3D Modelling - Maybe time to start it

[Olham 164]

Hauksbee, I guess you'll read this.
I have finally come to the decision, that I would like to try to build at least
some buildings for historical airfields in WOFF.

I'd love to do the Chateau at Roucourt, so the whole airfield could be made.
There are tutorials in YOUTUBE, which may be useful.

Could you guide me to the free GMAX download site, Hauksbee?
And would you like to make a collaboration of such projects still?

Shredward had asked in the other forum, if anyone would build Chateaus
and other landmarks for WOFF. Perhaps something for you?

 

[Hauksbee 103]

Could you guide me to the free GMAX download site, Hauksbee?  And would you like to make a collaboration of such projects still?

Congratulations on taking the plunge. And 'yes', I would love to collaborate on a project.

 

When I have no one to work with, I go into long non-motivated slumps where it's almost impossible to get to work. I still have Boistrancourt to finish for Lou, and this could help me get back to work.

 

First: go to Sim Out-House and open an account. This is the place to go when you have questions (and you will), and when you have questions I can't answer (which there certainly will be). Here is the Forum URL for the CFS3 modelers:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/forumdisplay.php?22-Aircraft-Design-amp-Animation

 

Second: Go here (which is a tutorial page) but what you'll want first is to download the CFS3 SDK (Software Dev. Kit) Initially, G-max will only export a model as a Plasma 3d file. CFS3 only reads .m3d format. The SDK modifies G-max so it can offer the .m3d format.

http://www.sim-outhouse.net/tut/fs9/c162/

 

Now: Getting G-max. It's available from both TurboSquid and Sim Out-House, but I just tried both and can't find it. And then while I was writing this I had a second idea, did a different kind of search. Go here:  http://www.turbosquid.com/gmax This is the download page. 'Don't know why it didn't show up when I did the first Turbosquid search.

 

Go to amazon.com and look under 'Books' and get a used copy of "The G-Max Bible". It will be cheap; probably only a few pfennigs. Mine certainly was.

 

When you get G-max running, let me know and we can get to work.

 

You will recall the drawing you sent me on chateau proportions? I have several photos of the chateau at Boistrancourt. I took one into Photoshop and corrected it so all the verticals and horizontals are in true 90 deg. Then I superimposed the photo over your drawing. It was a nearly perfect match. That drawing ( I suspect) will be a great help on your model.

[Olham 164]

Congratulations on taking the plunge. And 'yes', I would love to collaborate on a project.

 

Great! I am also rather sluggish, when left alone with tricky stuff.

 

 

 

When you get G-max running, let me know and we can get to work.

Okay, will do - I'll make a search for that book too.

 

 

 

It was a nearly perfect match. That drawing ( I suspect) will be a great help on your model.

Will you continue building the Chateau? Which one is there in Lou's field now? Just a substitute?

 

I hope buildings will be easy to start with.

Can they later get scaled down or up? Or how does one know the correct size?

[Hauksbee 103]

Will you continue building the Chateau? Which one is there in Lou's field now? Just a substitute?

I hope buildings will be easy to start with. Can they later get scaled down or up? Or how does one know the correct size?

I checked amazon.com for G-Max Bibles. It seems the price has gone up. ( now $16.00+ for a used copy) As I recall, mine was less than 10 cents. (plus $3.75 postage)

 

Here's the URL: http://www.amazon.com/gmax-Bible-Kelly-L-Murdock/dp/0764537571/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456769727&sr=1-1&keywords=The+gmax+Bible

 

Yes, I will continue building the Chateau. I'm pretty sure there's one at Boistrancourt now. (I haven't flown out of there in quite a while now) Lou told me that he constructed Boistrancourt by duplicating buildings already in the WOFF Scenery libraries.

 

Buildings are very easy to make. Most every building is just a series of cubes patched together. The model can be built at any size and scaled up and down. After you export the model into the game, its size cannot be changed. You have to go back to the original G-Max document, alter the size there, then re-export it. There is a way to set scale in G-Max. First, you go to Preferences and specify meters. CSF3 wants everything in meters. Then there's a way to specify that each square on the grid in each modeling window equals 1 meter. I'm still a bit hazy of that. SOH told me, but was a bit unclear. I'll go back to my last posting and review their reply.

 

Here's the historical Chateau at Boistrancourt, and your chateau drawing superimposed upon it.

 

Edited February 29, 2016 by Hauksbee

[Olham 164]

Hmmm... I had hoped to find a German book, but all I found was said to be crapp.

 

Did you ever work with the program BLENDER ?

Then there's a way to specify that each square on the grid in each modeling window equals 1 meter.

 

Ah, that sounds good for a start.

[Hauksbee 103]

Hmmm... I had hoped to find a German book, but all I found was said to be crapp. Did you ever work with the program BLENDER ?

OK, I guess you can forget about the book. With YouTube, and Sim Out-House and me, you can get all your questions answered. I always found those big, fat, bibles frustrating anyway. They are always packed with information that can answer any question except the one that has me baffled at the moment.

 

I did work with Blender for a while, but it must have been 10 years ago, or so. It's an 'open architecture' program like Linux; anyone who can write code can modify it as they see fit. Like SoftImage, Maya and 3D StudioMax, it has a steep learning curve. And because it changes so often as new capabilities are written for it, there's no authoritative manual published for it, or, not when I tried it. That may have changed by now, but it still would be a tough program for a beginner.

 

Have you joined Sim Out-House yet?

[Olham 164]

Have you joined Sim Out-House yet?

 

Yes, quite some time ago. Not sure though, if I find the password again.

Right now, I am busy with changing the rivers in WOFF.

I want them to be at least much brighter, so that they are well visible and can be used for navigation.

 

Even better, if I should manage to get the same waves and shine effects as the lakes and the sea.

I wrote to Pol about it.

 

Then I will also help Robert _Wiggins with terrain tiles for a historical Roucourt.

Only then, I want to try to build Roucourt castle-

[Hauksbee 103]

Sounds like you've got a lot ahead of you. Keep me posted.

 

'Found this picture of a chateau at Roucourt, France. Is this what you want to build? If so, it will be a very simple model.

.

[Olham 164]

Yes, this is the front of the Chateau. Not sure if the attic windows will be so easy?

[Hauksbee 103]

Yes, this is the front of the Chateau. Not sure if the attic windows will be so easy?

Piece o' cake. I'll walk you through it.

[Olham 164]

Haha - you don't know how stupid I can be, Hauksbee!

But thank you! I will get at it, when I have done the WOFF rivers.

Here is, what I have done so far (for "Summer" - the other seasons are yet to be done).

I wanted rivers which are more shiny - the rivers are mirrors of the sky IMHO.

And then one can find them more easily, and use them for navigation.

 

How do you like it? (Old rivers are left; mine are right).

 

Edited March 3, 2016 by Olham

[Hauksbee 103]

'Love the rivers. I never got down too close to any river in my flying, and when seen from altitude, I could never understand why the rivers had a white border on each bank. It always looked like pollution; a white, foaming, sudsy deposit from a chemical plant upstream. With your changes, I see the effect of shallow water near shore. Much more realistic. Well done.

 

Where I see rocks along the shoreline, is that just a texture applied, or is there a bump map too?

.

[Olham 164]

 Much more realistic. Well done.

 

Where I see rocks along the shoreline, is that just a texture applied, or is there a bump map too?

 

Thank you, Hauksbee - the rivers will be available as a "Mod" soon.

 

The rivers are made up from 13 square images, Here is one example:

 

[Olham 164]

Hauksbee, I am about to give the 3D modelling a try next week.

I found great vodeos showing quick work, looking like a cakewalk.

But I doubt it is so easy - it is just knowing where all the tools, key commands etc. are to be found, I guess.

Are you still able to help or "walk me through" a bit here and there?

[Hauksbee 103]

Yes. Whenever you're ready.

[Olham 164]

Hey, that was a quick answer - did you sit behind a bush, lurking for me to appear?

 

I will invite Robert_Wiggins aka rjw - he also started some modelling recently.

Maybe we could work on things together?

Edited May 1, 2016 by Olham

[rjw 48]

Hauksbee;

 

I have a question for you regarding GMAX. I am currently using SketchUP for modeling and then importing into GMAX for final rendering. That said, I have an issue with poly count (Who doesn't!!).

I have a model of a tree which has high poly on the components (trunk and several leaf layers). I would like to lower the poly count globally on each layer instead of having to redraw each leaf and trunk part.

Have you had any experience in this kind of thing or know if there is a GMAX feature to do this? 

 

I really need to start creating low poly trees and so far have been experimenting with imported models but I need to find a way to propagate leaves quickly without having to draw each individually. Even copy and past of each leaf would be time consuming.

 

If you have any experience with making trees I would appreciate some pointers in these specific areas.

 

I am currently working with Lou and Olham on Boistrancourt and Roucourt. We have made fairly good progress with Roucourt but need the Chateau and cathedral built. We currently have a substitute WOFF cathedral which is far too big. I would also like to replace the stock WOFF trees which are rather poor when rendered in comparison to those auto generated in the sim. I sure would like to have access to the auto generated models.

 

Best Regards;

Edited May 1, 2016 by rjw

[Burning Beard 14]

I think that white stuff on the rivers looks like it is an import from the coast lines (most likely a bad decision).

 

As far as Blender goes, there is a new one out in the last year, but it is a steep learning curve for even a graphic geek like myself (thank God I can still run a brush).  I'm really not sure how you go about export/import the file type you need, but I haven't really looked at that.

 

This game really makes you want to play with that sort of thing.  Making buildings seems to be the place to start to make the game even more immersive.

 

Beard

Edited May 2, 2016 by Burning Beard

[Hauksbee 103]

(1) Hey, that was a quick answer - did you sit behind a bush, lurking for me to appear?

(2) I will invite Robert_Wiggins aka rjw - he also started some modelling recently. Maybe we could work on things together?

(1) Short answer: "Yes". (1a) Slightly longer answer: Being a retired Olde Fart, I spend a lot of time in front of the computer monitor. As a result, I check in here about four or five times a day just to see if anything new has been posted.

 

 

I have a model of a tree which has high poly on the components (trunk and several leaf layers). I would like to lower the poly count globally on each layer instead of having to redraw each leaf and trunk part. Have you had any experience in this kind of thing or know if there is a GMAX feature to do this?

 

You have touched on the all-time-great ball-buster polygon problem. Regrettably, I have never built a tree. But I have thought about it a good deal. (While writing this reply, I thought I'd test one of my theories.) This tree, built in 3D StudioMax is made from 10 cylinders. Each has 6 sides and 5 divisions along the length, or, 30 vertices each. By converting to 'editable mesh' I made each taper. Then I arranged them as trunk and branches. The leaves are Spheres (9 segments with the bottom half sliced off) then re-sized and stacked. To finish off, in Photoshop, make a circular texture map from real leaf photos. Make the leaves point away from the center and stop shy of the edge. Then make a Transparency Map to make rest of the sphere edge go away. Using a Spherical Mapping, map the leaves to the hemisphere. You should get a ragged edge. Make a Bump Map to give the leaves a dimensional texture. I didn't have time to do all that, but the theory is sound. (this tree took about 30 minutes) Map a wood bark texture to each cylinder. You can see that the joins of the branches are pretty sloppy, but that can be cured.

 

This tree has a total of 905 polygons. How does that compare, Robert, to what you've downloaded?

.

 

If you're making a small wooded area, or forest, only the trees near the edge need branches and trunk. The rest only need the leafy canopy.

 

Another technique that works at ground level is to map a real tree onto to a vertical plane. (4 vertices) Add a Transparency Map so the plane goes away and only the tree remains. Most animation programs have a way to tell an object "Always Face Camera" so you never see the edge when the camera POV changes. 'Don't know if you can do this with an air-born WOFF camera, but you could probably ask Pol. Might not work when viewed from an oblique in-the-air angle.

 

 

I think that white stuff on the rivers looks like it is an import from the coast lines (most likely a bad decision).

 

Burning beard: I suspected the same. That what I was seeing was a surf line. Pretty weird, having a river with a surf line on each bank. And yes, if you want to jump in to 3D modeling for WOFF, buildings are the best starting point.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Hauksbee

[Olham 164]

 (1) Short answer: "Yes". (2) Slightly longer answer: Being a retired Olde Fart, I spend a lot of time in front of the computer monitor. As a result, I check in here about four or five times a day just to see if anything new has been posted.

 

(1) Mmuahahahahaaa!!!

(2) Sounds very familiar to me, Hauksbee!

[Olham 164]

Tomorrow we have a bank holiday here - "Ascension Day" - and I hope I'll get started (if the weather isn't too nice).

 

Hauksbee -

- did you ever work with SketchUp? Said to be easier, and can be converted to GMax.

- can several "bodies" get merged together, or must all of the 3D form be formed out of one single body?

[Hauksbee 103]

Worked with SketchUp? No, but I've been very interested in it at times. But I've also had some other software in the queue to master first. I've watched a lot of tutorials on YouTube. 'Looks very interesting. (and, 'yes', it can be imported into G-Max.)

 

By all means, yes, things in G-max can be made out of many small things and grouped together to form larger objects. This is true of every modeling program.

[Olham 164]

... things in G-max can be made out of many small things and grouped together to form larger objects.

 

Even, if they are half within each other?

Like two spheres, which not just touch each other, but are partly moved into each other?

[Hauksbee 103]

Even, if they are half within each other?

Like two spheres, which not just touch each other, but are partly moved into each other?

Yes, even then.

 

You can build an object with parts that do (or don't) touch each other and when you incorporate this object in a larger scene, all the little bits remain in place. It's still one object. Or,

 

You can build an object with parts that do (or don't) touch each other, then "Select All" the bits and "Group" them. That means you can't accidentally move them until you "Ungroup".

[Olham 164]

Wow, that sounds promising - thank you, Hauksbee!