Rugbyfan1972 1 Posted May 31, 2011 All, I am reading Sharks Among Minnows by Norman Franks. I just have query regarding the following which is on page 27 (for those of you with the book). It says that Bohme in his official report was flying Fokker E 14/15 with 700 cartridges, on 25th september 1915? My questions are as follows: 1) Was the Fokker EI still in operation at that time or had the Fokker EII been introduced. 2) Was a twin spandau arrangement in use at that time, as the statement that Bohme had 700 cartridges seems odd for a single spandau. 3) When was a twin gun arrangement first used by operational units. As an aside I am enjoying the book and would recommend it to anyone who has not read it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lewie 7 Posted May 31, 2011 All, I am reading Sharks Among Minnows by Norman Franks. I just have query regarding the following which is on page 27 (for those of you with the book). It says that Bohme in his official report was flying Fokker E 14/15 with 700 cartridges, on 25th september 1915? My questions are as follows: 1) Was the Fokker EI still in operation at that time or had the Fokker EII been introduced. 2) Was a twin spandau arrangement in use at that time, as the statement that Bohme had 700 cartridges seems odd for a single spandau. 3) When was a twin gun arrangement first used by operational units. As an aside I am enjoying the book and would recommend it to anyone who has not read it. Were they still flying the EI with the Oberusal U0 7 cylinder, 80 hp engine then? Seems like a lot of weight even for a single Spandau especially because of the limited power of the U0. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted May 31, 2011 . All, I am reading Sharks Among Minnows by Norman Franks. I just have query regarding the following which is on page 27 (for those of you with the book). It says that Bohme in his official report was flying Fokker E 14/15 with 700 cartridges, on 25th september 1915? My questions are as follows: 1) Was the Fokker EI still in operation at that time or had the Fokker EII been introduced. 2) Was a twin spandau arrangement in use at that time, as the statement that Bohme had 700 cartridges seems odd for a single spandau. 3) When was a twin gun arrangement first used by operational units. As an aside I am enjoying the book and would recommend it to anyone who has not read it. Rugbyfan, yes, the E.I was still in operation at the time, (as evidenced by Böhme's use of it ), but it was being phased out. A short few months later on 24 January, 1916 Böhme was killed flying his E.II. I do not believe a twin MG set-up was ever tried on the E.I's or the E.II's, due to their lack of power, (as mentioned by Lewie). A number of E.III's were fitted with twin guns, (Immelmann's being one of them), however the E.IV was the first operational aeroplane to be built with two from the factory, IIRC. As to the 700-round belt, it's my understanding that it was a field modification done by simply stitching on an additional 150-round length of canvas belting to the stock 550-round item. BTW, here is a photo of Böhme's crashed E 14/15 after he had shot down the pair of Farmans near the Black Forest on 25 September, 1915, (the young boy in the photo is NOT Böhme) : (photo courtesy of 'Early German Aces of World War I', by Greg VanWyngarden and Harry Dempsey) . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bullethead 12 Posted May 31, 2011 BTW, here is a photo of Böhme's crashed E 14/15 after he had shot down the pair of Farmans near the Black Forest on 25 September, 1915, (the young boy in the photo is NOT Böhme) : That looks much like my eindecker landings. Did it fall sideways out of the sky on him, too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted May 31, 2011 . Did it fall sideways out of the sky on him too...hee hee...no Bullethead. He mucked up the landing, (much like we do in OFF trying to put the Einie back on terra firma), when he set down next to his second victim. I wonder if the brass said anything about him crashing his kite on rough ground with a landing he did not have to make, but rather chose to. I suppose not, as he was the first to shoot down a pair of planes in a single sortie, (a feat which actually earned him two medals). . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rugbyfan1972 1 Posted May 31, 2011 . Rugbyfan, yes, the E.I was still in operation at the time, (as evidenced by Böhme's use of it ), but it was being phased out. A short few months later on 24 January, 1916 Böhme was killed flying his E.II. I do not believe a twin MG set-up was ever tried on the E.I's or the E.II's, due to their lack of power, (as mentioned by Lewie). A number of E.III's were fitted with twin guns, (Immelmann's being one of them), however the E.IV was the first operational aeroplane to be built with two from the factory, IIRC. As to the 700-round belt, it's my understanding that it was a field modification done by simply stitching on an additional 150-round length of canvas belting to the stock 550-round item. BTW, here is a photo of Böhme's crashed E 14/15 after he had shot down the pair of Farmans near the Black Forest on 25 September, 1915, (the young boy in the photo is NOT Böhme) : (photo courtesy of 'Early German Aces of World War I', by Greg VanWyngarden and Harry Dempsey) . RAFL , Thank you for the quick reply, it just seemed odd that in an aircraft that was so underpowered, that they would have taken extra ammo up on a sortie (I actually thought that the spandau had a standard load of 500 rounds, didn't realise that the standard load war 550, you learn something every day). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted May 31, 2011 That looks much like my eindecker landings. Did it fall sideways out of the sky on him, too? "Tch! Der Eindecker only "falls sideways", ven der pilot does not do sometzink else vizz it!" Does anyone know, if the E.IV in OFF has twin guns? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bullethead 12 Posted May 31, 2011 "Tch! Der Eindecker only "falls sideways", ven der pilot does not do sometzink else vizz it!" Ja! "Sometzink else" be-ink not flying der verdammt tzink! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shredward 12 Posted June 1, 2011 "Tch! Der Eindecker only "falls sideways", ven der pilot does not do sometzink else vizz it!" Does anyone know, if the E.IV in OFF has twin guns? We only have an ersatz E.IV, ie an E.III masquerading as an E.IV Cheers, shredward Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lewie 7 Posted June 1, 2011 There is a set of EIII-EIV Fokkers available from AH's free downloads for CFS3,-early OFF, but incorporating them into a campaign in P3 would be a problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) We only have an ersatz E.IV, ie an E.III masquerading as an E.IV Cheers, shredward Couldn't the devs go even a bit further in masquerade, by giving it more strength and twin Spandaus? That could lure even me into flying them again. Bullethead - if you still have enough space below, when she falls sideways: give her full rudder in the same direction, and stick in opposite, until her nose points down instead of her wingtip; then catch her up. If you DON'T have enough space - well, then it may be even too short for a prayer. I try to avoid tighter turns at low altitude. But hey! I even downed two Nieuport 11 with my Eini! Edited June 1, 2011 by Olham Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lewie 7 Posted June 1, 2011 Couldn't the devs go even a bit further in masquerade, by giving it more strength and twin Spandaus? That could lure even me into flying them again. Bullethead - if you still have enough space below, when she falls sideways: give her full rudder in the same direction, and stick in opposite, until her nose points down instead of her wingtip; then catch her up. If you DON'T have enough space - well, then it may be even too short for a prayer. I try to avoid tighter turns at low altitude. But hey! I even downed two Nieuport 11 with my Eini! You should know that the EIV was not a big improvement on the EIII with the single gun, it was considerably heavier and the twin row Oberusal 160 was temperamental and unreliable. The extra weight could not be overcome by the increased engine power, it would plow through turns and it's climb rate wasn't an improvement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted June 1, 2011 . Absolutely correct Lewie. Some pilots at the time considered the E.IV to be worse than it predeccesor, dut to it's clumsy feel. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lewie 7 Posted June 1, 2011 I forget which Fokker it was but it was the interim Biplane they made to cover for the EIII-EIV that still had wing warping and twin MG's. And despite the increased wing area Anthony decided it too needed a twin row Oberusal and it was as equally lousy after the conversion. I think I'm refering to the Fokker DII and DIII German Aviation: Fighters 1916 the M17.. and the M19 or DIII Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rugbyfan1972 1 Posted June 1, 2011 All, Upon reading a bit further, the book now mentions that Pfalz also built a monoplane fighter (Pfalz EI-EIV, with only the EI & EIV seeing operational service) during late 1915 early 1916, and that the german pilots preferred the Fokker to the Pfalz due to its better performance. All I can say is that the Pfalz must have been a dog to fly, because I know the Fokker was not well liked. Lewie, it is the Fokker DIII (see link) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_D.III Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
