+pcpilot 181 Posted September 30, 2016 (edited) I have ran into an avionics dealer that just astounds me. I paid upfront and then he sent me an unfinished product. I explained the problems with it, sent pictures, and rightfully, he said he would send me a new one. 3 months passed before I finally demanded a refund. Then he starts to get nasty, even calling me a liar, I think because he claims nothing was wrong with the unit. That was august 18th and still no refund. The BBB hasn't been able to get a response from him and he actually threatened to sue me if I didnt take down the complaint, which I wont. I wont go into further detail but let me just point out a few things you should look for in an online dealer. 1st, Do they allow reviews on their website. His does but there isn't a single review, positive or negative. I wrote a negative review on his website and it was never posted. The one flight simulation website I saw with a negative review took it down the other day, I believe I know why. He has a number of youtube videos and not one has a negative review. I posted a negative comment about the item I bought and he took it down with in minutes of posting it and then texted threats of a lawsuit. There was also another BBB complaint where the guy came back later with an addendum and sounded like he essentially kissed this venders butt saying he has 100% positive reviews (!), I suspect I know why also. So look for those reviews. An honest dealer will take negative reviews as a means to improve his service and doesn't have anything to hide. 2. Are they accredited by the BBB. If not, look elsewhere, I don't care how much you want his product. The BBB cant force a business to pay you. But accredidation is a powerful selling tool. It means this business is willing to work with you to get any issues resolved. 3. Do they accept paypal or sell on Amazon. If not, pass on them. Paypal and Amazon at least offer arbitratrion in disputes with dealers. 4. Does your bank offer fraud protection from a vender that fails to deliver? Most banks will cover ID theft. But do they cover venders? And if you are threatened with a suit by an online dealer, know a few things. First, they usually have to sue you in your own state and most wont. Its like you probably wont go to his state to sue him. Second, if you do post a negative review of a vender, make sure it is nothing but the truth. Thruth in a libel or defamantion lawsuit is usually an absolute defence; your butt is covered. Thirdly, ALWAYS keep your receipts, emails, and texts with a vender until you KNOW everything is fine. Ive got all my rcpts., emails, etc. and actually hope this so-called vender will sue. In the meantime, its been 6 weeks since he promised a refund and nothing yet. I have those texts too. I know I haven't posted in awhile. But I have always considered CA to be my online home. I don't want my pals to be taken in and felt compelled to warn you about these issues we face online. Edited October 3, 2016 by pcpilot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Erik 1,733 Posted September 30, 2016 This is more common than you think. It wasn't long ago a guy over at another aviation simulation site took a group of people for thousands each. My memory of what I read was that this computer expert promised a group of people he'd build them a custom tuned, personal gaming machine with all the latest and greatest hardware for a fraction of the retail price. He claimed he didn't mark up hardware just charged a flat fee of $100 to build a machine which he claimed explained his pricing. Because he was so incredibly busy the only way to order a machine was to pay up front. Many did and many got burned with little to no recourse. This all happened because an online friend of all these people vouched for this computer guy. The computer guy did build a machine with all that money it just so happened it was for him. So in the end not only did these folks loose tons of money but they lost their personal enjoyment of a hobby and their friends. Like PC says the only way to do business online is to first know you have a valid recourse if something goes wrong. Use a credit card or account that has a zero fraud liability this is the best method. Then you can feel confident shopping online because all disputes error in your favor. This means the bank refunds you first then goes after their money through the merchant's payment processing vendor which they will in turn deduct their money right from the account they make deposits into (whether the money is there or not) before the seller even knows about it in most cases. Personally my second check is to find their physical address and phone number before I order anything. I then verify it by calling them and google mapping their business at street view to see if it's legitimate. Then I know if things get really bad I can use a local police department to report the incident and him before doing anything stupid. Spend your money wisely and good luck out there. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted October 3, 2016 A vendor with NO negative reviews should be a red flag. What you want to see is numerous reviews, mostly good, and the negatives should be the kind of stuff you see everywhere. "Damaged in shipping, took too long for refund" that type of thing. If I see one with a dozen reviews, half good, a quarter 50/50, and a quarter bad, and another one with only 3 reviews, all glowing, I'm going with the first one. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+pcpilot 181 Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Just so you know, you also have recourse with the Consumer protection agency from your state, the vender's state, and the feds. This is something to do before you sue or if you cant sue. While some agencies are unable to do more than take a complaint and record the issue you have with a vender, other agencies often work with law enforcement if they find something fishy with the vender. Also, most lawyers will give you a free initial consultation over the phone. This has helped me to clear up some questions I had. If your town has a law school, they mat also have a law library that is a good reference. You can also ask questions of the justice court clerk. They wont give you legal advice but will help you with procedural questions. Edited October 3, 2016 by pcpilot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
