OFF and the Saitek X52 Pro

[HumanDrone 4]

Hello, all!

 

Hopefully I will be installing all my sims over the weekend, and my brand-new Saitek X52 Pro. I also have their Combat Rudder Pedals. There are a lot of toggles, buttons, etc on the X52, many of which could be made to give us conveniences that the brave young men we are imitating didn't have.

 

Still, i don't think it's be too unrealistic to have, say, mixture on a slider. Does anybody use this one? Would you be willing to share your settings/asignments?

 

As well, I think I've heard of an issue with the rudder pedals where the axes are reversed in CFS3. My Google-fu is failing me right now, and maybe it's been fixed, but if anyboy has anything input on that, well, say on.

 

Thanks, all!

 

Tom

 

New system: i7-2600K @ 4.2 GHz, Win 7 Pro 64 bit, EVGA GTX580 OC'd, 16 GB RAM DDR3 1600, 240 GB SSD 6 GB/s, 600 GB WD Velociraptor. Sims: FSX Gold, CFS3 (hopefully with ETO/PTO), OFF HiTR

[markl 1]

I have the basic X52 and must admit I use the key board for commands, not the joy stick buttons.

 

One thing to look out for which seems to be a X-52 problem is the throttle slider gets assigned to the throttle by default i a lot of sims and can be hard to change. IL21946 is one that comes to mind.

 

I must admit I like the X-52 as a joystick but I am presently trying the Saitek stick with the dual throttles, but not sure if I like it yet.

 

Now if I could afford one of those expensive new Thrustmaster setups I would love to try one.

 

Regards

 

MarkL

[abyss 1]

Don't use any version of the X52 as it may be fine for FSX, however I feel it abit of overkill in OFF. The only part of it I see as Handy is the left handed throttle. I think you have more buttons than OFF has Controls

 

Never heard of putting the mixture on a slider. Most of those just starting OFF utilize Auto Mixture Anyway . . one less thing to deal with

 

Strongly suggest you read the STICKY top of the page in General Help

 

Also if you intend to run all the various clones of CFS3, you'll quickly discover the views are rather pitifull

 

But there is a solution . . .

Edited December 10, 2011 by abyss

[HumanDrone 4]

Well, I don't have much of a choice there, the X52 is all I have! But I also have TrackIR, as it seems pretty indispensable for OFF. And the X52 will be fine for CFS3-ETO and FSX...

 

Configuring the new computer now, ready to rip somebody's head off - and I haven't even started on the sims... not a good day. Plus, I paid for a 20% overclock and didn't get it, and my SATA 6 GB/Sec drives are reporting at 3 GB/s... and anyting installing off the Pioneer Blu-Ray seems to be crawling slow. Sheesh.

[abyss 1]

YEAH . . you very rarely get what you pay for . . when dealing with a custom builder

 

There's no problem running an X52, . . just satisfy yourself without using all the available options

 

Don't know how fast your reaction times really are . . . but most times in WW1 Birds Especialy, . . things can change in an instant . . . without warning. . . Don't let that . . it's only 120mph Fool you

 

I found a Bowlers Towel to be rather Handy when drying the sweat off your X52

[Bullethead 12]

Hopefully I will be installing all my sims over the weekend, and my brand-new Saitek X52 Pro. I also have their Combat Rudder Pedals. There are a lot of toggles, buttons, etc on the X52, many of which could be made to give us conveniences that the brave young men we are imitating didn't have.

 

I use the X52 and pedals myself and haven't had any problem with them in OFF. All the axes behaved themselves nicely.

 

HOWEVER, be sure to just throw away the disk that came with the stick and download the latest software from Saitek's site. And IIRC, the proceedure is that you start the software installation before you plug in your gear. Once you're done with that, calibrate it in Windows and you should be good to go. After that, it's just a matter of creating and loading a profile for the particular game you're playing.

 

If you have TIR, then you don't need to put any view-related commands on the stick itself. And WW1 planes don't have many gadgets to work anyway, so you're sure to end up with a lot of leftover buttons. Be sure to disable them in the profile, so if you accidentally hit them in the heat of battle, it won't do something weird.

 

Some things you'll definitely want on the stick (besides the necessary shooting and front view centering commands) are: all the wingman commands, being able to bring up and zoom the map and TAC, select previous/next target, and trim. Mixture as well if you're into that. For trims and mixture, I recommend using the rotary things and/or sliders. Set them up for banded input with a large spot in the middle that has no command, and the rest covered by the commands for going in either direction. To use, just move the control off the center area into the desired input area until you get what you want, then move the control back to the center to stop it there.

[HumanDrone 4]

Thanks, everyone, and Bullethead, I appreciate your input. By the way, what's that BOC medallion I've been seeing so much around here?

 

& should I install the sims before the hardware, or the hardware before the sims?

 

Thanks again,

 

Tom

[Bullethead 12]

By the way, what's that BOC medallion I've been seeing so much around here?

 

I leave that to the ossifers of the club to explain. They can do a better job of it than I can.

 

should I install the sims before the hardware, or the hardware before the sims?

 

I'd go hardware first, then games.

[HumanDrone 4]

AHA! Barmy "ossifiers" Club, I'll bet!

 

& Blast it, I started the FSX install already... oh, well, Then I'll do the hardware, then the "important" ones - CFS3-OFF and CFS3-ETO.

[HumanDrone 4]

So the hardware and software is all installed, but the stick assignments are giving me fits. The box itself is fantastic, even though I'm not fully up to speed. Vanilla installs of FSX and CFS 3 are running at 30 and 60 FPS, respectively, and with CFS3 I simply maxed all the sliders.

 

One of my big problems is the fields in the CFS3 XCA file. For instance, I have these fields for my rudder pedals (And yes,I know we don't have brakes in OFF, but I'm not that far yet!):

 

<Axis ID="X" Action="BRAKES_LEFT" Scale="64" Nullzone="16"/>

<Axis ID="Y" Action="BRAKES_RIGHT" Scale="64" Nullzone="16"/>

 

So... where is the definitive list of actions that I can type into that field? I know that Action="HAVE_A_ BEER_ON_THE_WING" probably doesn't correspond to any action in CFS3. And further, does OFF add actions that maybe are more relevant to WWI than WWII?

 

As you said, this stick is insane for OFF, with all those buttons, sliders, hats & triggers all programmable in 3 modes, it'll take some serious dumbing down, but as I'm an expert in "dumb" I can probably handle it!

 

Best,

 

Tom

[Bullethead 12]

I don't understand your problem. Why are you mucking about in various game files? I never had a reason to do that.

 

Just start the game and open up the screen that lets you assign keys to commands. Don't bother changing any of them unless they've got a bunch of SHF and CTRL additions to them. In such cases, most likely the base key itself is used by a command you won't use in OFF, so just remap the key to the command you actually want. Anyway, just write down what key goes with which command, then exit the game.

 

Then open the Saitek profiling software and start assigning commands to buttons. I find it easier to do the commands as macros, so I can give them all names like "Trim Aileron Left". That way, if you want to change things around later, you can select from your list of macros instead of having to remember what the actual keystroke is.

 

Anyway, also in the Saitek software, you can set up your null bands and such for all your axes and do all that sort of thing without having to mess with anything in the game. So put all that in your profile, save it, then load it into your stick. Then start OFF and away you go.

[HumanDrone 4]

Well, I was doing that based on examples over at the SOH forums. I'll try your way - and I like the idea of using macros, that seems like a great way to keep track of things!

 

Others have said not to use the profiles (*.pro) that Siatek makes, but it would seem to be the easiest way to go. I'll give it a try!

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

 

* In the meanwhile, it's also occurred to me that a lot of what I was looking for was listed higher up in the file. My father-in-law used to tell me, "Tom, it's no use being stupid if you never show it!"

[Bullethead 12]

Well, I was doing that based on examples over at the SOH forums

 

Well, SOH drove away OBD and banned my humble self, so they can't be so bright over there

 

Seriously, the whole point of owning a programmable stick is to program it using its own software, so you can't have to much around with game files. But as I said, be SURE to download the newest version from Saitek. Just throw the included disc away. Lord knows how old that disc version is and the old versions definitely had massive bugs.

[abyss 1]

Those functions marked with an *** should be converted to single keystroke in Controls, because at a moments notice you don't want to be messing around with 3 keys. Also it's one heck of a lot easier for your joystick to accept a single command than a macro.

 

There are many single key commands, not used in OFF that can be utilized this way:

Flaps Up & Down .............. F & V

Gear ................................ G

Brakes ..............................B

(That's 4, right there, I believe there's 9 total.)

 

Mixture Full Rich . . . . . . . . Ctrl+Shft+F7 ***

Mixture Increase . . . . . . . . Ctrl =

Mixture Decrease. . . . . . . . Ctrl -

Mixture Idle Cut-off . . . . . . .Ctrl+Shft+F6 *** Kills that engine dead, with one press (what a fitting use for 'B')

Aircraft Labels . . . . . . . . . .Ctrl+Shft+L ***

Virtual Cockpit . . . . . . . . . .Unassigned ***

Float View . . . . . . . . . . . . Shft+F6 (personal choice, for exterior view)

Disappearing Cockpit . . . . . F3 Place yourself in the V.C, first, want ‘Gun site’, hit F5

Start Engine . . . . . . . . . . . E

TAC Screen. . . . . . . . . . . Shft+T (drag to lower left corner, it's an immersion killer up there)

TAC Targets . . . . . . . . . . . T

TAC View Range . . . . . . . . Ctrl+Shft+T ***

Fly-By View . . . . . . . . . . . Shft+F9

Auto Trim . . . . . . . . . . . . Ctrl+A (Australian Autopilot)

Select Weapon . . . . . . . . . Back

Fire Weapon . . . . . . . . . . . Enter

Machine Guns . . . . . . . . . . Spacebar

Bomb/Rocket View . . . . . . . F9 *** (TrackIR conflict)

WARP . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .X

Cancel WARP . . . . . . . . . . .Ctrl+X

HUD w/Gauges . . . . . . . . . .F5

Gauges Cycle. . . . . . . . . . . Ctrl+Shft+1/2/3/4/5

Emergency Brake . . . . . . . . Ctrl+Shft+B

Dive Brakes Strutter . . . . . . D

Bomb Bay Doors Strutter . . . Shft+B

Windshield on N17 . . . . . . . .Shft+C

Reload Lewis Gun N17 . . . . . Shft+C (also for the SE5a; doesn't actually reload anything, it’s just for show)

Advance 1 Waypoint . . . . . .Shft+W

FPS and lots of info . . . . . . .Z (red jumble of numbers in upper left of screen, that's where the gauges get all their data from)

Maps in Cockpit . . . . . . . . . F7

Bombsite in Short . . . . . . . F7 (Phase 3 doesn't feature a Short)

Map . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . M (very crude, gives general idea of direction, check out OFF Downloads for some excellent maps)

Pilot & Iron Sights . . . . . . . .F6

Rear Gunner . . . . . . . . . . . .F8

Zoom IN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .]

Zoom OUT . . . . . . . . . . . . .[

Bail Out - Got NO Chute so why bail out

 

WINGMAN COMMANDS

Attack . . . A

Rejoin . . . .R

Help . . . . .H

Split . . . . .S

 

.

All the News that's fit to print

[OlPaint01 0]

@Abyss

 

Here are the remaining 5 single key commands, not used by OFF, making the total of nine:

 

Chat Window ...................... C

Panel Lights ..................... L

Measurement System ............... U

War Power ........................ W

Left Brake ....................... , (comma)

Right Brake ...................... . (period)

 

OlPaint

Edited December 13, 2011 by OlPaint01

[HumanDrone 4]

Thanks to all three of you! Yeah, as I said, this stick has to be "dumbed down" quite a bit for OFF. I'm surprised & sorry to hear about the SOH-OBD "split" - at least they still have a link to this forum. This forum is actually listed as a sub-forum of CFS3 over there. Bannantion is awful, too, things must've gotten pretty heated! But such is life.

 

I guess one reason I thought I had to muck about in the CFS3.xca file was that I didn't think CFS3 was "directly supported" by Saitek - well, that and what the guys said over there. But now I have to rip everything out anyway. I wanted to install all my sims under C:\FlightSims\<sim> to get around the Win 7 permission issues, and to keep things neat. But the ETO (and, I assume) the PTO expansions require that your "vanilla" CFS3 install is in C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Games\<sim>. So I have to disable my UCA, clean everything out (registry and all), and re-install, patch, then get into ETO and OFF installation.

 

But I'm tickled pink with the machine. The vendor, well, the could've done better, but hey. Someone got in a hurry and plugged the SATA 3 drives into the SATA 2 ports on the MB, but now that that's fixed, I'm gold. And I'm only at 4.1 GHz, still have plenty of room there. They had the VCore up too high as well. I didn't want to get into the overclocking myself, but after I saw what was going on, I thought I'd better check things out myself,so I've had a quick learning curve the last couple of days.

 

Anyway, thanks again! I really appreciate the lists!

 

Tom

[abyss 1]

At the risk of sounding somewhat repeticious, be sure to see: Uncle Al's Hints and Tips STICKY. Top of the page General Help

[Bullethead 12]

I'm surprised & sorry to hear about the SOH-OBD "split" - at least they still have a link to this forum. This forum is actually listed as a sub-forum of CFS3 over there. Bannantion is awful, too, things must've gotten pretty heated! But such is life.

 

That was indeed an ugly time. It happened right as P3 was being released so is ancient history now.

 

I guess one reason I thought I had to muck about in the CFS3.xca file was that I didn't think CFS3 was "directly supported" by Saitek - well, that and what the guys said over there.

 

Like I said, the SOH guys ain't very bright

 

It's been about 15 years since you've had to worry about joysticks supporting games and vice versa. Now, back in DOS days, sure, but not since Win95 or thereabouts. Anyway, for many years now, games have all been made to run under Windows. Part of that is that all inputs reach the game by way of Windows. IOW, the game isn't looking at the stick directly, but is looking to Windows. The game doesn't care where Windows gets its info--if Windows is happy, the game is happy. So, all you need is a joystick that works under Windows, which has also been universal for about 15 years.

 

What happens is, when you install your stick under Windows, you're basically telling Windows that when it's running a game that it needs to give stick inputs to, to get them from this particular stick. The stick calibration you do in Windows goes along with the inputs, which is why games no longer have their own joystick calibration screen like they did back in DOS days.

 

With programmable sticks like the X52, the installation of the stick and its programming software also tells Windows that the stick buttons are an additional keyboard attached to your system. Thus, Windows does exactly the same thing with the keystrokes whether they come from the buttons or the real keyboard. So, it passes them on to the game as keystrokes and the game uses them as keystrokes. The game can't tell and doesn't care where the keystroke came from, it just activates the command triggered by that keystroke.

 

If you don't believe that, do this test. With your profile loaded in your stick, open up Notepad and start pushing buttons. You'll see the keystrokes appearing as text. See, all Windows apps work the same way when it comes to inputs, so they'll all accept keystroke inputs from your stick. To them all, it's just another keyboard.

 

NOTE: This can sometimes cause problems outside of games. If your stick is loaded with a profile and one of the buttons is stuck, or a rotary is off its center dead zone, it will spam Windows with whatever keystroke is programmed on that button. So you'll be wondering why you're getting all these spurious characters when you're trying to type a forum message . The way to avoid this is to clear your profile when you're not using your stick, and to be careful when setting, making sure the rotaries are centered.

 

But now I have to rip everything out anyway. I wanted to install all my sims under C:\FlightSims\<sim> to get around the Win 7 permission issues, and to keep things neat. But the ETO (and, I assume) the PTO expansions require that your "vanilla" CFS3 install is in C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Games\<sim>. So I have to disable my UCA, clean everything out (registry and all), and re-install, patch, then get into ETO and OFF installation

 

It's always best to let apps install into their default folders. They work better that way.

[abyss 1]

I don't feel it a case of talking out of school

 

Only that one contribution to the rift, was the failure to provide numerous copies of Phase 3 . . gratis

[HumanDrone 4]

Bullethead:

 

Thanks again. I did some more mucking about with it last night after a re-install of CFS3 ETO up to 1.4. Now you say, HEY, WHAT ABOUT OFF? And rightly so, but I was trying to get ETO up for my brother-in-law's off night that he visits with us - he likes to fly BF109's for some reason... So I'll get to it, believe me.

 

Anyway, my problem seems to be that I have BOTH the X52 Pro and the Combat Rudder pedals. In the Saitek stick programming software, there is no place to program the rudder pedals - all I have are the stick inputs. I can knock out the twist axis on the stick, but there appears to be no way to program the pedals. Perhaps, as you say, Vinders just sees this as another keyboard, so I need a second instance of the Saitek software running - but that's mere supposition at this point, I don't know how CFS3 would know which was which, unless, as you say, it's merely another keyboard.

 

I'll be checking around, surely somebody out there runs these two in combination, or maybe you do, too, and I can't get it through my thick skull! But I sure appreciate your help.

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

[Bullethead 12]

Anyway, my problem seems to be that I have BOTH the X52 Pro and the Combat Rudder pedals. In the Saitek stick programming software, there is no place to program the rudder pedals - all I have are the stick inputs. I can knock out the twist axis on the stick, but there appears to be no way to program the pedals. Perhaps, as you say, Vinders just sees this as another keyboard, so I need a second instance of the Saitek software running - but that's mere supposition at this point, I don't know how CFS3 would know which was which, unless, as you say, it's merely another keyboard.

 

My bad. I forgot to mention something important here...

 

You have to install the pedals separately from the stick, and profile it separately. So be sure to get its latest software as well. Once you have all the software installed, you'll have 2 system tray icons, 1 for the stick/throttle and 1 for the rudder.

 

To your system, you end up with 2 "joysticks" and 3 "keyboards". The stick/throttle is the X, Y and throttle axes plus a keyboard, and the pedals are the Z axis and a keyboard, plus of course your real keyboard.

 

IMPORTANT NOTE: Besides just physically locking your stick, it's a very good idea to make your stick profile with the Z axis totally disabled. This is because even with the lock on, there's still a bit of play in the twist, which can confuse things when you're also pushing a pedal.

[HumanDrone 4]

Okay, trying it now...I unplugged the X52 and installed the software and I can now see the rudder pedals. So I'll see how it goes from here. And then onto TrackIR! Criminee, I'll be dizzy BEFORE I put the hat on at this rate!

 

Thanks again,

 

Tom

[HumanDrone 4]

Nope. I still can't get two instances running. From pecking about, it looks like i have to completely uninstall, then go back with the rudder pedals first, then the stick... I've also emailed Saitek tech support. You'd think that such a logical combination would have a well-defined install procedure available on their site. I kinda figured that, with the lack of said procedure, the software was S.M.A.R.T. enough to figure everything out! Shoulda known...

 

Later,

 

Tom

[Bullethead 12]

Good luck with it. I never had such troubles. I had the stick some time before I got the pedals, too.

 

The key thing is to get the lastest software for both items and install each one before plugging in the device it's for. The pedals have different software from the stick so you don't have 2 instances of 1 program, you have 1 instance of each. They have different icons even. Right-click on 1 to load its profile, then right-click the other to load its.

[HumanDrone 4]

Thanks, I tried again this afternoon, still only one instance. I just don't get it. I uninstalled, plugged them back in one at a time, the whole nine yards. Do I also have to install SMART one at a time? Maybe that's where I'm going wrong. But it seems like the D/L's at Saitek point you to the same program.

 

It's working fine in FSX anyway, even with only one icon on the task bar. I dunno, I can write code in 3 languages, I've built a couple of computers, but either I'm losing my edge or, well, like I said, if it's this touchy, why doesn't Saitek have an explicit procedure for installing the two? Surely I'm not the only one that's had this trouble? I'm going to call them Monday night.

 

Thanks, and Merry Christmas!

 

Tom