BigRed

Given what they might have done or not done on the mission, you might have had it right afterall. Remember, I've been there:)

Just to add fuel to the story :) http://www.afa.org/magazine/jan1999/0199desertone.asp A few lines from the story: When Beckwith ruled out a parachute drop, helicopters became the best option for reaching Tehran, despite the doubts Beckwith and other Vietnam veterans had about their reliability. Navy RH-53D Sea Stallions, which were used as airborne minesweepers, were chosen because of their superior range and load-carrying capability and their ability to operate from an aircraft carrier. Even the Navy Sea Stallions could not fly from the Indian Ocean to Tehran without refueling. After testing and rejecting alternatives, the task force opted to use Air Force EC-130 Hercules transports rigged with temporary 18,000-gallon fuel bladders to refuel the helicopters on their way to Tehran. Because the RH-53s were Navy aircraft, the Pentagon assigned Navy pilots to fly them and added Marine copilots to provide experience with land assault missions. That combination soon proved unworkable, as many of the Navy's pilots were unable or unwilling to master the unfamiliar and difficult tasks of long-range, low-level flying over land, at night, using primitive night vision goggles. In December, most of the Navy pilots were replaced by Marines carefully selected for their experience in night and low-level flying. The mission ultimately had 16 pilots: 12 Marine, three Navy, and one Air Force. Selected to lead the helicopter element was Marine Lt. Col. Edward Seiffert, a veteran H-53 pilot who had flown long-range search-and-rescue missions in Vietnam and had considerable experience flying with night vision goggles. Beckwith described Seiffert as "a no-nonsense, humorless--some felt rigid--officer who wanted to get on with the job." Delta and the helicopter crews never developed the coordination and trust that are essential to high-stress, complex combat missions. Possibly, this was caused by the disjointed nature of the task force and its training. While the helicopter crews worked out of Yuma, Ariz., the members of Delta Force did most of their training in the woods of North Carolina. Other Army personnel were drilling in Europe. The Air Force crews that would take part in the mission trained in Florida or Guam, thousands of miles away in the Pacific. The audacious operation was code-named "Eagle Claw." The target date was April 24-25. Almost immediately, forces began to move to their jump-off points. By April 24, 44 aircraft were poised at six widely separated locations to perform or support the rescue mission. The RH-53s already were on Nimitz, where they had been stored with minimal care for months, but a frantic effort brought them up to what Seiffert and Navy officials insisted was top mechanical condition by launch day. Beckwith and Seiffert had agreed that they would need a minimum of six flyable helicopters at Desert One for the mission to continue. Beckwith had asked for 10 helos on the carrier to cover for possible malfunctions, but the Navy claimed they could not store more than eight on the hangar deck. Sometimes it takes a failure to learn a great lesson. I get to see the lessons everyday here at Hurlburt Field, FL home of Air Force Special Ops and I get to see the memorial to Desert One and the men of the operation every morning. Cheers Big Red

Maybe this will help: In early 2006, after an exercise involving just eight F-22s in Nevada in Nov. 2005, Lieutenant Colonel Jim Hecker, commander of the 27th Fighter Squadron (FS) at Langley AFB, Virginia, commented "We killed 33 F-15Cs and didn't suffer a single loss. They didn't see us at all."[33] In June 2006 during Exercise Northern Edge (Alaska's largest joint military training exercise), the F-22A achieved a 144-to-zero kill-to-loss ratio against F-15s, F-16s and F/A-18s simulating MiG-29 'Fulcrums', Su-30 'Flankers', and other current front line Russian aircraft, which outnumbered the F-22A 5 to 1 at times.[21][34] The small F-22 force of 12 aircraft generated 49% of the total kills for the exercise, and operated with an unprecedented reliability rate of 97%.[30] The F-22 is extremely difficult to defeat during dogfighting. At Red Flag 2007, RAAF Squadron Leader Stephen Chappell, F-15 exchange pilot in the 65th Aggressor Squadron, commented that "The [F-22] denies your ability to put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it through the canopy. It's the most frustrated I've ever been."[35] An F-16C pilot assigned to the 64th Aggressor Squadron gained the first-ever F-22 simulated kill in Red Flag, February 2007. [94th commander] Lt. Col. Dirk Smith told AFM.[36] It was later revealed that the F-22 pilot had not realized that the aggressor was still 'alive' and did not attack the aggressor aircraft. F-22---360 Degrees of Battlespace Awareness :) I know my AWACS Bros love that one!

To bad . Interesting idea though

Just makes you want to strap right in and fly ! so is this an add-on to WOE or a completely new sim using WOE?

I knew about some surface ships and subs carring "radar detectors" but hadnever heard of WWII planes carring the "detectors" only the first basic airborne intercept radar for night fighters. Here is a para from "World War 2 radars, The technology which revolutionized air and naval warfare" The first development was RADAR detectors. The basic types, carried mostly by bombers and submarines, could tell their operators if a RADAR was transmitting at them (and therefore could detect them) and could estimate if it was near or distant, by the power of the RADAR waves. The more advanced RADAR detectors were used to analyze everything possible about enemy radars, their power, radio wave frequency, pulse rate, pulse width, and other technical parameters from which engineers could learn a lot about the capabilities of enemy radars, and design "electronic warfare" counter-measures to use against them.

Yep that's a lot of work. The Israeli one load out just fine in the AI. Strange, strange this sim is :)

if someone would send me this file, I'd appreicate it. GroundObjectData.ini

Flying the MiddleEastWar V11 in SFG. Seems all the MiG-21s don't carry any A/A missiles. They only have a gun pod and drop tank. The Su-7s seem fine and are loaded with A/G bombs, etc. This happens when I fly for the israeli side. Now if I fly for the EAF, etc, I can load the A/A missiles up and it works fine. So, why doesn't the AI load them up? mig21_screen_shot.ppt

Distant picture of 86-269 Aggressor F-16 involved in this weeks accident. Notice the left wing. 269_in_AK.bmp

You are correct tailspin. I explained it wrong :)

B Brandy, In answer to 3: Warhawk was the name the United States Army Air Corps adopted for all models, making it the official name in the United States for all P-40s. British Commonwealth air forces gave the name Tomahawk to models equivalent to the P-40B and P-40C and the name Kittyhawk to models equivalent to the P-40D and all later variants. The P-40's lack of a two-stage supercharger made it inferior to Luftwaffe fighters in high altitude combat, and as such the P-40 was rarely used in operations in Northwest Europe. Between 1941 and 1944, however, the P-40 played a critical role with Allied air forces in five major theaters around the world: China, the Mediterranean Theater, the South East Asian Theater, the South West Pacific Area and in Eastern Europe. P-40s first saw service with the British Commonwealth squadrons of the Desert Air Force, in August 1941.[2] The P-40's poor performance at high altitudes was not as critical in North Africa and the Middle East, where its bomb load, armour and good range were beneficial. The Royal Air Force's No. 112 Squadron was the first to fly Tomahawks in North Africa. The squadron copied the "shark mouth" nose markings used by Luftwaffe Me 110 Zerstörer units. The logo was later used on P-40s by the Flying Tigers in China. and the question about the 109 inverted, the 109 had a fuel injected engine vice British and other countries which at that time still had gravity feed engines. so, a favorite tactic for the germans was to roll and dive and they wouldn't lose power whereas the spitfire and hurricane would initially lose power if they did that due to no gravity and hence a lose of fuel flow. needless to say, the Allies quickly learned the lesson. So the sim seems very accurate to me in that respect. Cheers

Check this site and see just how many T-38/F-5s are for sale...and this is just one dealer. http://www.globalplanesearch.com/view/all/AllMI.htm

If I ever get back to Tinker, we'll have to talk about that old soviet air defense system :) Again, all thanks for the words of wisdom on tweaks. Rightly so, I believe one would need to be selective on which soviet planes to tweak on the RWR mod as Wrench explained. However, look back and you'll find our planes in the 60's didn't have it either in many cases and didn't start getting it till planes were falling over NV. As a side note, some people didn't learn that lesson either. I can tell you that the Beligum F-16As that came to RF in the late 80s DID not have RWR. They normally played on the RED side and we (Aggressor GCI) were their RWR. That of course has all changed. Oh Wrench, reading one of you comments when I was doing the data and loadout tweaks the other evening concerning the F-4C and gun pod. They indeed did have it and mounted it on the centerline. The Air Guard was espically fond of it and use it very well in William Tell 84 (Portland Guard birds). That however was the SUU-23 pod? as I remember and the few they had in Vietnam and Thailand may well had been the SUU-16 pod? The Marines also liked it and mounted 3 on their F-4Bs (centerline and both outer wing points), on occassion for CAS. For some reason the Navy never did adopt the gun pod as far as I have read (maybe problems gettting it back on-board and catching the wire?). On the F-105 have the AIM-9 on the outer wing. Pilot pressure and mounting losses to those simple MiG-17s and 19s. They cetainly didn't want the THUD drivers dogfighting with those planes but if one flew out in front..well a kills a kill. basically it gave them a capability to shoot and not have to close to gun range. OK enough history :