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zoomzoom

Seeking advice from my OFF brethren.

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Well, the auspicious time is approaching when I slip off the surly bonds of my old wheezing and lethargic gaming rig, and pony up the cash for something truly worthy of playing Over Flanders Fields with. It has been a long time coming, but here we are. So, in that light, I must first thank all of you who have been so helpful in the past in keeping my enemic rig somewhat capable. Secondly, I would very much appreciate any of you who might do so, taking the time to look at the two options I've listed below and providing your qualified opinions on which you think is the best choice for a new gaming rig, and why.

 

Option 1: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=851770

 

Option 2: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4990118&csid=_61&SRCCODE=WEBLETBP034

 

Many thanks,

 

ZZ.

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Option 2 is the winner!

 

I'm an NVIDIA guy, but this isn't a fair match--the Radeon HD 7750 crushes the GT 520. Option 2 has a better processor as well. 300 Watt power supply is bare minimum though, especially if you ever want to add more drives in the future or even just plug in a bunch of power-drawing USB peripherals.

 

Win8's not my thing, but that's mostly a matter of taste I suppose.

 

If you want to go NVIDIA, at least a GTX 550 or 650 to beat that Radeon card, but be on the lookout for a good deal on a 560 or 660.

Edited by Lothar of the Hill People

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Option 3: AMD FX-6300 (3.50GHz), 8GB DDR3, NVIDIA Geforce GTX 650, 300 Watts

 

Option 4: AMD FX-6300 (3.50GHz) 16GB DDR3, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650Ti, 650 Watts

 

Both have far better processors and graphics than your 1 + 2. Option 4 is a tad more expensive but may be worth it for the extra memory, even faster graphics (the Ti is a nice step up over the regular 650, 20-40% faster in most games), and power for future expandability.

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Thanks Lothar. I really like your Option 3. Now I'm going to have to do some reading on it, but I am leaning heavily in that direction. These are great suggestions. I'm still trying to have some $ left for the newest version of TrackIR, so keeping things in the 600 range is helpful. Also, some good news is I'm using a large (I believe plasma) Hi-def TV as my monitior, so I don't need to shell anything out for that element. Just need to be sure the machine has an HDMI output.

 

ZZ.

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At the risk of starting a turf war....Lothar you say you prefer the Nvidia over the Raedon. Might I ask why, for instance is it more suited to OFF and similar titles, or are there other things that make it preferable to you? Just curious as I have no affinity either way.

 

ZZ.

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I prefer NVIDIA for the more stable/reliable drivers and CUDA programming--though only the former likely interests you.

 

Specifically in this case, the NVIDIA 650 is a mid-range card while the Radeon 7750 is an entry-level card--fine for lowest-common-denominator crud like WOW but not really suited to more demanding games. Here's a general performance comparison, and I'm sure you can find comparative benchmarks of specific games if you google around though nothing so old as CFS3.

 

You could find a more expensive, mid-range Radeon for OFF--ie the 7770 which is about on par with the NVIDIA GTX 650. And as I said, the 650Ti really is decent jump over the plain 650.

 

If you can wait, the NVIDIA mid-range (650/660/Ti) should drop in price later this summer when the next generation arrives (starting with the 760Ti in July). This should also put pressure on the price of the Radeon 7770.

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Probably a good deal if you as you can get a cheaper machine without a graphics card (integrated graphics) and maybe a better processor:

 

Option 5: Intel i5 (3.1Ghz), 8GB DDR3, Integrated graphics

 

Add a GTX 550Ti and this the best performer for OFF, which will appreciate the added single-threaded CPU performance more than moving up GTX 650. OFF can't benefit from the 6 cores of the AMD FX-6300, so an Intel i5 will be a major difference.

 

Getting the BIOS to switch from integrated to PCIE graphics can be a headache but works if you follow instructions. It's the power supply that worry me. One of those NewEgg reviews say it's enough for the GTX 650Ti so the 550Ti should survive... But all of these cheap machines, the power supply is one area that's too cheaped-out, designed to fail shortly after the year or whatever warranty and in the meantime providing unstable power streams that lessen the lifetime of other components such as these fancy graphics cards. Something you'd want to look at upgrading soon anyway.

Edited by Lothar of the Hill People

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Thanks so much guys, this is really helpful. Appreciate the offer Mudwasp, but I'm still leaning to Lothar's Option 3 at this point. I do need an entirely new machine, as I don't even trust the rest of the antiquated components in my old rig to support anything new...lol. I think Nvidia will work fine, as you said Lothar with OFF or ROF, and really any of the options you showed me will leave my current machine in the dust, so I'm sure I will be pleased with the difference in processing power. You mentioned Mudwasp that with the GTX550-ti you could run everything on 5 except terrain and scenery. So, rule of thumb, (and I know this is something you guys really cant totally verify and thats fine...I'm just trying to find some gauge of reference) with the slightly better card in Option 3, would this be a significant enough difference to be able to for instance run all the sliders on max-(5)? Perhaps this is impossible to answer...(results may vary)...lol..I know.

 

ZZ.

 

PS. How late in the summer do you think the prices will change?

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I really don't know if the 650 would do that, my 660-Ti top does.

 

Back in late 2006 I bought a computer from cyberpower. They offer a HUGE costumizing list of name brand components.

 

cyberpowerpc.com

Edited by MudWasp48

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You'll definitely get better performance in OFF with the Intel i5 and MudWasp's GTX 550Ti (Option 5) than the AMD FX-6300 with a GTX 650 (Option 3). The single-threaded CPU performance will be the limiting factor rather than the graphics card.

 

But Option 5 may be more of a headache having to arrange for and install the graphics card yourself.

Edited by Lothar of the Hill People

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"But Option 5

 

But Option 5 may be more of a headache having to arrange for and install the graphics card yourself.

 

Yes, that is exactly my concern, and I'm looking for something a little simpler this go round instead of having to fuss over getting components to "play nice" with each other.  Lol, I figure I can do that later anyway when elements become so obsolete....(that takes about 3 months these days).....that I feel I need to change them out for something better.

 

In my web travels I've seen a few i3 processors available in different machines offered. Are these not worth considering as well? Or just not worth it due to great inferiority to the i5?

 

ZZ.

Edited by zoomzoom

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Windows 8....Have you tried this OS?

 

I only ask as some people detest it's user interface.

Edited by MudWasp48

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No, I know nothing regarding this....that's why I'm asking you guys!! lol.  So I take it you don't recommend Win-8. What alternatives would you advise?

 

Also, what is your take on the following?

 

http://www.ibuypower.com/Store/Gamer_Paladin_D837

 

....also regarding the above, I may be able to get the NVidia gtx650 upgraded to "ti" for free, and I can also opt for Windows 7 instead of 8 if you guys think that's better. 

 

Thanks!

 

ZZ.

Edited by zoomzoom

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You've lots of options to choose from there.

 

I've only used 8 on daughter's laptop for a 1/2 hour or so. I thought the interface was better suited to a fancy phone or tablet device. No clue as to which would run OFF better. You might want to try 8 on a friend or relative's computer, or even at a computer store before deciding. I didn't know 7 was still being sold on PCs, so it's good you have a choice.

 

 

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What OS are you running now?

 

8 has it's fans and it's haters.

 

Anyone here running OFF on 8?

 

This is interesting, windows is getting ready to release 8.1 and it will add back in the start menu.

 

 

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-1-the-return-of-the-start-button-7000016535/

 

Edited by MudWasp48

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Yeah the i5's a nice jump over the entry-level i3s. You need good single-threaded CPU performance for OFF, so this will make a very noticeable difference.

 

I can't stand Windows 8 but there are software programs to bring some features like the start menu back. If I hit the Windows key to type and do a search, nothing could be more obnoxious than a "start screen" popping up and obscuring everything on both my monitors, including the stuff I was looking at while I want to type.

 

Nice, go for the GTX 650Ti upgrade, and also make sure you get a better power supply (650Ti requires at least 400 Watts). The 430 Watt Corsair CX430 V2 would be perfect for you.

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ZZ, if you decided on windows 7, take note of the version.

 

They have different usable max ram limits. For 64 bit they are;

 

7 home basic        8GB

7 home premium  16GG

7 pro                     192 GB

7 ultimate              192 GB

 

All 32 bit windows 7 has a max of 4GB, except for starter which is 2 GB.

 

 

I'd go with the 650 watt NZXT for $12 more than the Corsair 430 watt.

Edited by MudWasp48

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Nah I'm happy with Win7, but a buddy with Win8 uses one of those 3rd party start menus happily.

 

Win7 home premium should be fine for you, zoomzoom, as none of the motherboards in your price range support adding much more RAM. But yes, make sure you get 64-bit, either 7 or 8.

 

The 650watt power supply probably's not worth the extra $12 unless you plan to add several additional hard drives / SSDs and/or multiple graphics cards in the future. Nice to have the overhead to expand, I suppose.

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Yeah Lothar, windows 8 isn't for me either. Those "charms" and hidden hotspots for them had me cursing.I can see where it may be great for a fancy phone or tablet devise, just not my pick for a PC.

I'd still go with more wattage for the future, cause you never know how long ZZ will use the machine and what additional hardware he may want and what wattage that hardware will require.

 

ZZ, which motherboard are you going with?

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It looks like the one listed in the specs I was reviewing at I-Buypower was a Intel Core i5-4670K  (4x 3.40GHZ/6MB L3 Cache). It seems an i5 is a good choice with potentIal expandability. I am taking Lothar's advice to heart and biding my time a while to see if prices shift, and in the meantime, amassing all of the info needed to pounce whent the time presents itself.

 

As far as the OS being Win 7 or 8, I'm still deciding. I'm familiar with 7, but unfortunately things don't reverse, and 8 and onward is the way things ae heading. So perhaps I just need suck it up and get used to it. I need to find a friend who has it though and check it out.

 

ZZ.

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Woops, Mudwasp I realize what the Motherboard Specs were. I'm choosing between two:

MSI z87 G43   and the Gigabyte GA-z87-HD#. I', leaning towards the MSI. What do you guys think?

 

As I currently watch the market in the hopes perhaps the graphics card prices will drop I ran across two other items that were curious to me.

 

1. What is "Internal USB Expansion" and do I need it?

2. What is a "Data hard drive" and do I need this?

 

If the system will be happy without 1 and 2, it stands as follows, but I'm still looking for ways to reduce this price somewhat.

 

Case1 x NZXT Source 210 Gaming Case-Blue
Case Lighting0 x None-
iBUYPOWER Labs - Noise Reduction0 x None-
iBUYPOWER Labs - Internal Expansion0 x None-
Processor1 x Intel® Core™ i5-4670K Processor (4x 3.40GHz/6MB L3 Cache)-Intel Core™ i5-4670K
iBUYPOWER PowerDrive0 x None-
Processor Cooling1 x Liquid CPU Cooling System [intel]-Standard 120mm Fan *FREE Upgrade to Corsair H55 Liquid Cooling*
Memory1 x 8 GB [4 GB X2] DDR3-1600 Memory Module-Corsair or Major Brand
Video Card1 x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 - 2GB -FREE Upgrade to NVIDIA GTX650 Ti-
Motherboard1 x MSI Z87 G43 -- 2x PCIe 3.0 x16, 2x USB 3.0, HDMI-
Intel Smart Response Technology0 x None-
Power Supply1 x 430 Watt - Corsair CX430 V2-
Primary Hard Drive1 x 1 TB HARD DRIVE -- 32M Cache, 7200 RPM, 6.0Gb/s-Single Drive
Data Hard Drive0 x None-
Optical Drive1 x 24X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive-Black
2nd Optical Drive0 x None-
Flash Media Reader / Writer1 x 12-In-1 Internal Flash Media Card Reader/Writer-Black
Meter Display0 x None-
Sound Card1 x 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard-
Network Card1 x Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100)-
Operating System1Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium + Office Starter 2010 (Includes basic versions of Word and Excel) 64-Bit

Monitor0 x None-
2nd Monitor0 x None-
Speaker System0 x None-
Video Camera0 x None-
Case Engraving Service0 x None-
Warranty1 x 3 Year Standard Warranty Service-
Rush Service1 x Rush Service Fee (not shipping fee)-No Rush Service, Estimate Ship Out in 5~10 Business Days
Subtotal*$855.00 (plus tax & shipping)

Edited by zoomzoom

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Yeah, you need a data hard drive.

 

Might want to google the motherboards and read reviews of users.

 

How many usb slots come with the computer and how many you need would be what to consider about the usb expansion. It adds more usb slots

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