DCS: Light Sim?

[Stratos]

Seen that TK is not planning a SF3, that made me tought, shouldn't be possible a SF style game for DCS?? Not involving TK, is just an idea, for third party companies, FC is not using ultra realistic airplane procedures, and is still fun enough, don't you think a DCS: Vietnam with FC style airplanes can be the best sim ever? With light realism airplanes ala SF (with some realism enhancements like A-G radar) but still light.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Stratos

[exhausted]

If the planes, at minimum, meet the quality standards of FC2, then yes it would be awesome. The 3d models still need updates though.

[+SkateZilla]

Module with 3d External Model, a 3d Pit w/ Working Gauges (Even with no Clickables) and Simple FM would Surpass SF2.

[Stratos]

Module with 3d External Model, a 3d Pit w/ Working Gauges (Even with no Clickables) and Simple FM would Surpass SF2.

 

And from total ignorance, how much time will require such plane mod compared to a SF2 mod? A lot more?

[JediMaster]

To some extent. It depends how much time is put into it. You want a basic thing like say an F-15A it shouldn't be too hard, just take the C and downgrade its abilities and use the same 3D model w/new skins.

 

The main difference is the engine supports more, so you could put a ton of time into DCS/FC and it would show, while with SF2 you get diminishing returns...at a certain point you run into engine limits.

[+SkateZilla]

And from total ignorance, how much time will require such plane mod compared to a SF2 mod? A lot more?

 

Considering the SFM is pretty much darn near the same thing as Thirdwire's Engine and Aerodynamic Data... About the same time it takes to make a TW Mod..

 

Cockpit instruments might be easier to setup too. just have to learn the new Syntax for LUA over TKs INI.

 

ie: here;s the SFM For the F-18C (Look Familiar?):

 

 

mapclasskey = "P0091000025",

attribute = {wsType_Air, wsType_Airplane, wsType_Fighter, WSTYPE_PLACEHOLDER ,"Battleplanes",},

Categories = {"{78EFB7A2-FD52-4b57-A6A6-3BF0E1D6555F}", "Interceptor",},

 

 

 

 

 

-------------------------

M_empty = 14552,

M_nominal = 16651,

M_max = 21320,

M_fuel_max = 4930,

H_max = 15240,

average_fuel_consumption = 0.85,

CAS_min = 62,

V_opt = 180,

V_take_off = 69,

V_land = 65,

has_afteburner = true,

has_speedbrake = true,

main_gear_pos = {-2.319, -1.846, 1.57},

radar_can_see_ground = true,

nose_gear_pos = {3.02, -1.846, 0},

AOA_take_off = 0.16,

stores_number = 10,

bank_angle_max = 60,

Ny_min = -3,

Ny_max = 7,

tand_gear_max = 3.73,

V_max_sea_level = 361.1,

V_max_h = 541.7,

tanker_type = 2,

wing_area = 46.5,

wing_span = 13.62,

wing_type = FOLDED_WING,

thrust_sum_max = 26000,

thrust_sum_ab = 44000,

Vy_max = 254,

length = 18.31,

height = 4.88,

flaps_maneuver = 1,

Mach_max = 1.8,

range = 2346,

crew_size = 2,

RCS = 5,

Ny_max_e = 7.5,

detection_range_max = 160,

IR_emission_coeff = 0.58,

IR_emission_coeff_ab = 1.16,

engines_count = 2,

wing_tip_pos = {-2.466, 0.115, 7.107},

nose_gear_wheel_diameter = 0.566,

main_gear_wheel_diameter = 0.778,

engines_nozzles =

{

[1] =

{

pos = {-8.005, -0.003, 0.48},

elevation = -1.5,

diameter = 0.765,

exhaust_length_ab = 4,

exhaust_length_ab_K = 0.707,

}, -- end of [1]

[2] =

{

pos = {-8.005, -0.003, -0.48},

elevation = -1.5,

diameter = 0.765,

exhaust_length_ab = 4,

exhaust_length_ab_K = 0.707,

}, -- end of [2]

}, -- end of engines_nozzles

crew_members =

{

[1] =

{

ejection_seat_name = 17,

drop_canopy_name = 24,

pos = {3.755, 0.4, 0},

}, -- end of [1]

}, -- end of crew_members

brakeshute_name = 0,

is_tanker = false,

air_refuel_receptacle_pos = {6.574, 0.866, 0.727},

fires_pos =

{

[1] = {-0.232, 0.262, 0},

[2] = {-2.508, 0.08, 3.094},

[3] = {-2.815, 0.056, -3.639},

[4] = {-0.82, 0.265, 2.774},

[5] = {-0.82, 0.265, -2.774},

[6] = {-0.82, 0.255, 4.274},

[7] = {-0.82, 0.255, -4.274},

[8] = {-7.128, 0.039, 0.5},

[9] = {-7.728, 0.039, -0.5},

[10] = {-7.728, 0.039, 0.5},

[11] = {-7.728, 0.039, -0.5},

}, -- end of fires_pos

chaff_flare_dispenser =

{

[1] =

{

dir = {0, -1, 0},

pos = {-1.185, -1.728, -0.878},

}, -- end of [1]

[2] =

{

dir = {0, -1, 0},

pos = {-1.185, -1.728, 0.878},

}, -- end of [2]

}, -- end of chaff_flare_dispenser

 

 

 

 

--sensors

 

detection_range_max = 60,

radar_can_see_ground = true, -- this should be examined (what is this exactly?)

CanopyGeometry = {

azimuth = {-160.0, 160.0}, -- pilot view horizontal (AI)

elevation = {-50.0, 90.0} -- pilot view vertical (AI)

},

Sensors = {

RWR = "Abstract RWR", -- RWR type

RADAR = "N-019", -- Radar type

},

HumanRadio = {

frequency = 127.5, -- Radio Freq

editable = true,

minFrequency = 100.000,

maxFrequency = 156.000,

modulation = MODULATION_AM

},

 

 

Guns = {gun_mount("ADEN", {

count = 1000,

muzzle_pos_connector = "GUN_POINT",

muzzle_pos = {1, -0.5, -1},

elevation_initial = 2.000,

supply_position = {1, 0, 0},

effect_arg_number = 350,

}

)

},

 

 

Tasks = {

aircraft_task(CAP),

aircraft_task(Escort),

aircraft_task(FighterSweep),

aircraft_task(Intercept),

--aircraft_task(GAI),

aircraft_task(PinpointStrike),

aircraft_task(CAS),

aircraft_task(GroundAttack),

aircraft_task(RunwayAttack),

aircraft_task(SEAD),

aircraft_task(AFAC),

aircraft_task(AntishipStrike),

aircraft_task(Reconnaissance),

},

DefaultTask = aircraft_task(CAP),

 

SFM_Data = {

aerodynamics = -- Cx = Cx_0 + Cy^2*B2 +Cy^4*B4

{

Cy0 = 0, -- zero AoA lift coefficient

Mzalfa = 4.355, -- coefficients for pitch agility

Mzalfadt = 0.8, -- coefficients for pitch agility

kjx = 2.3,

kjz = 0.0011,

Czbe = -0.014, -- coefficient, along Z axis (perpendicular), affects yaw, negative value means force orientation in FC coordinate system

cx_gear = 0.3, -- coefficient, drag, gear

cx_flap = 0.08, -- coefficient, drag, full flaps

cy_flap = 0.4, -- coefficient, normal force, lift, flaps

cx_brk = 0.08, -- coefficient, drag, breaks

table_data =

{ -- M Cx0 Cya B B4 Omxmax Aldop Cymax

[1] = {0, 0.024, 0.07, 0.075, 0.12, 0.5, 30 , 1.2},

[2] = {0.2, 0.024, 0.07, 0.075, 0.12, 1.5, 30 , 1.2},

[3] = {0.4, 0.024, 0.07, 0.075, 0.12, 2.5, 30 , 1.2},

[4] = {0.6, 0.0239, 0.073, 0.075, 0.12, 3.5, 30 , 1.2},

[5] = {0.7, 0.024, 0.076, 0.075, 0.12, 3.5, 28.666666666667 , 1.18},

[6] = {0.8, 0.0235, 0.079, 0.075, 0.12, 3.5, 27.333333333333 , 1.16},

[7] = {0.9, 0.025, 0.083, 0.075, 0.125, 3.5, 26 , 1.14},

[8] = {1 , 0.044, 0.085, 0.14, 0.1, 3.5, 24.666666666667 , 1.12},

[9] = {1.05, 0.0465, 0.0855, 0.1775, 0.125, 3.5, 24 , 1.11},

[10] = {1.1, 0.049, 0.086, 0.215, 0.15, 3.15, 18 , 1.1},

[11] = {1.2, 0.049, 0.083, 0.228, 0.17, 2.45, 17, 1.05},

[12] = {1.3, 0.049, 0.077, 0.237, 0.2, 1.75, 16, 1},

[13] = {1.5, 0.0475, 0.062, 0.251, 0.2, 1.5, 13, 0.9},

[14] = {1.7, 0.045166666666667, 0.051333333333333, 0.24366666666667, 0.32, 0.9, 12, 0.7},

[15] = {1.8, 0.044, 0.046, 0.24, 0.38, 0.86, 11.4, 0.64},

[16] = {2, 0.043, 0.039, 0.222, 2.5, 0.78, 10.2, 0.52},

[17] = {2.2, 0.041, 0.034, 0.227, 3.2, 0.7, 9, 0.4},

[18] = {2.5, 0.04, 0.033, 0.25, 4.5, 0.7, 9, 0.4},

[19] = {3.9, 0.035, 0.033, 0.35, 6, 0.7, 9, 0.4},

}, -- end of table_data

-- M - Mach number

-- Cx0 - Coefficient, drag, profile, of the airplane

-- Cya - Normal force coefficient of the wing and body of the aircraft in the normal direction to that of flight. Inversely proportional to the available G-loading at any Mach value. (lower the Cya value, higher G available) per 1 degree AOA

-- B - Polar quad coeff

-- B4 - Polar 4th power coeff

-- Omxmax - roll rate, rad/s

-- Aldop - Alfadop Max AOA at current M - departure threshold

-- Cymax - Coefficient, lift, maximum possible (ignores other calculations if current Cy > Cymax)

}, -- end of aerodynamics

engine =

{

Nmg = 62, -- RPM at idle

MinRUD = 0, -- Min state of the throttle

MaxRUD = 1, -- Max state of the throttle

MaksRUD = 0.85, -- Military power state of the throttle

ForsRUD = 0.91, -- Afterburner state of the throttle

typeng = 1,

--[[

E_TURBOJET = 0

E_TURBOJET_AB = 1

E_PISTON = 2

E_TURBOPROP = 3

E_TURBOFAN = 4

E_TURBOSHAFT = 5

--]]

 

hMaxEng = 19, -- Max altitude for safe engine operation in km

dcx_eng = 0.0124, -- Engine drag coeficient

cemax = 1.24, -- not used for fuel calulation , only for AI routines to check flight time ( fuel calculation algorithm is built in )

cefor = 2.56, -- not used for fuel calulation , only for AI routines to check flight time ( fuel calculation algorithm is built in )

dpdh_m = 2000, -- altitude coefficient for max thrust

dpdh_f = 4200, -- altitude coefficient for AB thrust

table_data =

{ -- M Pmax Pfor

[1] = {0, 88000, 141000},

[2] = {0.2, 80000, 143000},

[3] = {0.4, 79000, 150000},

[4] = {0.6, 82000, 165000},

[5] = {0.7, 90000, 177000},

[6] = {0.8, 94000, 193000},

[7] = {0.9, 96000, 200000},

[8] = {1, 100000, 205000},

[9] = {1.1, 100000, 214000},

[10] = {1.2, 98000, 222000},

[11] = {1.3, 100000, 235000},

[12] = {1.5, 98000, 258000},

[13] = {1.8, 94000, 276000},

[14] = {2, 88000, 283000},

[15] = {2.2, 82000, 285000},

[16] = {2.5, 80000, 287000},

[17] = {3.9, 50000, 200000},

}, -- end of table_data

-- M - Mach number

-- Pmax - Engine thrust at military power

-- Pfor - Engine thrust at AFB

}, -- end of engine

},

--damage , index meaning see in Scripts\Aircrafts\_Common\Damage.lua

Damage = {

[0] = {critical_damage = 5, args = {146}},

[3] = {critical_damage = 20,args = {65}} ,

[4] = {critical_damage = 20, args = {150}},

[5] = {critical_damage = 20, args = {147}},

[7] = {critical_damage = 4, args = {249}} ,

[9] = {critical_damage = 3, args = {154}},

[10] = {critical_damage = 3, args = {153}},

[11] = {critical_damage = 3, args = {167}},

[12] = {critical_damage = 3, args = {161}},

[15] = {critical_damage = 5, args = {267}},

[16] = {critical_damage = 5, args = {266}},

[23] = {critical_damage = 8, args = {223}, deps_cells = {25}},

[24] = {critical_damage = 8, args = {213}, deps_cells = {26, 60}},

[25] = {critical_damage = 3, args = {226}},

[26] = {critical_damage = 3, args = {216}},

[29] = {critical_damage = 9, args = {224}, deps_cells = {31, 25, 23}},

[30] = {critical_damage = 9, args = {214}, deps_cells = {32, 26, 24, 60}},

[31] = {critical_damage = 4, args = {229}},

[32] = {critical_damage = 4, args = {219}},

[35] = {critical_damage = 10, args = {225}, deps_cells = {29, 31, 25, 23}},

[36] = {critical_damage = 10, args = {215}, deps_cells = {30, 32, 26, 24, 60}} ,

[37] = {critical_damage = 4, args = {227}},

[38] = {critical_damage = 4, args = {217}},

[39] = {critical_damage = 7, args = {244}, deps_cells = {53}},

[40] = {critical_damage = 7, args = {241}, deps_cells = {54}},

[45] = {critical_damage = 9, args = {235}, deps_cells = {39, 51, 53}},

[46] = {critical_damage = 9, args = {233}, deps_cells = {40, 52, 54}},

[51] = {critical_damage = 3, args = {239}},

[52] = {critical_damage = 3, args = {237}},

[53] = {critical_damage = 3, args = {248}},

[54] = {critical_damage = 3, args = {247}},

[55] = {critical_damage = 20, args = {81}, deps_cells = {39, 40, 45, 46, 51, 52, 53, 54}},

[59] = {critical_damage = 5, args = {148}},

[60] = {critical_damage = 1, args = {144}},

 

[83] = {critical_damage = 3, args = {134}} ,-- nose wheel

[84] = {critical_damage = 3, args = {136}}, -- left wheel

[85] = {critical_damage = 3, args = {135}} ,-- right wheel

},

 

DamageParts =

{

[1] = "Wunderluft-part-wing-R", -- wing R

[2] = "Wunderluft-part-wing-L", -- wing L

[3] = "Wunderluft-part-nose", -- nose

[4] = "Wunderluft-part-tail", -- tail

},

 

lights_data = {

typename = "collection",

lights = {

[1] = { typename = "collection",

lights = {-- Left Anticollision Light

{typename = "natostrobelight",

connector = "WHITE_BEACON L",

argument_1 = 195,

period = 1.2,

phase_shift = 0

},

-- Right Anticollision Light

{typename = "natostrobelight",

connector = "WHITE_BEACON R",

argument_1 = 196,

period = 1.2,

phase_shift = 0

},

-- Tail Anticollision Light

{typename = "natostrobelight",

connector = "BANO_0_BACK",

argument_1 = 192,

period = 1.2,

phase_shift = 0

}

}

},

[2] = { typename = "collection",

lights = {-- Landing light

{typename = "spotlight",

connector = "MAIN_SPOT_PTR_02",

argument = 209,

dir_correction = {elevation = math.rad(-1)}

},

{-- Landing/Taxi light

typename = "spotlight",

connector = "MAIN_SPOT_PTR_01",

argument = 208,

dir_correction = {elevation = math.rad(3)}

}

}

},

[3] = { typename = "collection",

lights = {-- Left Position Light (red)

{typename = "omnilight",

connector = "BANO_1",

color = {0.99, 0.11, 0.3},

pos_correction = {0, 0, -0.2},

argument = 190

},

-- Right Position Light (green)

{typename = "omnilight",

connector = "BANO_2",

color = {0, 0.894, 0.6},

pos_correction = {0, 0, 0.2},

argument = 191

},

-- Tail Position Light (white)

{typename = "omnilight",

connector = "BANO_0_BACK",

color = {1, 1, 1},

pos_correction = {0, 0, 0},

argument = 203

}}

},

[4] = { typename = "collection",

lights = {{typename = "collection",

lights = {

-- Top Formation Light (white)

{typename = "omnilight",

connector = "BANO_0_TOP",

color = {1, 1, 1},

},

{typename = "argumentlight", argument = 202},

-- Bottom Formation Light (white)

{typename = "omnilight",

connector = "BANO_0_BOTTOM",

color = {1, 1, 1},

},

{typename = "argumentlight", argument = 201},

}

},

-- Tail formation lights

{typename = "collection",

lights = {{

-- Right Tail Formation Light

typename = "spotlight",

connector = "BANO_W_HR",

color = {1.0, 1.0, 1.0},

intensity_max = 6,

angle_max = 0.65,

argument = 205,

dont_change_color = false,

angle_change_rate = 0,

pos_correction = {0.0, 0.0, 0.1},

dir_correction = {azimuth = math.rad(-3), elevation = math.rad(9)},

},

{

-- Left Tail Formation Light

typename = "spotlight",

connector = "BANO_W_HL",

color = {1.0, 1.0, 1.0},

intensity_max = 6,

angle_max = 0.65,

argument = 204,

dont_change_color = false,

angle_change_rate = 0,

pos_correction = {0.0, 0.0, -0.1},

dir_correction = {azimuth = math.rad(-3), elevation = math.rad(-9)},

}

},

},

-- Electroluminescent formation lights

{typename = "argumentlight", argument = 200},

}

},

[5] = {typename = "collection",

lights = {

{typename = "collection",

lights = {{

-- Right Nacelle Floodlight

typename = "spotlight",

position = {0.5, 1.2, 0},

color = {1.0, 1.0, 1.0},

intensity_max = 6.0,

angle_max = 0.45,

direction = {azimuth = math.rad(150), elevation = math.rad(5)},

dont_change_color = false,

angle_change_rate = 0

},

{

-- Left Nacelle Floodlight

typename = "spotlight",

position = {0.5, 1.2, 0},

color = {1.0, 1.0, 1.0},

intensity_max = 6.0,

angle_max = 0.45,

direction = {azimuth = math.rad(-150), elevation = math.rad(5)},

dont_change_color = false,

angle_change_rate = 0

},

{typename = "argumentlight", argument = 212},

},

},

{typename = "collection",

lights = {{

-- Left Nose Floodlight

typename = "spotlight",

position = {0, -0.3, -5.80},

color = {1.0, 1.0, 1.0},

intensity_max = 6.0, angle_max = 0.45,

direction = {azimuth = math.rad(45)},

argument = 211,

dont_change_color = false,

angle_change_rate = 0

},

{

-- Right Nose Floodlight

typename = "spotlight",

position = {0, -0.3, 5.80},

color = {1.0, 1.0, 1.0},

intensity_max = 6.0,

angle_max = 0.45,

direction = {azimuth = math.rad(-45)},

argument = 210,

dont_change_color = false,

angle_change_rate = 0

}

}

},

-- UARRSI light

{

typename = "omnilight", position = {6.5, 0.4, 0}, color = {1, 1, 1}

}

},

}

}

},

[Stratos]

Even I recognize some of the things, hope is a good sign.

 

With the new terrain engine (EDGE) they say it will be easier to build terrains than in our current Thirdwire engine. I’m sure a lot of people will love to see a Vietnam terrain, but that will require tons of new objects, maybe we can reuse the objects we have in Thirdwire?? The ones in Green Hell maybe? Huts, buildings, bases...

 

Some of our fellow members/modders are scared of DCS complexity (as I am, as I own A10C but never destroyed anything with his weapons), but If we can replicate thirdwire accesibility in DCS:world that can be a real hit.

[+SkateZilla]

not to mention the Adv.FM, Wags and Other ED Team Members as well as other 3rd party devs are all helping each other.

 

When's the last time TW posted a long explanation of how to disect and construct each INI for a Testbed Aircraft, w/ Details for Every section and what the values mean/do?

 

I think a community member did that for SF1/SF2

[Stratos]

AFM Phantom...

[+SkateZilla]

TBH it would take a Weekend to convert A 3d Model built for ThirdWire to DCS Standards. (Textures, and Animations Wise)

 

Then you'd have to add the Connectors for Lights/Strobes/Guns/Pylons.

 

Then the AnimationArg#s for revealing Damaged/Destroyed Nodes. Arg# Animations Make it easier to have Surfaces linked w/ more than one system (Tail Stabs doing Pitch and Roll movements etc).

 

If Someone is smart enough to understand the SFM Data, and they have enough, they can prolly build an AFM using the Template provided by ED in the DCSW Folder.

 

Script the LUA files. Set the Module, Allow AI to Fly it (I put the AI Super Bug in a Guns only Battle vs an AI F-16, and it was kinda crazy.)

 

Then all you'd have to do is repeat for the 3d Cockpit.

 

Model all the switches and knobs, Build the systems in LUA, Script them, and Link Gauges to data in the LUA Files.

 

But Once I'm done learning the 3ds/LUA Side, I'll be moving on to other projects, like I said, the EA18G was a test bed, and TBH the only reason it's an EA18G and not an F18E/F is because I had already had all the Parts set for the G, and I didnt Feel Like swapping out all the G parts for the E or F.

 

I already have 3 Airframes imported and Working Perfectly in DCSW for the AI. 1 that was built for TW's Engine, and 2 from FSX.

 

In My experience w/ the Behavior of the SuperBug Airframe using a Accurate SFM, the DCS World SFM is still above ThirdWires FM.

Especially in Low Speed/Stall Situations.

 

Once a group was to become efficient at it, we *could* convert Thirdwire Models to DCSW in a matter of weeks per Airframe.

Especially in the Vietnam and Prior era that uses less MFDs and Avionics and just Gauges and Scopes.

[Stratos]

Once a group was to become efficient at it, we *could* convert Thirdwire Models to DCSW in a matter of weeks per Airframe.

Especially in the Vietnam and Prior era that uses less MFDs and Avionics and just Gauges and Scopes.

 

I'm the only one seeing the potential here? SF will not evolve more, I think is time to move to DCS.

 

BTW, once you have a airframe added, the process of adding variants, is easier/faster? For example, having the F-4C and adding the F-4D and F-4E.