14B: 4x AIM-9M, 2x AIM-7P, gun, 75% fuel

F/A-18F EPE: 2x AIM-9X, 8x AIM-120, gun, 100% fuel

 

I've done this fight before, but not with the new updates, combined FM, avionics updates, and whatnot, so here it is again. Generally speaking, the F-14B turns comparably to the F/A-18F EPE, it has the power to sustain its turns and doesn't bleed speed as quickly as the Super Hornet. Both aircraft are comparable across the envelope, so the name of the game is to get it slow. The Super Bug has excellent nose-pointing authority at slow speed, but a Tomcat with the big boys down, especially with the GE "push," does quite well at slow speeds, too.

 

Fight #1 was a bit of a joke. I pulled into the Super Bug at about 8g, and got nose-on very early. From my fight with the F-4S, knowing that the AIM-9L/M can miss just as easily from dead six o'clock, I decide to take a shot with the F/A-18F about perpendicular to my F-14. Wouldn't you know it, the Sidewinder found its target through the flares! The starboard stabilator comes off, and the F/A-18 starts running. Get to his direct six o'clock, fire a second, which lights the Bug on fire, but still doesn't kill it. Third AIM-9 takes the other stab, a flap, and the Bug departs. It takes a moment to crash into the desert floor.

 

 

 

I decided to perform a second fight because the first felt like a tech demonstration (Hey! Look what an all-aspect missile can do!) than an actual fight. So, start fight 2 like fight 1, this time with about a 7.5g turn into the Bug. Like the Rafale, the Super Bug is trying to keep the fight as a neutral energy circle. We descend in about a 5g sustained one-circle turn, advantage to my Tomcat. I can hear the tone going off, but I don't have quite enough authority to get the nose on. I pull a bit harder on purpose to get the speed down to where my flaps will drop. This gets my nose on the Bug and puts me into a firing position. FOX 2 on the Super Bug! This one misses, however, it has woken the Bug crew up. As the missile comes off the rails, the Super Bug pulls hard right, then reverses into me.

 

 

 

This starts a slow-speed horizontal scissors. The first iteration is neutral. The second iteration sees me behind the Bug, and the Bug tries to run like the Rafale, but with its flaps still down, he can't get energy fast enough. I fire a Sidewinder at the Bug as I begin to roll onto his tail (almost cost myself the position while taking the screen shot!) I can see this one is going to miss, so I fire a second. Two seconds later, the Bug detonates off the Tomcat's nose, and crashes into the desert floor shortly thereafter.

 

 

 

 

Takeaways:

Since turning the debug mode on, I've discovered the AI is great at keeping the fight neutral by working to sustain energy if it has an aircraft that allows it to do that. It usually won't resort to high "g" turns until you are behind its 3/9 line, then it starts pulling hard. Generally, the AI doesn't handle slow speed fights well, and so that's why I always try to get them slow - that and flaps. In a multi-target engagement, the story is different. You get slow there, one of the 6 other guys will notice and gun you while you're pushing against his wing man. There are also, however, far more target options, folks going offensive and defensive against different airplanes, etc.

 

In the F-14A, you have a better turning fighter than the F-4. Use sustained "g" turns to your advantage, since you have typically anywhere from 1 to 3g better sustained turns, depending on altitude and airspeed. This results in higher sustained turn rates. If you put the stick in your lap, however, you can burn your energy very quickly. Keeping the accelerometer at 6.5 at 450 KIAS at 5,000 feet and 53,000 pounds will keep you inside the Phantom, and you can typically hold 7.5g for a good deal of time at that speed. At 20,000 feet, you're looking around the 4.5g or so region, which is about 1g higher than I'm able to sustain in a Phantom.

 

Against the EPE F/A-18F, the F-14B (with Combined FM) handled the fight well. Until getting to very slow speeds, the aircraft were basically matched, though I had my nose on the F/A-18 for almost the entire fight, to include positional advantage during the energy circle that I was able to transfer to a shooting position as the energy got low.

[Caesar 305]

And now the flip side of the coin. F-4S vs. F-14A_82.

 

This took a few attempts, as the Tomcat shot me down twice, before I finally bagged him on the third attempt. Generally, he was offensive the entire time, and I got him with a lucky head-on shot with an AIM-9M on the third fight when we got into a horizontal scissors.

 

Loadouts:

F-4S: 4x AIM-9L, 4x AIM-7F, no gun, 100% internal fuel

F-14A: 2x AIM-9L, 3x AIM-7M, 2x AIM-54A, gun, 100% internal fuel

 

Fight #1 started with a one-circle that didn't last long. The F-4 cannot sustain the g that the Tomcat can, and I was finding myself at about a 4g turn into the threat. The F-14 had me spiked within seconds. He did not fire at me before the merge, however, he turned hard into me after we passed. I pulled into the vertical to try to loop around and shoot him in the ass, but was nearly out of speed at the apex of the turn and was not threatening by the time I was coming back down. In fact, the Tomcat had come around to my four o'clock as I was building energy, so I tried to pull right and into him. I pulled harder, then departed the F-4, as I didn't pay attention to the side-slip. Recovered the F-4 fairly quickly and found the F-14 was getting close to firing position. Pulled across the F-14 and he fired an AIM-9 at me. This one missed, and in a desperate attempt to force an overshoot, I pull vertical. The F-14 lines up and takes another shot that splashes my F-4.

 

 

 

 

Fight #2 I start by pulling into the F-14 to create a two-circle in hopes of getting nose-on quickly enough to threaten the F-14. This doesn't work, and the F-14 shoots at me as I'm still turning into him. This missile misses, and we pass each other. The F-14 goes low and I follow, eventually winding up in a horizontal scissors. I depart the F-4 again due to pulling too hard, only this time it happens with only about 1300 feet to work with. Punch out at 400 feet when it is obvious the F-4 isn't going to make it.

 

 

 

Fight #3 This fight starts as a two-circle engagement, only I press a bit harder at 5.8g. Again, the F-14 has the advantage. We both shoot at each other as we pass, and one of the F-14's Sidewinders scores a hit, but does nothing to my F-4. This fight was painfully defensive for me, and in spite of the two AIM-54, full fuel and otherwise heavy loadout, the Tomcat is basically man-handling the F-4. He gets two AIM-9 shots off during the fight, and I believe I departed the F-4 at least three times (once on purpose to screw with his gun solution). Fight went high and low, included yo-yo's, scissors, etc. To be frank, a lot of the time I was dealing with either not departing the F-4 or wondering about how much "g" I could get to deny a shot. I did get two shots on the F-14 when I got enough space and the Tomcat pilot was trying to get me ahead of his 3/9 line, but neither did anything.

 

 

 

At about 8 minutes in, I had the F-14 on my tail for a long time. I depart the F-4 as the F-14 lines up to shoot me with guns. The flat spin causes the F-14 to loose his tracking solution, and I recover the F-4 as the F-14 overshoots me. I get a little speed on the F-4, and pull into the F-14, who pulls into me. We are in a scissors, the first iteration, the F-14 is in a slightly better position than me. The AI, however, does not drop flaps, and this helps me. As he cuts across, I throw a bit of rudder into my roll, pull, and we're getting nose-on quick. The F-14, however, does not have any AIM-9's left! As I can see he's getting his nose on me, I fire an AIM-9 at him. He rolls away, starts deploying flares, but it doesn't work this time. The AIM-9 guides true and splashes the F-14.

 

 

Total fight time was 9 minutes and 23 seconds.

 

Takeaways: The AI doesn't fight well defensively in the F-14; it is prone to "rocking" the jet, but in this fight, it didn't go defensive often. If you can get behind the F-14's 3/9 line against the AI, you should have him easy enough. The heavy loadout combined with the fact that the AI doesn't use flaps probably helped me to finally beat the bird in the last fight, but I would likely have lost if he had another Sidewinder available. Generally, the F-4 really has to be moving to have any kind of sustained turning capability. Its vertical performance, although shown to outclass the MiG-17 and -21 in Vietnam, does not work well against the Tomcat. As it has been said, don't get the F-4 slow!

[+JonathanRL 974]

SAAB J 32B Lansen

vs

SAAB J 29F Tunnan

 

Edited April 30, 2012 by JonathanRL

[+EricJ 4,245]

Me: Typhoon beta with 4 x AIM-132 ASRAAM and tank, gun

Opposition: F/A-18C with 2 x AIM-9 and 2 AIM-7 Sparrow

 

Started off neutral as I wanted to take a test drive with the new (but old) Typhoon beta. Turning into the Hornet wasn't too difficult and after one energy circle the Hornet decided to go vertical which allowed me to launch an AIM-132 and splash him.

 

Takeways. Nothing new just a good indication that the beta is still as maneuverable as the older version. It looks great and now I need a dynamic campaign in Norway to finish it out. But if it was anything the Typhoon beta still delivers the same bang for the buck and allows you to take on those pesky light fighters (I honestly expected a more difficult fight with the Hornet, but that shot was too good to pass up).

[+EricJ 4,245]

Me: F-16AM Denmark with 4 x AIM-2000 IRST, centerline tank, gun

Opposition: Flogger-K with 4 x AA-8, gun

 

Started neutral and ended up on it's tail. After a short try on an energy circle, I locked the Flogger up and fired my first IRST, hitting the Flogger. I continued to let it fly and then it started to level out, firing a second IRST, with it going stoopid with the flares that were dropped (clean miss). Then I waited a few more seconds and fired my third IRST, downing the Mig.

 

Takeaways. The newer Viper is pretty darn nice to fly and a lot better than earlier versions and the IRST is a dream to shoot. Of course maybe the warhead or aspect made the difference but it's a nice ride so far

[Caesar 305]

A-7E_74 vs MiG-21bis

 

The A-7 is a light attack aircraft which served with the Navy from 1967 to 1996. During the F-14's inagural cruise, problems with the TF-30 engine resulted in the grounding of that aircraft until updated engines could be installed, resulting in the A-7, which could carry Sidewinder missiles, to take its place on Combat Air Patrol for a span of time. The Tomcat was back before Operation Frequent Wind kicked off, and participated in that final operation over SEA.

 

So...how does the ThirdWire A-7E of 1974 match up to the MiG-21bis?

 

Loadouts:

A-7E: 2x AIM-9L, gun, 100% fuel

MiG-21bis: 4x AA-8, gun, 100% fuel

 

First match was actually later, set in 1981, where the A-7 had AIM-9L all-aspect Sidewinders to help. To say the least, I was pleasantly surprised by the SLUF's performance, though perhaps it shouldn't have been surprising, since from what I have heard on the A-7, it could fight pretty well if properly handled.

 

This fight started as a one-circle engagement. The A-7 cannot sustain "g" as well as either the F-14 or the F-4, since even loaded with only AIM-9 and guns, it weighs over 20,000 pounds, and has at best about a 0.5:1 thrust to weight ratio. However, its wing loading is roughly equivalent to the MiG-21's, and although the Corsair II was bleeding speed with about 4.5g on the plane, it wasn't bleeding it fast enough to be problematic. The one-circle would stalemate, however, unless I forced the AI to get in the fight, and increased the "g" to about 5.5. This began bleeding speed a bit faster, and the MiG continued his left turn.

 

Okay, still need to break the stalemate. Roll inverted and complete a half-loop. I notice that the Fishbed is coming down to my altitude, and point my nose as I'm pulling up to threaten the MiG. I get tone as we pass by each other, roll and perform the same maneuver. This gets us closer to the deck and an energy circle begins. I'm not having any of that, so I reverse my circle, and I'm not having any of that. Initially, I pull high and drop the flaps, which helps to get my nose around. The problem is that the A-7's flaps are not as useful as I had hoped. The A-7 did get its nose around nearly the same time as the MiG-21 was getting his nose on me.

 

Raise flaps, we pass and I try to pull into the MiG's turn. This again begins to degrade into an energy circle, so I reverse. This is probably the smartest thing I could have done without realizing it. I get nose-on the MiG with enough distance to loose a Sidewinder his way and roll to begin chasing, should it fail. This missile impacts, but fails to kill or even damage the MiG. I try to follow up, but yet again, it starts to turn into an energy circle. Reverse again, this time I feel the MiG might get nose-on first, and I'm at about 250 KIAS. I want a bit more speed, so I go nose-low, continue my curl, and begin to pull up as I again get tone, nose on before the MiG. Fox 2, good kill. Total fight time, 3 minutes, 42 seconds.

 

 

 

The first engagement was a bit predictable. The MiG had rear-aspect missiles, I had all-aspect missiles. The A-7, however, did handle surprisingly well. So, it is about time to see how comparably equipped aircraft go head to head.

 

Loadouts:

A-7E: 2x AIM-9G, gun, 100% fuel

MiG-21bis: 4x AA-2, gun, 100% fuel

 

This fight was actually quite a bit quicker than the last. Neither aircraft was toting all-aspect missiles, but I now had a bit better idea of what the A-7 could do. This fight started the same as the last, one-circle, but about 5.5g into the threat, until I could see the MiG pushing a bit harder to get his nose on me. I pulled the stick into my lap, and the A-7 peaked in a 9g turn, quickly bleeding to about 6g by the time I released the stick. I was well inside the MiG's turn, but did not have an all aspect missile to shoot him with. The MiG continued to turn to put his nose on me. I pulled right to defend, then rolled back into the MiG.

 

The MiG went left in a descending turn, which I followed in the descent, which allowed gravity to assist the Corsair II in the turn. This gave the A-7 enough autority to gain up to about 330 KIAS and about 5.8g. The MiG from its prior tight turn, was failing to get me off his six. I got tone and figured I could take the shot. FOX 2, but the MiG was actually far enough along in his turn that it cut off the Sidewinder Seeker head and it lost track. However, I was firing from high and left, which allowed me to roll down and pull hard into him. The MiG must have continued burning energy by pulling too hard, and also pulling now into the vertical, because as I bottomed out my descending turn, he did not pull hard away.

 

This was his fatal mistake. The A-7 curled into firing parameters, and the MiG could not get a turn on to get away. FOX 2! The Sidewinder flew true and detonated just behind his cockpit, destroying the Fishbed. This fight was over in under 2 minutes (1m 57s).

 

 

 

 

Takeaways:

The A-7 has proven to be a surprisingly agile airplane, even at slow speeds. Both fights ended in between 240 and 310 KIAS, and the turning performance of the A-7 proved able to match or exceed the MiG-21's at the altitudes and airspeeds we were fighting. In both fights the Corsair was at least able to get inside the MiG's turn at high speeds, while augmented by gravity, was able to keep on the Fishbed's tail. Had the MiG not chosen to go low, the fight could have been different. Without the requisite thrust, if the MiG pushed hard vertical, it is more likely that the Corsair would not have handled as well.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Caesar

[+EricJ 4,245]

Me: Convair 201 with gun, 4 x AIM-9H

MIG-21 with 4 x Atoll

 

Started off neutral and the 201 has a very nice ability of turning into the target, though keep your pull tight but firm, don't pull into your groin when moving at high speeds. Managed to come and due to no symbology for the 'winders I fired one off, forgetting it's not all-aspect and it sailed past the MIG-21, who tried to gun me down. He flew past me and I turned back into him, going into a small energy circle, this is where pulling firm not hard on the stick paid off, with me firing my second -9H into him, with it tracking into him and killing him.

 

Takeaways. Third bout with the 201 and say it's not too shabby as far as ACM goes. And also... it doesn't matter what time period the MIG-21 is still a good warm up jet...

[+EricJ 4,245]

Me: Convair 201 with 4 x AIM-9L and gun

Opposition: MF F-14B with Caesar beta FM, some kind of missiles, I know AIM09 for sure...

 

Due to some mission editing, my DACT has turned into a "Speed and Angels" setup (as from the movie) with him off to my starboard at a disadvantage, not much anyway. After turning into the Turkey I managed to end up in a long and drawn out energy circle, with none of us giving up. After a minute or two I did what I knew is never a good idea people, reversing into the bandit. Remember it has computer reflexes but as soon as I got a good tone I fired, and he fired, crossing my shot (second image), after that the Turkey was defensive and after leading I took another shot, exploding the canopy and downing the bird.

 

Takeaways: This perhaps my third or so time flying the 201 and overall it is a good plane, the canards help bring the nose up quickly but you have to remember the engine doesn't give much push so you'll bleed airspeed rather quick. So to work the bird you have to just keep your energy up. However, it is a good fighter just needs a better engine (probably one of the reasons it didn't make it).

[+EricJ 4,245]

Me: F-14B with Ceasar beta FM and 4 x AIM-9M, gun

Opposition: Convair 201 with AIM-9, gun

 

This was actually prior to the above fight, but I like to see what I can do. Started off as above and once committed to the fight I found myself flying around a little aimlessly (still a newbie with the Turkey) but after trying to go high (a maneuver designed to outclimb the opposition through an Aerolog film) I rolled over as best as I could and managed to finally after some trying, managed to get in a decent position. After remembering what Caesar does I dropped flaps and it helped greatly in getting my nose on him. After a bit he was crossing my HUD so I took a shot and after missing the Convair leveled out slightly and then I took a second shot, downing it.

 

Takeaways: With the beta FM my confidence is getting better with the bird and gives the Tomcat a more feel and what (I guess is to be expected) from the jet. Not exactly Top Gun but it's getting closer to what I've seen, check it out sometime though, very good idea as a workaround to the old MF flight model.

[Caesar 305]

This is a set of Dissimilar Air Combat Training (DACT) reports - GUNS only!

 

F-14A+ Tomcat vs. Su-27 Flanker-B gun fight

 

This fight had been done before, but the F-14A+ (B) that I'm flying is using a new flight model - Combined Flight Model version 2 (CFMv2) which will hopefully be released in the next few days. It is based on the ThirdWire flight model, but also includes elements of the older FM, specifically the flaps/slats and spoilers.

 

Fight started about 20 miles apart. I initially locked the Su-27 up at about 18 miles away, and he promptly began to beam my radar, although neither of us had missiles. Working the angles with the nose to prevent him from going perpendicular and causing a relative closure of 0 (would have broken lock), I maintained lock on the Flanker and took a lag persuit vector, knowing he'd probably turn his nose into me as the distance closed. Wouldn't you know it, at about 5 miles he did just that. I could see his velocity vector change to point at my jet, and pulled myself a little right of the vector, then rolling towards the Flanker to spoil his shot. He pulled into me, but was never able to achieve a snap shot. What happened next was an energy circle.

 

 

The Flanker was not putting on a sustained g turn, but instead varying g between about 5 and 9. I was at a steady 6.5g throughout the first circle we traveled, building to about 7.2. After travelling through about half of the second circle, his pulling was burning his energy, while mine maintained, but I wasn't gaining good enough positional advantage. I was now behind his 3-9 line and it was time to pay the maintainers with a keg.

 

I allowed the g to build to about 10, burning energy quickly, but also putting me on the Flanker's tail. Unfortunately, as the "g" declined, I wasn't burning energy fast enough (I had gotten on his tail inside of 1 mi!) and I realized I was going to overshoot. Full stab deflection into the vertical, left rudder and cut the engines to try to stay inside the Flanker. I rolled and pulled into him, from my position straight down towards ground, but my Tomcat went right in front of his nose. He must not have had a firing solution, since I was not a fireball. Flaps, roll back into the Flanker, full blower as the Flanker puts his nose in my direction, but not quite enough for a snap shot.

 

Rocket up through the vertical, flaps up, now travelling 180 degrees to the Flanker's nose, pull, flaps back down because I'm doing a split-S and I want it in the smallest circle possible. A bit of rudder to the right, and I pull out at the Flanker's altitude in a right turn. The flaps put me close enough to the Flanker that he begins to reverse. They are generating lift at such a rate that I have to retract them, unload, put on about -2g and rudder roll the jet onto his tail. I have VSL-High selected and lock up the Flanker, taking a snap shot as he pulls to my left. Drop flaps again (to take off setting) to keep up with his turn rate, and he puts a bit of vertical on his jet. Second stream of Vulcan rounds and they are off the the left. Ok, calm down. I'm at his 6, Vc is nearly zero and we're just building past 250 KIAS - any hard pull he does might out-alpha me, but it'll also burn his speed, and then what's he going to do? Line up more carefully, still stuck to his six, send my next burst and the Flanker detonates into a ball of fire front of my Tomcat, the fuselage eventually spiraling in.

 

 

 

Total fight time from the merge: approx 3 mins 30 seconds.

 

Take Aways: the better slow-speed maneuverability of CFMv2, based heavily on the ThirdWire Tomcat is probably what helped me the most. In general the energy circle didn't last as long, but I think the earlier F-14 FM would have yielded similar results given that the AI was doing pulsing energy burns at that time. I found that CFMv2 is easier to keep in sustained turns, possibly because it takes a second for g to build as the stabs react to the stick input, while instantaneous inputs are a little more difficult to achieve at slow speed.

 

 

F-15C Eagle vs. MiG-29A Fulcrum

 

Although I've spent most of my time in the books and manuals studying the F-14 and flying it in the virtual environment, anyone who would say Caesar ain't a fan of the Mighty Eagle is a liar! It occurred to me that I haven't really flown this beast in DACTs, so this is long overdue. I am not as familiar with the F-15, so I don't trust myself with it going against a Flanker, but knowing the history, I figured the Fulcrum would be a good challenge in a jet which I'm less familiar with. Going into the fight, I know the Eagle doesn't fight like a GE-Tomcat at slow speed, though at higher speeds the aircraft are comparable. I know I can sustain a better than 7g turn at about 400 KIAS, even at high altitudes, and this is what will work in my advantage. Or so I thought.

 

The fight started again at about 20 miles separation, followed by an energy circle. The problem is that I quickly found out the F-15 needs slightly more than 400 KIAS to sustain its 7g turn, around 450. At about this speed it'll do 7 and around 500 it'll do 8g just fine. Problematically, I pulled vertical and left into the MiG, which burned my energy too soon and as I came down, wound up in a 4.5g sustained turn against the MiG-29 when I got the bird into his plain of turn, and it was becoming obvious to me that he was starting to get too close to my tail. I dove to gain energy, rolling the Eagle on its back and performing an afterburning low loop, bringing the MiG down to about 8,000 feet with me, and pulling into him. This got the energy to where I needed it (480 KIAS) and I was able to get into a strong sustained turn against the MiG with slight vertical elements to help speed control. After about three iterations of an energy circle, where I found I could put on about 8.3g sustained while moderating the afterburner, it was now the MiG who dove for the deck as I was closing on his six.

 

 

 

One of the things to remember about the F-15 is that its thrust to weight can wind up putting it into a situation where it starts pulling less "g" as its stabs get loaded up, and the turn circle widens. You can have the stick in your lap at 550KIAS and the jet will just keep accelerating. As it stood I was at about 520 KIAS in an 8g turn when I curled into the MiG's six, and there was no way this Fulcrum was outrunning me. What happened next was me being saddled on the MiG for the next two minutes and ten seconds trying to get a damn gun solution! Snap shot here and there, but man was that pilot moving the Fulcrum. He tried two break turns to shake me, but neither worked, the Eagle followed him flawlessly. Finally I got lucky, firing as he nosed down and catching him in a stream of Vulcan rounds that I had tried to do earlier but managed to miss. (6,000RPM and he flies through it!? WTFO!?) Fulcrum down, RTB. Total fight time: 7 minutes 45 seconds.

 

 

 

Takeaways: The F-15 would have probably not encountered as many issues if I hadn't burned its energy so soon (I hadn't anticipated so much loss early on), but at least I never let the bird below 300 KIAS, recovered smartly, and then used the bird's powerful engines and good sustained turn rate to my advantage. If you can manage the energy properly, the sustained turning capability of the F-15 is exquisite at higher speeds.

 

F-4EJ Kai vs. MiG-23MF Flogger-B

 

This last fight puts the Phantom against a comparable aircraft. I do know I normally get waxed a few times flying the F-4, but every other time I've flown the jet it has been against a more maneuverable opponent. The MiG-23 is generally similar to the Phantom, so this should provide a more even ground.

 

One of the things I know about the Phantom, and have listed in past DACT reports, is that unless you're a master stick, you try to keep the bird above 450 KIAS. Guys who could draw the most out of the Phantom knew little "intentional departure" techniques and aerobatics that worked with the jet at slow speeds, but I am not one of those folks. Started the fight nose-on, and decided to take the altitude advantage from the MiG, passing high, pure vertical, at about 19,000 feet. Rolling down and pulling hard on the Phantom in a descending turn, the aircraft put on a very high "g" turn that I anticipated would put me at the Flogger's six early on. Unfortunately for me, the Flogger was also loading very high "g" and what happened for a while was...you guessed it, an energy circle.

 

 

 

This one kept me focused, however, since I had to do my damndest to keep my speed and "g" up in the F-4. At about 10,000 feet, the Flogger shot low, so I followed, was going to overshoot, so brought the Phantom back up into the vertical which the Flogger reversed into and followed. I came down and back up into another loop, shaking him and almost put the nose into the dirt coming back down, pulled for all I had (actually wasn't as low as I thought) and found that I was coming up on the Flogger's tail. Like in my F-14 vs Su-27 fight, I overshot when I tried to pull hard into the Flogger coming back up. I brought the nose of the jet up to try to keep a neutral position, but the F-4 kept going. Chopped throttles, pulled into the Flogger, whose nose was getting dangerously close to my tail. I knew I had the F-4 at its limits and was fully expecting the jet to slide and enter a spin, but this didn't happen. It could have been because I began deflecting rudder to roll around the Flogger in the general direction the aircraft was naturally travelling...

 

 

Regardless, this desparate slow speed dance wound up spitting the Flogger out, wings full forward (a rare sight in this sim, he must have been at sub 250 KIAS, if not 200 since I was in the 190's and he was overtaking). I nursed the Phantom's nose down, travelling in the same direction as the MiG-23, but with far less energy. The Flogger pulled away, and I pulled into him very moderately. It was unlikely I'd achieve a position of advantage here, but I was building energy back up and wasn't about to let him loop back around onto my tail.

 

We passed by each other again, but the Flogger never adequately rebuilt his energy. Wings were back out again, straining for air as I brought by Phantom around. I was able to keep higher g and turn rate than the Flogger long enough to get the nose on his tail. It probably didn't help that he went high after we had passed. After a few more turns and one snapshot as we passed (figured I'd get lucky - figured wrong), I was more solidly on his tail. Took a moment to set up and ZZzip! Good kill! Total fight time just under 9 minutes.

 

 

 

 

 

Takeaways: The aircraft were so evenly matched it hurt! The energy circles found no advantages and it was the AI that broke the circle initially. It was the burning of the Flogger's energy and the AI's inability to get it back up that won the day. Although I myself ended up well below the 450 I should have been at, I was able to successfully rebuild usable energy, and in the end, was able to get back onto his tail.

 

Overall, a successful night - 3 for 3, I was able to use at least some of what I knew and came out alive at the end. I'll take that any time, baby!

Edited July 31, 2012 by Caesar

[+SidDogg 130]

...MAN.

 

Just grabbed this CFMv2 Mod...made this CRAZY Tomcat-on-Tomcat mission.

 

Assuming you have the latest TMF Tomcat Pack with CFMv2, and Wrench's Southern Cal Terrain...

 

I DARE you to beat this!

 

Time: 180030Z SEP 88

 

YOU: F-14A_82 (Guns Only)

 

HIM: F-14A_IRAN (Guns Only)

 

4km separation. You have a RIDICULOUS height advantage.

 

I DARE you to beat this!

 

...Enjoy.

 

F-14A_VS_F-14A_(1V1).rar

 

 

 

 

 

 

SidDogg

[Caesar 305]

Challenge Accepted...or, kind of - for whatever reason I can't get SoCal working right (yet) so I made the mission in Germany CE and flew it 3 times.

 

This fight isn't really a DACT as much as ACT, since the airframes are essentially the same, with minimal differences between the two (Navy F-14 with TCS, certain new wiring for -9M and -54C compatibility, etc.) Both aircraft, thus, will handle identically for all intents and purposes. The F-14A is underpowered and this shows especially at high altitudes (above 20K) where the anemic TF-30's REALLY don't like to operate, so I intend to use this to my advantage (I'm certain I can handle the jet better than the AI at high altitude!). Also, flaps. If I get into an energy circle, the fight will go on forever, since neither aircraft is going to end in a position of advantage, given equal pilots.

 

Starting loadouts (all fights):

Both: gun, 100% fuel, no tanks

 

Fight 1 started from each respective base. In this case, I was cheating a little, I suppose, since I burned a bunch of gas getting to the arena. At about 30,000 feet AGL, nose down, I picked up the Iranian F-14 at about 70 miles just as he was taking off and locked him up. He put his nose in my direction and I plugged in the blower again (had been riding it a bit through the first two waypoints) to get my jet under 54,000 pounds. No need to maneuver for either of us since this is guns only. At about 5 miles I cut the blower, and homeboy is still about 9k feet below me. He starts pulling hard on the stick to try for a gun shot or maybe to get onto my tails, and I roll my F-14 on its back and begin to pull down into him to perform a loop.

 

 

Because I'm so high up, my F-14 starts a heavy energy burning pull, even when I light the cans yet again, and with gravity aiding me. Towards the bottom of the loop (26k ft) I'm at least accelerating, and have about 6.3g on the aircraft as I look up and see the Iranian Turkey run out of airspeed, desperately trying to put his nose down and recover before the aircraft slips. He does so, and I'm coming up on his tail. Notice, I didn't use the term "rocketing" like I would in a GE powered bird. I'm running about 250 KIAS and loosing speed, nose up. I am able to get nose on with takeoff flaps, while the Iranian is trying to get airspeed. I'm at 90KIAS and the F-14 is starting to loose altitude even with the nose up. I have the stabilators at full deflection, takeoff flaps, and barely start accelerating, but what is working in my favor is that my nose is on the opponent, and now he's trying to maneuver with no airspeed.

 

 

 

A chase-down ensues. He's burning airspeed trying to make futile turns and reverses, while I'm making minute corrections to keep threatening him. I get in range, cut the throttle when I see my Vc at about 150, and send a few bursts in his direction. One set hits and he pulls hard vertical. I do the same and send another two second burst in his direction. The aircraft explodes off my nose. Fight 1 is over.

 

 

Well, that wasn't too much of a challenge, time for fight two. Rather than try to burn away my gas, this fight starts in the air about 5 miles apart. We pull into each other, and after the merge, I pull into a left-hand turn, at about 5g, recalling that the Flanker hadn't done well keeping his energy up in the circle, maybe this guy would burn his available smack - unfortunately, we're at 15,000 feet, not 25, and I can see him gaining, so I pull harder. This begins not an energy circle, but an energy BURNING circle, with the bandit going down to about 270 KIAS, and myself burning to below 250. Flaps down, gain and gain and gain, but not quite enough to capitalize, so pull into the vertical.

 

 

Here, I was close to the Iranian's tail, so I can tell it's going to take him a bit to threaten me. He goes low to continue his circle while I'm high in a loop. Just as he gets to a point where (I can tell) he's going to try for a head-on climbing gun shot as I'm descending, I put some negative g on the F-14 to prolong my vector, forcing him to pull harder and burn more energy in an effort for the solution, then roll the jet and pull towards him when I can see he doesn't have enough authority to get his nose on. He passes below me trying for all his might to get his nose on (he's not even close) and pulls hard right, which gives me less work in a left-hand turn to stay on his tail. I reverse and pull with him. Because he was ascending and I was descending, I massively out-rate his turn and wind up in a position that will give me a high angle off gun shot. Get some lead and fire a burst. The bullet stream takes out part of the left wing and the cockpit. The aircraft begins to tumble and crashes into the ground a few seconds later.

 

 

 

 

The third fight started very similar, nose-on, start of energy circle, him pulling harder (this time damn near getting nose-on) and me having to respond, energy burning circle, flaps, only this time, I decide to reverse the direction of the circle to try to get on his tail quicker, rather than press the vertical. This did not execute as well as I had hoped, and I could see his nose getting close to my bird. Roll the F-14 to make a thinner target and fly below him, flaps still down, then roll and pull back up into the vertical. In a maneuver for which I'm somewhat proud, I pull back the throttle a bit, stand on the left rudder with near full deflection of the stabs and some spoiler, and cause the F-14's nose to skid down in a slicing motion that lands my plane in a very advantageous position from my piss-poor "maybe he won't hit us" position I had been in earlier. Full blower and begin cutting off his turn angles.

 

 

 

After about 3 turns (he reversed a few times), I'm in a good position for a high angle-off gun shot, like the prior fight. I bring the pipper slightly ahead of his right wing and pull the trigger, knocking out his right engine and taking off some flaps. Continue to follow and line right up on his six. Fire a second burst and take out the left engine, setting it alight. Final burst and the entire jet catches alight, and canopy comes off. Kill #3.

 

 

 

 

 

Takeaways: This wasn't as easy a fight as the prior CFM, and it did last a little longer than the few fights I did with the beta birds. In general, these aircraft were still relatively heavy (two fights at 100% fuel, the first, like I said, I burned a bunch of gas getting to the range), but against the "A" model F-14, the easiest way to kill it is to get it high up where the TF-30's don't like the thin air. The other thing to remember is that the AI doesn't drop its flaps, so if you get the AI F-14 slow, it won't be as effective, and in that regard, I guess I cheated a bit on fights 2 and 3, too. Then again, I can't think of a single F-14 pilot I have spoken to that DIDN'T drop the flaps at slow speeds, only comments about eating alive those that didn't use the same trick.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Caesar

[+SidDogg 130]

The other thing to remember is that the AI doesn't drop its flaps

 

Au Contraire, my good sir!

 

Just snapped a HIGHLY suspect photo of one when I was coming right around on his six...

 

 

 

 

 

 

SidDogg

[Caesar 305]

Never seen that after the merge! Did you change the flaps from manual to an automatic setting? (Auto mach/auto aerodynamic load?) If not, your AI must know something mine doesn't!

[+SidDogg 130]

Never seen that after the merge! Did you change the flaps from manual to an automatic setting? (Auto mach/auto aerodynamic load?) If not, your AI must know something mine doesn't!

 

There WERE no changes. All Manual Everything

 

 

 

 

 

SidDogg

[saisran 84]

Im really interested in what the tomcat can do r how you guys will handle it against 5th generation (F-22 F-35) or Fictional fighters (KF2 hammer and talon). :P

[+EricJ 4,245]

Caesar went up against my modified F/A-18F which was built using an uprated engine that hasn't (AFAIK) attracted real customers. But I personally doubt (or maybe it was back some pages) that if he took on the F-31 he would have been hammered, but like I said it's been so long that he's handled some of the fictional ones (as well as me).

[Caesar 305]

I want to say the only fictional bird I took on in the F-14 was the (X)F-29 "Polecat" and it was a bear to fight, though that was with an older FM, I believe the original one from 2010, so the outcome might be different now, either positive or negative. Against any of these fictional fighters, there is a LOT of power and maneuverability to contend with, so it would be an interesting thing to try out.

 

I've taken the older F-14's up against the F-35 a while back, don't think I did the F-22. As I recall, the F-35A handled a lot like the F-16, though it seemed more "jittery". The AI would pull hard, stop, then enter the turn. That behavior also might have changed with the new patches. I can take the Turkey up against some of these opponents if you want to see it, but I have a feeling they're going to be long fights with either party running out of gas, or crashing into the ground before they are decided.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Caesar

[Caesar 305]

Any Universe, Baby! Time for a fictional showdown.

 

Note: You'll notice at times I turn on the debug mode. One of the reasons I fight with the debug available is to learn what I'm doing, what the bandit is doing, and to have somewhat of an equivalent to the TACTS ranges used during actual air combat training.

 

Fight 1: F-14A+ Tomcat vs. KF2 Hammer

 

Loadouts:

F-14A+: 75% fuel, gun

KF2: 100% fuel, guns

 

The KF2 is a fictional aircraft available for SFP-1, but which functions in SF2. As a fictional, futuristic aircraft, I fully anticipated it would have a major power and maneuvering advantage, and probably heavy stealth. I was right. Something else I noticed is that the aircraft's base RCS modifier makes its return so small that the AWG-9 couldn't lock it even under 1NM, and its visual distance also limits visual tracking to around 1 mile or so. This made the fight a bit more tough.

 

Devil 103 headed to the arena

 

We started with the KF2 getting radar contact on me. I pulled into the direction of the threat on the RWR and spotted the aircraft at about 15 NM. I couldn't lock it (and figured I wouldn't be able to), so as he drew nearer, I tried for visual. Nope. This is a bit extreme for an aircraft about the size of my Tomcat! I finally got visual when he was around one mile away, coming speed of heat just below me, and I began to turn left just to ensure he wouldn't shoot me at the merge.

 

The Hammer went vertical, then put the fight as a one circle. I had 6.5g on the Tomcat at around 380KIAS, lost the Hammer for a moment, then re-found him as distance closed, then realized that the Hammer was getting around to my six very quickly. Did a debug check while sustaining the turn - yep, he's got 12.5 on his jet. He needs to slow down, or he'll overshoot, and just as he starts to do so, I roll and pull into the vertical, with right rudder, full blower. I can see I won't quite spit him out, so I loose the rudders and hold the vertical pull to get the Tomcat into a loop, dropping the flaps near the apex. The KF2 starts to follow me, but I'm already on my way down as he is on his way to my altitude. As the KF2 is descending, I wrench on the F-14 to try to get the nose around so that I can get a good firing position while he is trying to regain energy. My F-14 is yelling at me to unload and my airspeed has dropped to about 100KIAS. Rather than relent, I feed right rudder to drop the nose. This turns out advantageous anyhow, as I find myself in a decent position as the KF2 passes.

 

 

What happens next is one of the strangest advantage one-circles I've ever been in. My F-14 is turning well enough with the GE motors pushing it along while the KF2 plugs in the blower and instantly has vapes coming off the nose. I decide to turn on the debug again and notice that I'm around 180-200KIAS, matching the KF2 which is travelling at 1.25M! He's going so fast that I am matching his turn rate exactly at about 600 knots slower and a hell of a lot of g less! End result is that we have roughly equal turn rates, but my turn radius is far smaller than his, so I'm glued to his six.

 

This goes on for about a minute while I realize I have to get some speed on my bird, but not so much as to allow him loose. Flaps up, still matching rate, smaller radius. I eventually get nose on and the KF2 begins slowing down, pulling hard, then reversing repeatedly to get me off his tail. The problem in this case is that he has too much power - if he accelerates, he gets speed too quick and can't sustain a good rate. Every turn he makes, I match him. The fight goes on like this for a bit, while my AWG-9 is trying to lock up what is in essence a black hole.

 

On his six

 

High Yo Yo to stay on his six

 

It takes three bursts in total to kill the KF2. First one was a snap shot which knocked out his port engine (I can see this because it doesn't have an exhaust trail anymore). The second one, taken 30 seconds later, after more of the reversal/turn tantrum, takes out a wing flap on the port wing. The final burst taken 28 seconds later, after even more yanks, causes the KF2 to detonate off my nose, ending the fight.

 

 

Takeaways: For SF2, the KF2 needs a smaller RCS mod and a higher viz distance, which I modified after the fight. It is massively overpowered, but this works to its disadvantage as much as its advantage, at least under AI control. A human at the controls would have no contest against a realistic fighter at dogfight range. The main reason I won this fight is because the KF2 was going like a maniac and there was no way to shake me other than to run at that high speed. Total fight time was in the 7-8 minute region with 2-3 minutes spent following on the KF2's tails.

 

Fight(s) 2: F-14A+ Tomcat vs. F-31 Mustang II

 

Loadouts:

F-14A+: 75% internal fuel, gun

F-31: 100% internal fuel, gun

 

Fight 2 was against the F-31 and this took two attempts, not because the F-31 managed to bag me, rather, because the first one wound up in an energy circle on the deck with neither party adequately gaining, and the F-31 would have run out of gas (I was at about 6200lbs while he was about 2000 and burning it quick in blower when I called it). After circling for about 10 minutes, I had enough, and didn't feel like waiting another 3 or so for that ending.

 

From the first fight, however, I can say that I figured out a trick to force the F-31 out in front. As the fight started, I decided to get an altitude advantage and flew up to about 28k. Rolling the F-14 on its back, I dove on the F-31. As I passed its altitude I noticed the little bastard already had his nose reversed and he was coming onto my tail! Cripes that thing's got pitch! After being in a terribly bad position and performing several split-s maneuvers, I rolled the F-14 vertical and dropped flaps at about 15k feet. Pitching hard vertical, the F-31 couldn't hold on as long against stall speed and shot out from under me. In the amount of time it took me to roll my F-14 and pull up to him, he was already maneuvering and this is where the energy circle started. 10 minutes later, no developments, both stuck at 500 feet AGL, time to call it.

 

The trick is learned:

 

Fight 2 was a bit different. This time, I only came up to about 18k feet, and tried for a more classic maneuver, pulling into the F-31. That little bastard was on my tails in a matter of seconds! Damn thrust vectoring! Just wait 'till I get my Super Tomcat 21...oh wait. Well, it was a good idea that never made it. Anyhow, I do the exact same thing, get him slow, drop flaps, and pull vertical. He takes about 4 or 5 bursts at me, but can't match my pitch rate, slows too far and spits out again. This time, I'm more aggressive with my Tomcat. Hard right rudder, feed in a bit of spoiler/stab with maximum pull and wind up on the F-31's tail. It is only a matter of seconds before the F-31 is maneuvering again, but this time, he never effectively reverses the fight.

 

Applied, yielding the advantage:

 

The pursuit was insane. It was much a repeat of the KF2, but with an aircraft than can change its vector almost instantaneously, there were a lot of harsh stick movements, blower to idle to blower throttle movements, and a set of snap shots at points where I felt I was close to the F-31. Where the F-31 made its fatal flaw was when it tried to outrun me, wasting a lot of its precious little internal fuel. Although it out accelerated my F-14 at first, I caught up to and greatly surpassed his acceleration very quickly.

 

As I began to catch up, he was holding still enough for me to take a well placed snap at him, which tore off his rudder and thrust vectoring plates. He ran again after a few more jittery maneuvers that I had a hell of a time following. Two minutes and twenty seconds later after re-catching up while I unloaded and began a hard pulling dive to avoid overshooting, I ran a stream of 20mm through the F-31 as I came through the horizon. This set the aircraft on fire, destroyed the cockpit, and ended the mission. When I shot him down, I had around 6200lbs of fuel again, while he was down in the 1400 region. It was just a lot more satisfying to bring him down properly and not end in a neutral energy circle.

 

Snapshot Hit, Debug On

 

Bagged

 

 

Takeaways: The X-31 demonstrator which this aircraft was based on is a highly maneuverable aircraft, and it would have been interesting to see what an "F-31" could really do. This one is an incredible fighter with insane pitch, but I'd wonder if any pilot could really handle it so rough without cracking their skull open on the instrumentation!

 

Fights 3&4-ish: F-14A+ Tomcat vs. F-22A and F-35A

 

Loadouts:

F-14A+: 75% fuel, gun

F-22/35: 100% fuel, gun

 

Against the Fifth Generation, there was no competition. I don't know what broke, but the F-22 initially tried to press against me, even in a position of advantage (I went looking for him, and didn't notice he had spawned right next to me). Pulled hard to keep him off my tail, and once we went neutral, it was like he forgot what he was doing. I rolled low, and pulled into him, got lead and killed him with the gun. The F-35 was even worse. I spotted him, got on his tail and shot him down without any defensive maneuvering - I'll have to check on these birds, because I know from my own experience the F-35 will fight hard under normal circumstances. Will report back on those later.

 

F-22 out of control after taking a series of hits to the port wing. He spiraled in.

 

F-35 shoot down after flying in a painfully straight line.

 

So, there you have it - these experimental types are certainly beatable in a Turkey (GE powered, anyway) if you have a few tricks up your sleeve. The KF2 is heavily overpowered, so you'll find yourself inside its turn if he tries to light his blowers too much. The F-31, on the other hand, is just a nasty SOB and you've got to either kill it far out, or get on its tail and stay there if you want a chance to survive...or fly a jet with more gas in it and run it out of fuel!

 

Edited September 6, 2012 by Caesar

[+EricJ 4,245]

I think it's newer AI in my opinion, once you get in the kill slot it adopts a fatalistic attitude and then it gets easier to bag.

[saisran 84]

Nice flying Ceasar! Those reports are really exciting As for me i can't really get a good gun solutions most of them are lucky shots while the rest i run out of bullets. i have better results with missiles though. although those stealth planes can only be hit by Aim-9s. Need to learn proper manouvering with the tomcat. 2 question. Is the new Fm for the tomcat makes it impossible to get it into a flat spin? kept trying to get it out of control but it remains stable all the time. 2nd question is a bit off topic. Thanks for sending me the file btw. what control the ground image on the VDI? the one that scrolls as the plane moves along. managed to get the SF2 pit working with the tcs in the right place. Missile counter, bank and pitch working on the VDI for SF1 except that one.

 

Im really excited to read your next DACT.

[Caesar 305]

The older F-14 FM was damn near impossible to flat spin, though this matches reality pretty well - the F-14 was resilient to spins, and the chief cause of them was when one of its TF-30 engines suffered a compressor stall at high angle of attack, high altitude with the other in full blower. The resulting adverse yaw with one engine producing no thrust, and the other at max AB generated a yaw rate difficult to compensate for, but it was not irrecoverable. I've recently had to construct a briefing using the F-14 as a historic case study with relation to investing into defense programs early to save cost over time (and the repercussions of reckless cuts early on in an effort to save money), and after studying the accident statistics, was unable to find even one F110 powered (B/D) Tomcat lost to a flat spin.

 

The new FM (CFMv2) can be spun, but not classically. Where as the older FMs responded as one would expect when the aircraft ran out of speed (either to skid towards the ground without adequate lift, or to enter a slide if nose-up), the newer FM will force itself to spin because it is based on the TW FM. Rather than depart predictably, if it goes negative on airspeed, or if it gets close to zero, it will begin to fling itself around like a leaf in a tornado until it gets the right attitude and rate to flat spin. After that, it is very difficult to recover because you can't manually sweep the wings to 68 degrees to force the CG back and kill lift. Regardless, if you want to spin, run your bird out of speed. I could try to tweak it at a later date, I just need to figure out its departure values.

 

With regard to your second question, the VDI for pre-1.19 patch levels was more of a stand-in and the bottom portion does not scroll. It has an image of the VDI, but if memory serves, is actually an artificial horizon, so it won't scroll. The VDI from the later patch aircraft was only made available following the intro of SF2:NA and the new AvionicsF14A.dll file.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Caesar