Typhoid

"Perhaps you weren't aware, but the USAF was managing the overall air-to-air mission tasking. I don't think it's too far a stretch to think that F-15's got the lion's share of the kills becase they were the only ones providing CAPs in the likely engagement areas. " a point that I personallly heard confirmed by Gen Horner.

hadn't thought of that. I'll reload a WOV and take a look.

"To date, I don't think one battle has been lost or one mission has failed due to using a Super Hornet where a Tomcat would have." absolutely on target. The principle shortfall in the F-18E/F is in range/payload. That shortfall has been addressed by; 1. use of PGM 2. use of USAF Tankers The Super Hornet is doing just fine for us now. The other shortfall is the potential threat from an opponent equipped with advanced Flanker variants and modern air to air missiles. That is a very short list of potential opponents. It would be nice if would could field something equivelant to an F-22 in a carrier based aircraft. That need at the moment is a "potential" threat. As much as I did not like the decision at the time (and still don't), based on the financial constraints (particularly with the regime that followed) the decision by Darth Cheney and Bush the Elder was correct.

interesting email thread going around on a recent P-3 mishap. My comments are the last ones at the top of this thread. I've deleted the other identifying addresses. I hope the photos come through. This underscores the hazards of flight ops when one focuses on one item to the exclusion of other factors. There are quite a few indicators in this thread of things not going well these days in the P-3 world........... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- hmmm.... coming in doing a drill with one engine out and they have another engine "surge", so they shut down the bad one before bringing the perfectly good one (on the same side) back up while not watching their airspeed?!!!!! I've done enough FCF myself sitting between two T-56 engines (the same engine - but we mount ours right side up!) to know that was a significant "contributory factor" to this mishap. five rotations from 5500ft!!!! lucky they're still alive. Should be an interesting discussion at their FNAEB........! Subject: FW: Whidbey P-3 spin, 7G pullout An exciting story that I am most happy NOT to have witnessed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: FW: Whidbey P-3 spin, 7G pullout Surprising tale of USN P-3 Orion mishap (near crash!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The "borrowing" applies mainly to the P-3's. What the hell were they (not) thinking when they shut down #2 without first firewalling #1? Even dumb jet jocks understand that 2 dead engines on one wing is not a condition you want to find yourself in. Almost as scary is the statement that the Navy has so few airplanes that they don’t belong to the squadrons any more – they must be “borrowed†from the wing. “Dad, can I have the keys to old 161331 today? I promise I’ll drive with both hands on the wheel and no drag racing.†________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Last Tuesday, 22 Jul 2008, a P-3 Orion from VP-1 was flying an approach to NAS Whidbey Island with the #1 engine in a simulated failure mode. At 160 KIAS, the #2 engine started to surge, so they had to chop power to it. As all this was happening, they were still decelerating, so by the time they added power to #3 and #4, they were at 122 knots, and in the dry terms of investigators, "departed controlled flight". The P-3 did FIVE rotations in a flat spin, dropping 5500 feet, finally recovering between 50 and 200 feet AGL (above ground level), pulling a whopping 7 positive G's on the airframe after sustaining 2.4 negative G's in the spin. The rolling pullout burst 45 rivets on one wing, physically RIPPED the main spar, and bent the entire airframe... the crew could see INSIDE the fuel tanks of the wing. *********************** The P-3C that almost went into Puget Sound waters a few days ago was from NAS Whidbey. It was a CPW-10 aircraft being operated by VP-1. Squadrons don't own aircraft any more. The P-3 fleet has so deteriorated because of under-funding and over-use that there are less than 100 still flyable*. The P-3s belong to the wing and are "lent to the squadrons on an as-needed" basis. The mission was a NATOPS pilot check, with a CPW-10 pilot (LT) aboard, a VP-1 LT and LTJG, plus VP-1 aircrewmen that included two flight engineers. The word is that the crew finally recovered control of the aircraft about 100 feet above MSL by pulling 7 Gs. The bird was landed back at NASW. Max damage was sustained by the aircraft, including almost tearing off a wing. Aircraft BuNo 161331. At Whidbey, P-3C 161331 was doing a Functional Check Flight.� They could see the inside of the fuel tanks when they landed.� SDRS recorded the flaps being raised and the landing gear being cycled down and then back up. Aircraft released all the fuel in tank #3 when it appears that the seam between planks 3 and 4 split. Tank #4 also lost its fuel load when plank #1 separated from rest of the aircraft wing. P-3 Incident BUNO 161331 Class A Mishap! Take a look at this. Unbelievable that the crew survived. This is out of Whidbey I believe yesterday or the day before. Here is some of what has been passed from this event coming from reliable sources: There's a lot more to this mishap. 45 consecutive rivets were pulled out on the stbd wing during the 7 g pull out (rolling pull), after peaking at negative 2.4g's as well. They did five spin rotations from 5500 ft- - they bottomed out "between 50 and 200 ft"!! They could see the inside of the fuel tanks when they landed. I'll forward the pictures this evening. They were at 160 KIAS, appr flaps during a prop fails to feather drill on #1 when #2 started surging. They bagged #2, but while doing so got to 122 KIAS. When they added power, they were way below Vmcair, and departed. About a minute later, just before impact, they recovered. Source is from DC. talking with investigators in Whidbey. Subject: P-3 Incident BUNO 161331 I knew there was a reason I hated doing FCF's. Check this out... For your SA we had an P-3 Class A today (not a mishap but by the material condition of the aircraft they are calling it a class A). Here's the preliminary info I have: At Whidbey, BN 161331 was doing a FCF and shut down #1 engine, with #1 off, #2 engine exhibited vibrations and was shutdown. With two engines off on the same side the aircraft stalled and was recovered at 100 feet. 7 G's were reported to pull it out of the stall. The aircraft landed safely. Broken Wing Panel Seperation Mad Boom Buckle Wing Spar Broken

seems they've learned how to do productions from Hollywood...............................

I look at Alt-N as simulating tankers............

I think just about anyone who has ever flown for any length of time has at least one "there but for the grace of God" story. Thanks for that one. Brought back more than a few memories.

"(off to Cambrai, where a Camel is waiting)" what was it that The Baron said the other day? oh yea, "I'd walk a mile to smoke a Camel"

think of a new sim Wings over the Croplands with cropdusters!

you've got that right!! I've added some photos to the original post.

woe and had that with an F4F from the invisible airfield and a P40E from Midway. Havent' done a full checkout yet with other aircraft and haven't run the provided mission yet. I'll provide more details later. had a similar issue once with the EAW WWII Europe terrain when launching from the German carrier. Everything else works great and I never figured that one out either.

you raise a very good point. A FCF and a NATOPS check are two entirely different evolutions and while they certainly can be combined into a single flight - they are separate profiles and should not be done at the same time!!! I remember some pretty "interesting" FCF's including an uninteded dual engine out (think about what kind of plane I flew....), but this is one that rapidly escalated way out of control in the blink of an ey. you hit the bottom line - "It sounds like they sort of...forgot to fly"

invisible base is a cool idea! odd thing, when flying single missions the plane explodes as it takes off. any ideas? reseting the option to be airborne works fine so its not the cat file.

download the mission planner and instructions. It will tell you how to set one up.

"You sure you haven't been talking to that friend of mine?" I'm stuck in the purgatory of staff misery with an FAA Liason Officer to the NORAD HQ within earshot......... one of the tasks my team is working on is figuring this mess out. To say that the FAA and the DoD have differing views of the world has to rate as one of those classic understatements of all time. and I like to take the train now........... what is even more scary is reading of the airspace congestion over Iraq and Afghanistan with everyone and their cousin heaving a UAV into the air. It is a miracle we haven't had a jet suck a UAV down the intake. Although we have had a helo chop one up! (didn't do the helo any good!)

"although to say that the ethnic Russian part was installed by Stalin conflicts with my knowledge that it was in fact, the Georgian ethnic part that was instead encouraged by Stalin. "

no argument there. The interwoven political and ethnic divisions through all of the Caucasus region is bewildering and mind wrenching. The situation in the Mid-East is, by comparison, relatively simple. At the present time the Osettian region is split into North (within Russia) and South (within Georgia). South Osettia in relation to the "central government" in Georgia is a separatist region with regional autonomy but still under Georgian control. The Russian peacekeepers are there to safeguard the ethnic Russian population (installed by Stalin). So all of the ingredients are mixed for a very dangerous, volatile flashpoint where absolutely no one will win. This has been building for years and is but one of several regional conflicts, including another section of Georgia, that could easily erupt into war. My prayers for your family and their safety and for a peaceful resolution soon before this spins further out of control.

you win!!!!

usually whatever the latest plane is up for testing...... that tends to keep my limited time filled up pretty well. lately the F-14B, A-7E, RF-4C series, the Canadian package in all of its glory (outstanding!!) and the F-5 package. after that, I tend to stick to the tailhook planes (duh!) more than others but not exclusively. A-4 F-14A+ and D F-4 F-4 USAF and others F-8 A-7E Mig-29 SU-27 and in the WWII arena the F-4u, F4F, Zero and P-51 WWI I like the Spad

"I lost my wing during high speed maneuvers in WoI (!!!):P...of course I had heavy loadout but it still shouldn't happen....I read that navy gives usually "safe info" and on the air shows you can see that pilots takes 9g in super bugs during maneuvers... what is your knowledge about that guys??" mixing real life and sim here. the sim is accurate in putting that max g load on. However, in real life the aircrew also has to consider what he might be carrying. Your comment on the heavy loadout is the key and actually validates the sim. The NATOPS, or Dash-1 for the pale blue suit gents, will have a table with a graph that equates load and max g. In other words, you will have a different max g based on what you are hanging on the stations. I would venture to guess that you have not seen in any airshow, any aircraft loaded to the gills pulling 7-9 g's. At least more than once...........

"Oh my goodness. Are you as stupid as your lines indicated? The Russians as "bad guys"? Do you still life in the bunkiers of the cold war? Do you feel good there? Blockheads!! Do you have ever been in Kaukasus region?" Georgia is the aggressor against Russia, within Georgian territory, and the innocent Russian "peacekeepers" are merely defending Georgian territory from the Georgian military, within the internationally recognized borders of Georgia? no doubt all those airstrikes and SRBM launches are also defending the Georgian territory against those evil Georgian military forces operating within those internationally recognized borders of Georgia. If'n I was going to weigh in on this, I might at least spell the Caucasus correctly.........

C3PO turned loose in the airways with a Sidewinder........

a detailed account of the fight and the losses. ------------------------------------------------------ 9 Funerals for 9 Warriors > > I'm sure you heard about 9 soldiers being killed in Afghanistan a > couple of weeks ago. As AP reported it, it was a "setback", the "newly > established base" there was 'abandoned' by the Am ericans. That, of > course, was the extent of their coverage. > > Steve Mraz of Stars and Stripes and Jeff Emanuel tell the rest of the > story. Emanuel, who went out and dug into the story sets the enemy > force at 500 while AP sets it at 200. Frankly I'm much more inclined > to believe Emanuel than AP. > > July 13, 2008 was the date, and Jeff Emanuel, an independent combat > reporter sets the scene: > > Three days before the attack, 45 U.S. paratroopers from the 173d > Airborne [brigade Combat Team], accompanied by 25 Afghan soldiers, > made their way to Kunar province, a remote area in the northeastern > Afghanistan-Pakistan border area, and established the beginnings of a > small Combat Outpost (COP). Their movement into the area was noticed, > and their tiny numbers and incomplete fortifications were quickly > taken advantage of. > > A combined force of up to 500 Taliban and al Qaeda fighters quickly > moved into the nearby village of Wanat an d prepared for their assault > by evicting unallied residents and according to an anonymous senior > Afghan defense ministry official, "us[ing] their houses to attack us." > > Tribesmen in the town stayed behind "and helped the insurgents during > the fight," the provincial police chief, told The Associated Press. > Dug-in mortar firing positions were created, and with that indirect > fire, as well as heavy machine gun and RPG fire from fixed positions, > Taliban and al Qaeda fighters rushed the COP from three sides. > > As Emanuel notes, the odds were set. 500 vs. 70. Even so, Emanuel > entitled his article, "An Alamo With a Different Ending." The 500 > terrorists apparently didn't realize they were attacking US Army > paratroopers. > > The unit in question was 2nd Platoon, Company C, 2nd Battalion, 503rd > Infantry Regiment (Airborne), 173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team, led > by 1LT Jonathan Brostrom. > > The first RPG and machine gun fire came at dawn, strategically > striking the fo rward operating base's mortar pit. The insurgents next > sighted their RPGs on the tow truck inside the combat outpost, taking > it out. That was around 4:30 a.m. > > This was not a haphazard attack. The reportedly 500 insurgents fought > from several positions. They aimed to overrun the new base. The U.S. > soldiers > knew it and fought like hell. They knew their lives were on the line. > > The next target was the FOB's observation post, where nine soldiers > were positioned on a tiny hill about 50 to 75 meters from the base. Of > those nine, five died, and at least three others -- Spc. Tyler > Stafford among them -- were wounded. > > When the attack began, Stafford grabbed his M-240 machine gun off a > north-facing sandbag wall and moved it to an east-facing sandbag wall. > Moments later, RPGs struck the north-facing wall, knocking Stafford > out of the fighting position and wounding another soldier. > > Stafford thought he was on fire so he rolled around, regaining his > senses. > Nearby, Cpl . Gunnar Zwilling, who later died in the fight, had a > stunned look on his face. > > Immediately, a grenade exploded by Stafford, blowing him down to a > lower terrace at the observation post and knocking his helmet off. > Stafford put > his helmet back on and noticed how badly he was bleeding. > > Cpl. Matthew Phillips was close by, so Stafford called to him for > help. > Phillips was preparing to throw a grenade and shot a look at Stafford > that said, "Give me a second. I gotta go kill these guys first." > > This was only about 30 to 60 seconds into the attack. > > Kneeling behind a sandbag wall, Phillips pulled the grenade pin, but > just after he threw it an RPG exploded at his position. The tail of > the RPG smacked Stafford's helmet. The dust cleared. Phillips was > slumped over, his chest on his knees and his hands by his side. > Stafford called out to his buddy three or four times, but Phillips > never answered or moved. > > "When I saw Phillips die, I looked down and was bleeding pretty good, > that's probably the most scared I was at any point, "Stafford said. > "Then I > kinda had to calm myself down and be like, 'All right, I gotta go try > to do my job.'" > > The soldier from Parker, Colo., loaded his 9 mm handgun, crawled up to > their fighting position, stuck the pistol over the sandbags and fired. > > Stafford saw Zwilling's M-4 rifle nearby so he loaded it, put it on > top of the sandbag and fired. Another couple RPGs struck the sandbag > wall Stafford used as cover. Shrapnel pierced his hands. > > Stafford low-crawled to another fighting position where Cpl. Jason > Bogar, Sgt. Matthew Gobble and Sgt. Ryan Pitts were located. Stafford > told Pitts that the insurgents were within grenade-tossing range. That > got Pitts' > attention. > > With blood running down his face, Pitts threw a grenade and then > crawled to the position from where Stafford had just come. Pitts > started chucking more grenades. > > The firefight intensified. Bullets cut down tree limbs th at fell on > the soldiers. RPGs constantly exploded. > > Back at Stafford's position, so many bullets were coming in that the > soldiers could not poke their heads over their sandbag wall. Bogar > stuck an > M-249 machine gun above the wall and squeezed off rounds to keep fire > on the insurgents. In about five minutes, Bogar fired about 600 > rounds, causing the M-249 to seize up from heat. > > At another spot on the observation post, Cpl. Jonathan Ayers laid down > continuous fire from an M-240 machine gun, despite drawing small- arms > and RPG fire from the enemy. Ayers kept firing until he was shot and > killed. > Cpl. Pruitt Rainey radioed the FOB with a casualty report, calling for > help. Of the nine soldiers at the observation post, Ayers and Phillips > were dead, Zwilling was unaccounted for, and three were wounded. > Additionally, > several of the soldiers' machine guns couldn't fire because of damage. > And they needed more ammo. > > Rainey, Bogar and another soldier jumped out of their fi ghting > position with the third soldier of the group launching a > shoulder-fired missile. > > All this happened within the first 20 minutes of the fight. > > Platoon leader 1st Lt. Jonathan Brostrom and Cpl. Jason Hovater > arrived at the observation post to reinforce the soldiers. By that > time, the insurgents had breached the perimeter of the observation > post. > Gunfire rang > out, and Rainey shouted, "He's right behind the sandbag." Brostrom > could be heard shouting about the insurgent as well. > > More gunfire and grenade explosions ensued. Back in the fighting > position, Gobble fired a few quick rounds. Gobble then looked to where > the soldiers were fighting and told Stafford the soldiers were dead. > Of the nine soldiers who died in the battle, at least seven fell in > fighting at the observation post. > > The insurgents then started chucking rocks at Gobble and Stafford's > fighting position, hoping that the soldiers might think the rocks were > grenades, causing them to jump from t he safety of their fighting > hole. One rock hit a tree behind Stafford and landed directly between > his legs. He braced himself for an explosion. He then realized it was > a rock. > Stafford > didn't have a weapon, and Gobble was low on ammo. > > Gobble told Stafford they had to get back to the FOB. They didn't > realize that Pitts was still alive in another fighting position at the > observation post. Gobble and Stafford crawled out of their fighting > hole. Gobble looked again to where the soldiers had been fighting and > reconfirmed to Stafford that Brostrom, Rainey, Bogar and others were > dead. > > Gobble and Stafford low-crawled and ran back to the FOB. Coming into > the FOB, Stafford was asked by a sergeant what was going on at the > observation post. Stafford told him all the soldiers there were dead. > Stafford lay against a wall, and his fellow soldiers put a tourniquet > on him. > > From the OP, Pitts got on the radio and told his comrades he was > alone. > Volunteers were asked for to go to the OP. > > SSG Jesse Queck sums up the reaction to the call: "When you ask for > volunteers to run across an open field to a reinforced OP that almost > everybody is injured at, and everybody volunteers, it feels good. > There > were a lot of guys that made me proud, putting themselves and their > lives on the line so their buddies could have a chance." > > At least three soldiers went to the OP to rescue Pitts, but they > suffered wounds after encountering RPG and small-arms fire, but Pitts > survived the battle. > > At that time, air support arrived in the form of Apache helicopters, > A-10s and F-16s, performing bombing and strafing runs. > > The whole FOB was covered in dust and smoke, looking like something > out of an old Western movie. > > "I've never seen the enemy do anything like that," said Sgt. Jacob > Walker, who was medically evacuated off the FOB in one of the first > helicopters to arrive. "It's usually three RPGs, some sporadic fire > and then they're gone .... I don't wh ere they got all those RPGs. > That was crazy." > > Two hours after the first shots were fired, Stafford made his way -- > with help -- to the medevac helicopter that arrived. > > "It was some of the bravest stuff I've ever seen in my life, and I > will never see it again because those guys," Stafford said, then > paused. > "Normal > humans wouldn't do that. You're not supposed to do that -- getting up > and firing back when everything around you is popping and whizzing and > trees, branches coming down and sandbags exploding and RPGs coming in > over your head ... It was a fistfight then, and those guys held ' em > off." > > Stafford offered a guess as to why his fellow soldiers fought so hard. > > "Just hardcoreness I guess," he said. "Just guys kicking ass, > basically. > Just making sure that we look scary enough that you don't want to come > in and try to get us." > > Jeff Emanuel summed the fight up very well: > > "Perhaps the most important takeaway from that encounter, though, is t > he one that the mainstream media couldn't be bothered to pay attention > long enough to learn: that, not for the first time, a contingent of > American soldiers that was outnumbered by up to a twenty-to-one ratio > soundly and completely repulsed a complex, pre-planned assault by > those dedicated enough to their cause to kill themselves in its > pursuit. > > That kind of heroism and against-all-odds success is and has been a > hallmark of America's fighting men and women, and it is one that is > worthy of all attention we can possibly give it." > > Of the original 45 paratroopers, 15 were wounded and The Sky Soldiers > lost > 9 killed in action in the attack. They were: > > 1LT Jonathan Brostrom of Aiea, Hawaii SGT Israel Garcia of Long Beach, > California SPC Matthew Phillips of Jasper, Georgia SPC Pruitt Rainey > of Haw River, North Carolina SPC Jonathan Ayers of Snellville, Georgia > SPC Jason Bogar of Seattle, Washington SPC Sergio Abad of Morganfield, > Kentucky SPC Jason Hovater of Clinton, Tennessee SPC Gunnar Zwilling > of Florissant, Missouri > > Of the 9 that were lost, Sgt Walker says: > > "I just hope these guys' wives and their children understand how > courageous their husbands and dads were. They fought like warriors." > > They fought like warriors. > > Last week, there were 9 funerals in the United States. 9 warriors were > laid to rest. 9 warriors who had given their all for their country. > All proud members of a brotherhood that will carry on in their name. > They fought and died in what most would consider impossible > circumstances, and yet they succeeded. A nameless fight in a distant > war which, until you understand the facts, could be spun as a defeat. > It wasn't. And it is because of the pride, courage and fighting spirit > of this small unit that it was, in fact, a victory against > overwhelming odds. And there's little doubt, given that pride and > given that fighting spirit, that they'll be back to reestablish the > base, this time with quite a few more so ldiers just like the ones who > "kicked ass" the last time there.

the city council in Atlanta will be upset.......

you've got a terrain in work for this already?!!!! I take back (some) of what I said about you!!