F-5E_72 beta test FM 0.95

[+baffmeister 1,205]

F-5E_72 beta test FM attached. As always, it's "Buyer Beware" with these things. I had good aircraft data to work with but there was still lots of conjecture and reverse engineering to get what I wanted. It isn't Hi-Fi but hopefully fits in with the ThirdWire airplanes in an adequate fashion.

 

This FM is for Centurions' package that you can get here: http://combatace.com/files/file/15116-f-5e-early-versions-pack/ 

 

This model/cockpit combo is quite hard on frame rates. I find I can only run it well on simpler terrains and with not too many planes in the air but if you have the horsepower it's well worth a look. The cockpit, adapted from Sophocles' unreleased [so far] F-5A project is really impressive!

 

When I started looking into this airplane the performance was not what I was expecting so here are a few more details.

 

The maximum sustained G, with about 50% fuel is around 7G and occurs at 550kts at sea level, flaps up. Maximum sustained G with combat flaps is a bit less than 7G and occurs around 500 kts. Still quite fast. An interesting comparison is the Mirage F-1 that with 50% fuel, a lower thrust to weight ratio, and a higher wing loading, can do 7G sustained at 450 kts at sea level. That's with slats only and no flap extension. It's just something to keep in mind if you get dragged into a low speed turn and burn. The induced drag is quite high and below about 300kts the acceleration can be quite poor; more so if you don't retract the flaps and unload some G. What the F-5E does have is a good roll rate, very good departure resistance with combat flaps extended, and good pointing ability at low speeds.

 

Some issues:

 

The flaps are set to manual with blow back but only the two combat positions are modeled: Flap 1 = 12degs slats, 8degs flaps and can be used up to 550kts. Flap 2 = 18degs slats, 16degs flaps and can be used up to 250kts. There was also a landing/take off setting and a cruise setting. [really, more of a loiter setting]. I set the take off flap setting in the data ini to 2 but for some reason the game will only assign the flap 1 setting for the player aircraft. The take off performance is much improved with the flap 2 setting so try to remember to extend them manually prior to take off. Another issue:  with manual settings the AI won't make use of the flaps during combat so I increased the corner speed from 370kts to 400kts to help them out a bit. I think later versions of the F-5E had a more automatic flap set up but I haven't checked into it yet.

 

I have some park animations set up in the data ini but the canopy model doesn't have a hinge point and looks like it's floating in thin air. Also, to get the ladder and remove before flight flags JPEG to work, I had to move the F-5FMisc JPEG from the main aircraft folder to the skin folder I was using. The canopy can be worked manually using shift 0, and the ladder and flags can be deployed with shift 9.

 

I can't get the drag chute to work properly! The settings in use usually work but not with this airplane. If you want to see it in action, scroll down to the Airbrakes section and disable the DeployWhenOnGears=TRUE entry. The drag chute will now work with the airbrakes at speeds below 180kts. This may cause issues with the AI. If anybody gets it to work properly, please post the required edits!

 

Cockpit notes:

 

There is a revised cockpit ini with a few edits. The angle of attack indicator has been set up to reflect the very arbitrary Northrop "units". From web research, 0 units on the indicator is -9.76deg AOA and the maximum 30 units is 33.44deg AOA. However, the gauge is positioned quite low on the panel so you probably won't be looking at it anyway.

 

Some adjustments have been made to the "Hud" AOA indexer. It works quite well on approach but I find the visibility over the nose less than I like so usually do the final approach a bit fast and slow down on short final.

 

The internal fuel gauges have been set up but they don't reflect the actual aircraft. The gauge is a dual needle type and on the real aircraft one tank would feed one engine and the other tank the other engine. The tanks had different capacities so at some point an automatic balancing system would activate. To get the gauge to work I had to set the tanks to feed in sequence. The rear tank [2500lbs approx] feeds first. When it's empty the front tank [2000lbs approx] will start feeding.

 

Anyway, enough blah blah, here's the FM:  F-5E_72files0.95.zip

 

 

[+Coupi 4,402]

Hello,

 

I go to test you FM!

 

Many thanks,

 

Coupi.

[+Coupi 4,402]

Hello Baffmeister,

 

I play with your new FM and I like it!

 

Just a question,

 

Do you think we could use "accurately" your F-5E FM data (several figures) with the current F-5A mod ?

 

Best regards,

 

Coupi.

[+baffmeister 1,205]

Nope! F-5A is quite different. I have done a bit of research on the F-5A and the flap/slat setup is quite different even considering the NF-5. Also, the lift and AOA range is considerably reduced with the F-5A as well. I have started trying to "back out" an F-5A FM from the early F-5E but it will probably take some time. Also, I want to fine tune the present F-5E FM a bit more. At some point I will probably port the F-5E FM over to the early and late package Paulo put together, which uses the original TMF lods and cockpit. It's easier on frame rates with multi-lod support and a simpler cockpit.

 

Probably worth mentioning, the later versions of the F-5E got a significant boost in lift from a bigger LERX and better high alpha behavior with the shark nose. In general, I think the early F-5E was a good match for the MiG-21 in most respects with some superiority below about 450 kts, and some inferiority in the boom and zoom department. 

 

If I release an F-5A FM it will probably be for Paulos' CF-5 package, the one I use the most.

 

Something else to keep in mind: Even with the simplified approach I use for FMs, some of them are taking a long time. I was tinkering with the F-5E for over a year before getting something I was happy with. Also, they are never finished[!],  which is one reason why I like to upload them as beta testers. Cheers!

Edited March 10, 2016 by baffmeister

[+Coupi 4,402]

Ok I understand ! Many thanks!!! 

[+baffmeister 1,205]

Revised FM for the F-5E 72 and a new FM for the F-5E 74L attached. I'm quite happy with these so they probably won't get any more updates for quite some time.

 

Changes:

 

Type specific FM for the 74L now included. Centurions' original pack used the same FM for both types but I found one source claiming the large fillet on the V-stab improved directional stability so I have added some for the 74L. Most sources just describe the fillet as an ADF antenna fairing. The 74L gets a new ini as well to accommodate the name change to the data.ini.

 

Some over performance in the mach 0.90 to 1.1 range has been reduced. [ it's a ThirdWire thing.]

 

Some adjustments on the leading and trailing edge flaps.

 

Alpha range expanded a bit.

 

I added in some entries for chaff/flare dispensers but the number of chaff and flares is set to zero. From photos and from looking at the original TMF model it would seem the decoy dispenser is an external installation but thought I would add some in for use at players discretion. The entry is in the weapon station section if you want to add chaffs/flares.

 

Cockpit ini is included as a convenience for new downloaders, but it's unchanged from the previous package.

 

Here they are:  F-5E72-74L-0.96.zip

 

I started working on a CF-5 FM that's going quite well. Might have a beta tester ready in a couple of weeks. Still have to look into the F-5E "Shark Nose" with the larger LERX.

 

 

[+baffmeister 1,205]

Here is a suggested edit for the F-5E 72 and 74L. I missed this when adjusting the horizontal stabilizers during the previous work. It reduces the max attainable "G" a bit but I'm still getting over 7G when supersonic at sea level and over 10G between mach 0.7 and 0.8 at sea level. Some "over G" capability is nice to have against the TW planes. [ it's all relative, right?] The edit improves the pitch response by making it less sensitive.

 

[LeftStab]

[RightStab]

CLmax=0.0945//0.1423