Did von Richthofen feel, that he might die in a last attempt to turn the blade ?

[Olham 164]

I'm still working my way through Peter Kilduff's book "THE RED BARON - Beyond the Legend"

Here are some passages, that made me wonder:

 

End of January 1918, Manfred von Richthofen finds (after business in Berlin) some time

to visit his mother in Schweidnitz - for the last time.

His aircraft had been brought to Breslau for maintenance, and he had to travel there by

train.

Freifrau von Richthofen called a last goodbye to her son from a window:

"Auf Wiedersehen, mein Junge!" ("Until we meet again, my boy!")

At the station, his sister reinforced the message: "Please, be a bit careful - we DO want

to see you again!"

Richthofen's reply: "Can you imagine, Ilse, that I could ever die in some wretched bed of

straw?"

 

Before his trip back, he and his mother had seen through some photogrpaphs from his

time at Feldfliegerabteilung 69. Looking over his shoulder, his mother pointed to one smiling

young flyer and asked: "What has become of him?"

"Fallen in combat."

She pointed to a second man, to which Manfred replied: "Also dead.

Before she could enquire further, he said in a voice suddenly hoarse:

"Do not ask anymore. They are all dead."

 

Short before the beginning of the last big German offensive - "Operation Michael" - the

commander of JG 1 handed an envelope with the Geschwader seal on it, to his adjutant,

Oberleutnant Karl Bodenschatz. It was von Richthofen's official testament, designating

his successor.

Edited March 3, 2011 by Olham

[JFM 18]

The downfall of the German monarchy is an after-the-fact observation. At the time of MvR's death in April, Operation Michael hadn't smashed through to Paris but the Germans were far from total defeat; just a week before MvR's death the British were in such dire straights from the offensive that they issued the "Backs to the Wall" order; i.e., stand your ground and fight to the death. MvR's melancholy "Thoughts in a Dugout" is attributed to have been written at the end of his life but this undated document doesn't describe the state of the war (or, for that matter, Richthofen) at all in April 1918. Rather, it more accurately describes the state of each during the previous late summer. Hence, MvR had no "death premonition" or anything in spring 1918. He just flew too low too close to the lines and somebody shot him, that's all.

 

Richthofen appointed a successor because he was a realist; every pilot knows the risk of dying. Still, he didn't dwell on it. As MvR wrote, one attacked without worry about that.

[Olham 164]

Well, he had seen unrest and strikes of German workers in ammunition factories, after the fall of the Russian Tsar

and the rise of the Bolshewiks. He must have been aware of what would happen in Germany, if the war would go

on too long.

 

And that "flying too low behind enemy lines" - wasn't that totally against his own knowledge and advice?

[Dej 17]

...

 

And that "flying too low behind enemy lines" - wasn't that totally against his own knowledge and advice?

 

...

 

 

To that, isn't it all too often that a novice mistake is the downfall of the expert?

 

I don't believe there needs be anything mysterious about it... MvR screwed up and an Aussie gunner (or whoever!) got lucky. C'est la guerre... c'est la vie.

 

[EDIT] Come to think on it there are parallels with the Hawker Richthofen encounter. Hawker was well out of practice, shouldn't have been flying anyway, wasn't leading the flight so shouldn't have gone 'balls out' after the two-seaters on his own, especially with enemy scouts of known superior perfomance in the vicinity. He too screwed up... and paid the price of a single bullet. [/EDIT]

Edited March 3, 2011 by Dej

[Hasse Wind 46]

It's true that the general situation on the Western front was not yet completely desperate for Germany at the time of Richthofen's death. That change happened a couple of months later when the attacking German armies had run out of steam and the Entente forces started their heavy counterattacks. By August/September 1918, it became obvious to all the high ranking German military leaders that the war was lost. Around the same time morale started to deteriorate among the common soldiers, which had already happened to the frustrated sailors waiting uselessly for a change in the blockaded German harbours.

 

However, the German army that attacked in the west in the spring of 1918 was not the same it had been in 1914. Officers noted many disciplinary problems among their men that had not been visible earlier. The long war had simply exhausted the army. This was not restricted only to the German troops, of course. The British and the French had similar problems in their armies. They were lucky to have so many fresh American troops available, men that hadn't yet experienced years of bloodshed and losses.

 

I don't know what personal thoughts Richthofen was thinking in April 1918, but I'm sure he was aware of the critical situation and knew that the moment of truth had arrived for Germany. They had to win the war soon, or be defeated by the growing power of the Entente nations, which were decisively reinforced by American economic and military might. Germany had no such allies. Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Turkey and Bulgaria were all completely exhausted by the spring of 1918. And it must have been painfully obvious to Richthofen and his pilot comrades that the enemy seemed to have almost limitless resources, as the number of Entente aircraft and squadrons just kept increasing the longer the war went on. Under these conditions, Richthofen must have been extremely motivated to give everything for his country and see Germany triumph after years of death and suffering. He could best serve his beloved Fatherland by staying alive and continuing to inflict casualties to the enemy with his comrades.

[Olham 164]

That is the logical part, and it's right, I think.

But what about the war fatiguee, the headwound, the loss of all the good comrades,

seeing the ammo workers on strike, hearing from frontline soldiers, who had orders to attack, but didn't.

I just wondered, if he had not realised much earlier, that it could not be brought to a good end.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Olham

[Hasse Wind 46]

Richthofen had been serving since the beginning of the war, so surely he must have been at least somewhat exhausted and sick with the situation. That's only human and must have happened to everybody who'd been in the action for so long and in such a responsible position. But I have no idea how MvR felt in his heart during those final weeks. Maybe nobody now living does. I've sometimes wondered how much an ace like MvR shared his feelings with his closest friends and colleagues. Manfred did have another big ace as his brother, after all. Unfortunately Lothar died so soon after the war that he never had the time to write memoirs or anything about his relationship with his brother.

 

At least their early deaths saved the brothers from the Nazi era, unlike many of their pilot colleagues, some of whom became fanatic Nazis themselves. Their honor and reputation was never tarnished by the crimes of the Nazi regime. The temptation to become a Nazi or their supporter would have been considerable for such patriotic and famous officers as the Richthofen brothers were.

[Olham 164]

Well, I found this from Lothar von Richthofen - haven't read it yet myself. I think you can read German?

 

http://www.stahlgewitter.com/erlebnisberichte/richthofen1.htm

 

Back in those days after WW1, and with all the implications of the treaty of Versailles, with the humiliation

felt by most officers then, it was surely very tempting for a military man to join the Nazis - especially as then

they didn't know yet, what it would finally mean.

To us nowadays it is a cruel, bad, dark word - Nazi. For them, it was a new and possibly good idea, to be

a Nationalsozialist (national socialist).

Edited March 4, 2011 by Olham

[Hasse Wind 46]

Hey, that's interesting. I had no idea he wrote something like that. Thanks for the link.

 

Agreed about the Nazis and how many people saw them at first (and some truly blind ones even till the end).

[Hasse Wind 46]

Well, that certainly proves with Lothar's own words that he was quite the hothead, especially compared to his hunter brother. It's a miracle he survived the war, only to die in an accident some years later. A good read.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Didn't he once say "I am a Hunter...My Brother Lothar is a Butcher?"

[Olham 164]

Not quite, Widowmaker. He said, that he himself was a hunter, while his brother was a shooter.

Yeah, Hasse Wind, I also think, that Lothar was rather very lucky to survive that war.

[von Baur 54]

People having premonitions of their own deaths is an interesting subject. I have had such "premonitions" many times and am still alive, with no current reason to expect my life to end shortly. I'll wager most if not all of us here can say the same. But let one of those feelings of foreboding bear its bitter fruit and people will say, "He knew it was coming. He said he flet it." But what about all those times it didn't come? Choosing the moment he did to name his successor was happenstance, nothing more.

 

As to his losing his edge because of his head wound, the evidence doesn't support it. His second most productive month (according to this list) was March of 1918 with 11 victories, with April shaping up nicely (six victories in the first three weeks, making it already his fourth best month). And that must be weighed with the fact that his best (April 1917, 21 victories) and third best (March 1917, 10 victories) came at the height of the Albatros domination while in March and April of 1918 he was flying the Fokker Dr1, which could't chase down any but the slowest Allied planes.

 

I go back to my contention that he let 21 April get personal. May and von Richtofen's cousin Wolfram had both been told to climb above and observe if there was any trouble. Whether May fired on Wolfram, Wolfram fired on May, or Manfred just didn't like anyone being that close to his inexperienced cousin, Manfred fixated on this Englishman (I know he was Canadian, but that would have been MvR's take on things) and all that mattered was to punish him. In my mind, nothing else explains his actions.

[Flyby PC 23]

I'm not a believer in premonitions. They're only premonitions if they come true. The millions of premonitions which don't come true are quickly forgotten about.

 

I don't believe MVR had a premonition, but he was only human, and like many others, the longer he survived, the less time he had left. It's not a premonition, just the uncomfortable recognition you've been living on borrowed time and your luck will run out sooner or later. It's a symptom of combat fatique, with a level of survivors guilt thrown in when you've lost so many of your good friends. It is the natural reaction.

 

He had also survived his head wound by then, and even if he was fully recovered, (and I emphasise the if), a bullet in the head is a shocking reminder of your own mortality. I don't believe he knew his end was coming, just recognised the ever increasing likelihood that it was. His technical skill might not diminish, but living with the emotional stress might be something else. It might even have been the success itself which compounded his dread. It isn't a pleasant thing to live with killing so many men.

 

Who can say what was in his mind. Fate will have its way regardless.

[JFM 18]

No, flying low behind the lines wasn't against MvR's knowledge or advice. Hell, he had done it numerous times and long before 21 April 1918. I dare say it was his MO; once he got his teeth in he rarely if ever let go.

 

Much is made about 21 April that MvR violated his personal combat strategy. Not so. What is usually quoted is from his Air Combat Manual General Priciples, in which "One should never obstinately stay with an opponent who, through bad shooting or skilful turning, one has been unable to shoot down, when the battle lasts until far on the other side and one is alone and faced by a greater number of opponents." Normally, when this is quoted, the word "far" is omitted; even Peter Kilduff left it out when quoting the manual in the main text of Beyond the Legend. But check the Air Combat Operations Manual; it's there.

 

Thus, was MvR "far" behind the lines 21 April 1918? Nope. Where he crashed was about 2.5-3 miles behind the lines. In an airplane, that's nothing. Was he facing a greater number of opponents? Nope. He was chasing May--no threat there--and the only other plane around was Brown's, who made one diving attack and then left. I dare say it is speculation that MvR even saw Brown's attack. Clearly, as I always say, it was MvR's altitude that got him in the most trouble, not distance. Put him three miles behind the lines at 10,000 feet and no small arms would touch him. Put him over the lines at 50 feet and still the small arms danger was there--didn't even have to be behind the lines at that altitude, just near them. Look at Mannock.

 

As far as his 9-month-old head wound, people read far, far too much into that. It seems they are incapable of accepting that people die in war and Richthofen was just a person. There was no great cause for what he did on 21 April; he had done it numerous times before. Numerous. I can't stress that enough that 21 April 1918 was NOT the first time he chased a plane at low altitude and/or behind the lines (and yes, he did this even before his headwound). The difference is that on 21 April somebody shot him. That's it. He didn't fly low because of his wound or fatigue and he routinely chased planes and continued shooting at them until they either landed or crashed. Regarding fatigue, he'd just come off months and months and months of non-combat rest. He was not "secluded in his four walls" and depressed; there are beau coup photos of him at this time. Newspaper interviews and anecdotes by squadron members reveal MvR as accessible, jocular, jovial. He wrote his Air Combat Operations manual at this time. As von Baur indicated, March 1918 saw his most productive month since Bloody April, and April 1918 he was doing very well despite poor weather cancelling many days of flying.

 

It's really, really, really, really, really simple. MvR was in a war and like millions of other men, he was killed doing what he did every day.

[Olham 164]

Okay, thanks for clearing that, JFM - and for MvR's combat manual!

[Flyby PC 23]

Combat fatigue , also called battle fatigue, or shell shock, a neurotic disorder caused by the stress involved in [/url]war. This anxiety-related disorder is characterized by (1) hypersensitivity to stimuli such as noises, movements, and light accompanied by overactive responses that include involuntary defensive jerking or jumping (startle reactions), (2) easy irritability progressing even to acts of violence, and (3) sleep disturbances including battle dreams, nightmares, and inability to fall asleep....

 

Back in WW1, mental frailty was not something you would talk about. You'd pull yourself together and pretend it didn't exist. There were more than one courageous veterans from the trenches shot for cowardice just because they'd seen too much of war and just couldn't handle it any more. It isn't depression, it's something different unique to war and repeated exposure to danger.

 

I'm not saying MVR was aflicted with combat fatigue, but bad dreams concerning your own mortality are a recognised symptom. (Recognised now, - not in WW1). A full nervous breakdown might not be a sudden thing, there might be an extended period leading up to it when someones judgement might be impaired or his reasoning flawed. Don't misunderstand me, that isn't an attack or criticism, just an observation.

 

I don't know if MVR was impaired at all in any way, but after all the action he'd seen, it wouldn't be at all surprising if he was. It's not an accusation of cowardice or frailty.

 

As I recall from my own reading, there was a marked change in MVR's disposition after his head wound. And if I'd been shot in the head, I doubt I'd be over it in 9 months. I broke my nose once and couldn't stand having anything anywhere near it for about 18 months.

 

I do understand you JFM, 100%. Things just happen, men get killed in battle and it's just as simple as that. You pull yourself together, stiff upper lip, and carry on.... just like they did in 1918.

[Hasse Wind 46]

Unless one is some kind of a psychopath, it's only natural to start showing signs of combat fatigue at some point. WW1 was such a long and incredibly brutal conflict of the industrial age that nothing like it had been experienced before in the history of war. Anybody can become exhausted both physically and mentally under such conditions. The problem was that most of the doctors and other experts of the period, taught with 19th century methods, were extremely stupid in psychological matters and didn't really understand what was going on with the new kind of warfare. So even if somebody was suffering from exhaustion (and I'm not saying that MvR was, because I really have no idea and I'll leave that to the experts like JFM), it was very likely that a typical military doctor had no idea of the condition. It was easier to say somebody was coward or not manly enough. And if one had such symptoms, he did his best to hide them, because he could expect almost no sympathy from the medical professionals, or least of all from his military superiors.