Joystick insensitivity

[RamblingSid 3]

hi all,

 

I currently use a saitek evo force js. Had it for a few years and it has worked well, up until recently.

But I now find it just not sensitive enough. Example: when flying the Camel I can heave the js around with only sedate responses from the a/c - I have to try really hard to get it to spin. Aileron control seems very slow so that a break to the right (the Camel's strength I thought) is not fast enough to evade any EA on the 6. Elevator responses are, on the other hand, much better. Take off/landing a piece of cake with only very gentle torque effects

 

I may be wrong but I have never read of the Camel having "sedate" handling characteristics. I have read the guide to the Camel in the Survival in the Air thread and I can only say that my experience with the Camel does not tally. No issues with the Camel guide I may say - it reflects the handling characteristics I have read about elsewhere.

 

My parameters: no auto-rudder, flight model set to "realistic", Force Feeback switched on.

 

Course I am a crap "pilot" and this may be the real problem but I do think the js may be stuffed.

 

I only fly Sopwiths so have little experience with other types.

 

Any thoughts about how to ginger up control responses ?

 

Thanks

[almccoyjr 7]

Need to clarify "up until recently".

 

Has the js been performing fine when flying the Camel during previous flights and now it's not, or, are you finding this out now because you've started flying the Camel for the first time and you're noticing a lack of response?

 

plug_nickel

[RamblingSid 3]

Need to clarify "up until recently".

 

Has the js been performing fine when flying the Camel during previous flights and now it's not, or, are you finding this out now because you've started flying the Camel for the first time and you're noticing a lack of response?

 

plug_nickel

 

Hi almccoyjr,

 

thanks for your response.

 

I've played OFF for a couple of years - always used the saitek js. I think the insensitivity has always been there but it has become much more evident lately. Due, perhaps, to a couple of factors:

i) Just (re)found the Survival in the Air thread and realised that my experience with the Camel did not match. Other Sopwith types imo are better but there is still a "waterlogged" feel and lack of sharpness in handling.

ii) I also play ROF. As you know, it uses a different flight model so I don't want to make invalid comparisons. But I noticed that after flying the Camel for a couple of weeks it suddenly became much more tractable.

 

I am not a good pilot, hence my query abt the js.

 

Sorry that this is so subjective and, tbh, it may be that I am making an invalid comparison. If that is the case I will simply have to accept the situation and enjoy the other outstanding elements of OFF. (love the cloud scapes in OFF, like flying in a Turner or Constable, great aesthetics).

 

Cheers

[almccoyjr 7]

The first and "most" obvious course is to check the raw data that the js transmitting. I'm not sure if this can be done through your Saitek software, however, I'm sure it can be so maybe another flyer can chime in this regards.

 

The point to doing this is to see if the js pots have or are starting to deteriorate or if they're just in need of good cleaning. That "waterlogged" feel sounds like an increase in electrical resistance within the pot. The wiper and terminals may have started to oxidize due to repeated use. Sometimes a good cleaning can resolve it, sometimes not.

 

As you describe the problem, the insensitivity has "always" been there, but is now more noticeable. You most likely haven't setup any js response curve profiles for any of your flight sims. That would be my guess to your "always" comment. That it's now more noticeable leads me to the pots assessment.

 

A comparison between OFF and Rof fm's isn't of any benefit in checking out your js responsiveness. You need to view the raw data as it's being sent. Faulty pots will make a good pilot mediocre and a poor pilot frequently dead no matter what type of curve is setup.

 

plug_nickel

[Rugbyfan1972 1]

Rambling Sid,

 

I also have a Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. If I may share my experiences using the above joystick.

 

You have probably tried the suggestions below, but just in case you have not thought of them.

 

Do you ever unplug the joystick and then plug it back in without setting it up in windows game controller?

The reason that I ask this question is that I have noticed on my system if I do that, the control inputs are "all over the shop", particularly the throttle and rudder ones.

 

When you start at the field before you start the engine, move the joystick through all its axis (including the throttle and rudder), as without doing this it can again make the aircraft seem unresponsive/awkward to fly

[RamblingSid 3]

The first and "most" obvious course is to check the raw data that the js transmitting. I'm not sure if this can be done through your Saitek software, however, I'm sure it can be so maybe another flyer can chime in this regards.

 

The point to doing this is to see if the js pots have or are starting to deteriorate or if they're just in need of good cleaning. That "waterlogged" feel sounds like an increase in electrical resistance within the pot. The wiper and terminals may have started to oxidize due to repeated use. Sometimes a good cleaning can resolve it, sometimes not.

 

As you describe the problem, the insensitivity has "always" been there, but is now more noticeable. You most likely haven't setup any js response curve profiles for any of your flight sims. That would be my guess to your "always" comment. That it's now more noticeable leads me to the pots assessment.

 

A comparison between OFF and Rof fm's isn't of any benefit in checking out your js responsiveness. You need to view the raw data as it's being sent. Faulty pots will make a good pilot mediocre and a poor pilot frequently dead no matter what type of curve is setup.

 

plug_nickel

 

Many thanks, almccoyjr, for your comments and suggestions.

 

Following through on your observations I did partially disassemble the js - bloody hell, the innards are much more complicated than I imagined. Couldn't locate the "pot" (hangs head in shame). There was a cage thing that seemed to house the socket for the js ball but I couldn't go further than taking the bottom of the housing off. I couldn't see any electrical contacts to clean. I did use a little wd40 on the js ball.

 

Js works no better (and no worse). I didn't mention that the twist function rudder packed in ages ago, I use pedals so no issue but perhaps an indication that all is not well - I think it may be time to replace.

 

Didn't know you could tinker with response curves in OFF (I have gone through the set-up via properties), I'll look into that.

 

Thanks again.

[RamblingSid 3]

Rambling Sid,

 

I also have a Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. If I may share my experiences using the above joystick.

 

You have probably tried the suggestions below, but just in case you have not thought of them.

 

Do you ever unplug the joystick and then plug it back in without setting it up in windows game controller?

The reason that I ask this question is that I have noticed on my system if I do that, the control inputs are "all over the shop", particularly the throttle and rudder ones.

 

When you start at the field before you start the engine, move the joystick through all its axis (including the throttle and rudder), as without doing this it can again make the aircraft seem unresponsive/awkward to fly

 

Hi Rugbyfan1972,

 

thanks very much for your comments.

 

js is always unplugged when not actually being used. I think the answer to windows game controller aspect is "yes" as I don't have any throttle and rudder issues although the twist rudder function hasn't worked for ages (see my response to almccoyjr).

 

On the axis question - that is something I haven't done for sometime, I'll give it a go.

 

Cheers

[almccoyjr 7]

Since it's a twist grip, there should be 3 separate pots, one for each axis. You should be able to find them by tracing the connectors from the board to each pot.

 

You can't "tinker" with js curves within OFF; only externally through your Saitek software and then saving it as a profile.

 

plug_nickel

[RamblingSid 3]

Since it's a twist grip, there should be 3 separate pots, one for each axis. You should be able to find them by tracing the connectors from the board to each pot.

 

You can't "tinker" with js curves within OFF; only externally through your Saitek software and then saving it as a profile.

 

plug_nickel

 

Thanks, almccoyjr,

 

I'll give it another go and also see what can be done with the saitek sware.

 

Cheers

[BirdDogICT 3]

The developers spent many hours trying to get the Camel flight characteristics right (most sims do an awful job of it). The Camel took me a while to get used to, but is now my favorite plane to fly. Actually pretty well behaved unless you stall while nose up-tail down...then it's a beast to fly, and good rudder pedals (or rudder input) are mandatory. If anything, the developers have overdone the tendency of the plane to stall.

 

Lots of discussions here about the Camel:

http://combatace.com...__1#entry340390

http://combatace.com...top-in-a-camel/

http://combatace.com...__1#entry312638

http://combatace.com...__1#entry276155

 

Maybe it's not your joystick at all.

Edited October 13, 2011 by BirdDogICT

[RamblingSid 3]

The developers spent many hours trying to get the Camel flight characteristics right (most sims do an awful job of it). The Camel took me a while to get used to, but is now my favorite plane to fly. Actually pretty well behaved unless you stall while nose up-tail down...then it's a beast to fly, and good rudder pedals (or rudder input) are mandatory. If anything, the developers have overdone the tendency of the plane to stall.

 

Lots of discussions here about the Camel:

http://combatace.com...__1#entry340390

http://combatace.com...top-in-a-camel/

http://combatace.com...__1#entry312638

http://combatace.com...__1#entry276155

 

Maybe it's not your joystick at all.

 

hi BirdDogICT,

 

I shouldn't wonder, I am a crap pilot.

 

Thanks for the links, this is really something I should have done prior to starting this thread, apologies.

 

Just on handling, I think it is the aileron response that I am having problems with: I have to use full right rudder (initially) and full right aileron to start the turn - by which time I have usually been shot to pieces.

 

 

Thanks everybody for the info, I think I'd better go to school on the links kindly provided by BirdDogICT and do some other searches before I bother you folks further.

 

Cheers