+WhiteBoySamurai Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 I'm going to be making a whole line of ground objects for the Asian theaters, especially Korea, but I've run into a sticking point with tanks. I want to make a working .50 cal in addition to the main gun. I'm also trying to get things working on existing tanks where possible. But it seems like having a gunner on top of a node which is also a gunner messes things up. Everything works fine when either the main gun is at its neutral position (yaw 0). But when the turret turns, the machine gun's muzzle position also rotates. Since that probably makes no sense, I'm attaching some pics of the M1, T-80, and finally my own model: It doesn't seem to matter which component I put the machine gun under in the data.ini. The only workaround I've found is to link the machine gun to the chassis instead of the turret in the model hierarchy, but that's no good unless the machine gun is positioned right above the turret's pivot point (otherwise the gun will float around the turret when it rotates). Any ideas? Quote
FastCargo Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 I'd be curious as well...I was running into the same issue with ground objects I was creating. FC Quote
+russouk2004 Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 add a virtual gunner and gun...heres what I did for the rear gun on the B-58... unless someone else knows more about tank mg`s I made a dummy component for the yaw....linked to fuselage (Tank Turret ?) and linked the gun to that... [Chaingun] SystemType=FLEXIBLE_GUN GunTypeName=23MM_AM23 MuzzlePosition=0.00,-14.47,0.96 MaxAmmo=500 TracerLoading=5 BurstAmount=10 GunnerID=1 MinExtentPosition=-0.028,-14.5,0.937 MaxExtentPosition=0.028,-14.281,0.992 [Chaingunyaw] SystemType=FLEXIBLE_GUN GunTypeName=23MM_AM23 MuzzlePosition=0.00,-14.47,0.96 MaxAmmo=500 TracerLoading=5 BurstAmount=10 GunnerID=1 MinExtentPosition=-0.005,-14.266,0.962 MaxExtentPosition=-0.004,-14.226,0.967 this is the virtual gunner [TailGunner] SystemType=GUNNER_STATION SeatID=4 GunnerID=1 SetCockpitPosition=FALSE MinExtentPosition=-0.003,-14.323,0.962 MaxExtentPosition=0.003,-14.301,0.967 PitchModelNodeName=Chaingun YawModelNodeName=Chaingun2 GunRange=2500 GunnerFireChance=90 GunnerFireTime=1.0 GunnerAimOffset=0.050 GunnerAimAccuracy=90 PitchAngleRate=45 MaxPitch=10 MinPitch=-10 DefaultPitchAngle=0 YawLimited=TRUE < this to false will allow gunner to fire any direction? YawAngleRate=45 MaxYaw=170 MinYaw=190 DefaultYawAngle=180 < this I guess you would need to set at 360 degrees? thats all I can suggest...unless theres a movinggun=true entry or such? Quote
Wrench Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 wouldn't the MG cupola need a seperate node? I remember when I first added the MGs to 1stGen back in 05, we just 'ignored' the face they weren't really connected to to turret or chasis. I know the Abrams, being 3rdParty has a OUT that lists the MG cupola; that what I used. But I can't recall if the sub-turret (for lack of a better term for the cupola) was animated and nowadays, without access to the 3W lods....be diffucult to figure it out (of cousre, some are still in SF/Wo* and lods can be extracted and browsed with a hex editor) Quote
+russouk2004 Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 have a look thru this... its for guns in turret and forwards hull...but should apply to a mounted gun mebbe? [MissionData] NationName=Nazi Germany ServiceStartYear=1939 ServiceEndYear=1957 GroundObjectRole=TANK Availability=COMMON Exported=TRUE ExportStartYear=1948 ExportAvailability=COMMON [GroundObjectData] DamagedModel= DestroyedModel=Tank_Destroyed.LOD DestroyedEffect=VehicleFireEffect EmptyMass=27000.00 Component[001]=Chassis Component[002]=Turret [sound] EngineSoundName=TankEngine MovementSoundName=TankTrack [DetectSystem] TargetType=GROUND DataLink=FALSE OpticalSight=TRUE NightSight=TRUE VisualRange=2000.0 ViewportPosition=0.0,0.0,2.30 MaxVisibleDistance=4800.0 RadarCrossSection=10 [WeaponSystem] TargetType=GROUND GunRange=1100.0 PitchAngleRate=10 MaxPitch=15.0 MinPitch=-3.0 DefaultPitchAngle=3 YawLimited=FALSE YawAngleRate=15 DefaultYawAngle=0 ReloadGunAtAngle=TRUE GunReloadPitchAngle=17.0 GunRecoil=100 GunStabilization=FALSE GunRadarTracking=FALSE RangeFinder=2 BallisticComputer=0 YawModelNodeName=Turret PitchModelNodeName=GunPitch [MovementSystem] MaxRoadSpeed=32.4 MaxOffRoadSpeed=10 PowerAvailable=230 MaxTurnRate=20.0 MaxDeceleration=6.0 SuspensionConstant=25.0 MovementEmitterName=TrackedVehicleDustEmitter MovementEmitterPosition=0.0000,-2.7337,0.1128 [Chassis] ModelNodeName=chassis EffectSize=1.0 MinExtentPosition=-1.411,-2.931,0.388 MaxExtentPosition=1.411,2.931,1.704 HasArmor=TRUE ArmorMaterial=STEEL Armor[FRONT].Thickness=14.5 Armor .Thickness=14.5 Armor .Thickness=14.5 Armor[REAR].Thickness=14.5 Armor[TOP].Thickness=10 Armor[bOTTOM].Thickness=11 SystemName[001]=Engine SystemName[002]=MG02 SystemName[003]=Gunner2 [Turret] ParentComponentName=chassis ModelNodeName=turret DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE EffectSize=1.0 MinExtentPosition=-0.964,-1.153,1.698 MaxExtentPosition=0.964,0.824,2.328 HasArmor=TRUE ArmorMaterial=STEEL Armor[FRONT].Thickness=16 Armor .Thickness=14.5 Armor .Thickness=14.5 Armor[REAR].Thickness=14.5 Armor[TOP].Thickness=10 SystemName[001]=GunBarrel SystemName[002]=MG01 SystemName[003]=Gunner1 [Engine] SystemType=ENGINE MinExtentPosition=-0.459,-2.203,1.004 MaxExtentPosition=0.467,-1.013,1.564 [Gunner1] SystemType=GUNNER GunnerID=1 TargetType=GROUND GunRange=600.0 PitchAngleRate=16 MaxPitch=20.0 MinPitch=-10.0 DefaultPitchAngle=0 YawLimited=TRUE YawAngleRate=16 MinYaw=-30.0 MaxYaw=30.0 DefaultYawAngle=0.0 YawModelNodeName=GunPitch PitchModelNodeName=MG01 VisualSearchTime=10.0 [Gunner2] SystemType=GUNNER GunnerID=2 TargetType=GROUND GunRange=600.0 PitchAngleRate=16 MaxPitch=20.0 MinPitch=-10.0 DefaultPitchAngle=0 YawLimited=TRUE YawAngleRate=16 MinYaw=-30.0 MaxYaw=30.0 DefaultYawAngle=0.0 YawModelNodeName=MG02YAW PitchModelNodeName=MG02 VisualSearchTime=10.0 [GunBarrel] SystemType=GUN GunTypeName=75mm KwK 37 L/24 MuzzlePosition=0.00,1.98,1.97 MaxAmmo=60 EjectShells=FALSE [MG01] SystemType=GUN GunTypeName=MG MK.30 MuzzlePosition=0.33,1.11,1.97 MaxAmmo=900 EjectShells=FALSE TracerLoading=5 BurstAmount=10 [MG02] SystemType=GUN GunTypeName=MG MK.30 MuzzlePosition=0.57,1.98,1.44 MaxAmmo=900 EjectShells=FALSE TracerLoading=5 BurstAmount=10 Quote
Wrench Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 iirc, like ships, tanks should have a 'gunner' statement for each gun. I could be wrong, too! Quote
+WhiteBoySamurai Posted November 11, 2012 Author Posted November 11, 2012 wouldn't the MG cupola need a seperate node? I remember when I first added the MGs to 1stGen back in 05, we just 'ignored' the face they weren't really connected to to turret or chasis. I know the Abrams, being 3rdParty has a OUT that lists the MG cupola; that what I used. But I can't recall if the sub-turret (for lack of a better term for the cupola) was animated and nowadays, without access to the 3W lods....be diffucult to figure it out (of cousre, some are still in SF/Wo* and lods can be extracted and browsed with a hex editor) By separate node, do you mean one of the central components like this? [GroundObjectData] //blah blah Component[001]=Hull Component[002]=Turret Component[003]=Machinegun I tried that, but it still has the same muzzle position glitch. (And this also causes the tank to be destroyed easily as soon as the tiny unarmored machine gun component is hit.) The Abrams model's MG cupola is indeed fully animated (YawModelNodeName=MGTurret, PitchModelNodeName=MG). You can sort of see it in the screenshots above. According to the .OUT file it's linked to the turret in the hierarchy. Same with the T-80's machine gun, and my Type 90. The thing about the stock tanks is that their machine guns are just static parts, and only the main gun is operational. So either TK didn't think MGs were needed (even though it would make it more exciting if those ground objects could take shots at low-flyers on CAS missions), or maybe even HE can't get it to work right. >_> have a look thru this... its for guns in turret and forwards hull...but should apply to a mounted gun mebbe? Russo, could you tell us how the model hierarchy is set up for that tank model? Specifically, what are GunPitch and MG01 connected to? And can you confirm that the machine guns aren't having the same sort of problem I described? Here's the relevant data from my tank at present: [GroundObjectData] DamagedModel= DestroyedModel=Tank_Destroyed.LOD DestroyedEffect=VehicleFireEffect EmptyMass=50200.00 Component[001]=Hull Component[002]=Turret ... ... [WeaponSystem] TargetType=GROUND GunRange=3200.0 PitchAngleRate=16 MaxPitch=15.0 MinPitch=-12.0 DefaultPitchAngle=0 YawLimited=FALSE YawAngleRate=24 DefaultYawAngle=0 ReloadGunAtAngle=FALSE GunRecoil=100 GunStabilization=TRUE GunRadarTracking=FALSE RangeFinder=8 BallisticComputer=6 YawModelNodeName=turret PitchModelNodeName=maingun ... [Hull] ModelNodeName=hull ... SystemName[001]=Engine [Turret] ParentComponentName=Hull ModelNodeName=turret DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE ... SystemName[001]=MainGun SystemName[002]=Gunner2 SystemName[003]=HMG DetachNode[001]=HMGmount ... [MainGun] SystemType=GUN GunTypeName=120MM_L44J MuzzlePosition=0.00,5.53,1.714 MaxAmmo=35 EjectShells=FALSE [Gunner2] SystemType=GUNNER GunnerID=2 TargetType=AIR_AND_GROUND GunRange=1200 PitchAngleRate=15 MaxPitch=70.0 MinPitch=-5.0 DefaultPitchAngle=0 YawLimited=FALSE YawAngleRate=30 MinYaw= MaxYaw= DefaultYawAngle=0 GunMinAltitude=0.0 GunMaxAltitude=1200.0 YawModelNodeName=HMGmount PitchModelNodeName=HMG VisualSearchTime=8.0 ViewportPosition=-0.08,0.375,2.62 IndependentSearchChance=100 LookAroundChance=100 GunnerFireChance=100 GunnerFireTime=0.5 ParentComponentName=turret DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE [HMG] GunnerID=2 SystemType=GUN GunTypeName=50CAL_M2 MuzzlePosition=-0.075,1.45,2.62 MaxAmmo=1500 TracerLoading=2 BurstAmount=6 EjectShells=TRUE There's another stange thing about tanks I noticed. All else being equal, main guns are very accurate if set as the WeaponSystem, but tend to wildly overshoot or undershoot if set as an individual Gunner. (From my experience with ships, this could potentially be corrected with adjustments to pivot points, viewpoints, etc. etc.) Also, ground vehicles tend to stop and shoot rather than fire on the move if using a WeaponSystem. Quote
+russouk2004 Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 For some odd reason...turret of theausf A wont rotate,even tho its pivot is centred,aligned to world etc....but the gun pivot (gunpitch) does try to turn right and left....weird. heres shots of the setup linking the guns...and my out file. of the pzkw ausf A Chassis [131 polys, 206 verts] '7 - Default' Turret [32 polys, 54 verts] '7 - Default' GunPitch [20 polys, 32 verts] '7 - Default' MG01 [24 polys, 25 verts] '7 - Default' Box12 [40 polys, 64 verts] '7 - Default' Object01 [34 polys, 44 verts] '7 - Default' GunBarrel [132 polys, 91 verts] '7 - Default' Sphere02 [40 polys, 26 verts] '7 - Default' Cupola [212 polys, 238 verts] '7 - Default' Cylinder07 [18 polys, 13 verts] '7 - Default' Box13 [180 polys, 216 verts] '7 - Default' Box01 [10 polys, 20 verts] '7 - Default' Cylinder12 [52 polys, 60 verts] '7 - Default' Cylinder04 [28 polys, 32 verts] '7 - Default' Cylinder06 [16 polys, 15 verts] '7 - Default' Cylinder14 [36 polys, 48 verts] '7 - Default' Cylinder13 [30 polys, 34 verts] '7 - Default' Cylinder15 [24 polys, 25 verts] '7 - Default' Cylinder16 [72 polys, 58 verts] '7 - Default' Cylinder17 [72 polys, 58 verts] '7 - Default' LeftTracks01 [72 polys, 78 verts] '7 - Default' LeftTracks02 [72 polys, 78 verts] '7 - Default' Sphere01 [40 polys, 26 verts] '7 - Default' Box06 [10 polys, 20 verts] '7 - Default' Cylinder01 [22 polys, 30 verts] '7 - Default' Box10 [10 polys, 20 verts] '7 - Default' MG02YAW [8 polys, 9 verts] '7 - Default' MG02 [24 polys, 31 verts] '7 - Default' Num Nodes: 28 Total: (1461 polys, 1651 verts) Mesh Max: (212 polys, 238 verts) 1 Materials: ( 1) 7 - Default: PKW IV ATex.jpg PKW IV ATex.dds (bump map) 1 Textures: PKW IV ATex.jpg Points mg02=0.57,1.98,1.44 maingun=0.00,1.98,1.97 mg01=0.33,1.11,1.97 Quote
+russouk2004 Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 just a thought...have a look at the A26 turrets...they rotate and are multi direction firing ...see how they are set up Quote
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