PraetorH

The F-100 is actually what the German Luftwaffe wanted when it was planned to be rebuilt in 1954. However the US declined the export of the F-100 as it was considered too modern, so the Luftwaffe had to do with F-86 and F-84. But only a year later, just after the Luftwaffe was officially reborn in 1955, the US offered to export the F-100 because it was getting old. Ironically that was exactly the reason why the Luftwaffe had no interest in it anymore. The F-100 literally went from the hottest plane on earth to junk within less than two years, illustrating how quickly aircraft could age in this time.

Und, wird es die "L"? Wenn es sowas wie K für Karthum gibt, kann es auch die L für Luftwaffe geben (oder B für Bonn/Berlin). Eine Mirage IIIE als Basis für die Marine scheint mir auch die beste Lösung; solange die AS34 abgefeuert werden können, ist das kein Problem. Nur muss sich die arme Marine dann damit abfinden, dass ihre Flugzeuge ein L für Luftwaffe tragen.

I like the SNA camo on the Bucc!

Nice! Have you ever tried the white "camouflage" commonly associated with the Zero? Creates a nice contrast with the roundels, imo. Also, are there any technical changes compared to the vanilla Thunderchief?

That is unlikely considering the problems with the Starfighter were mostly created by the incompetence of the German military that time, rather than by the Starfighter itself (although some of its flight characteristics did not help). Any sufficiently sophisticated, supersonic single engined plane would have had these problems - well maybe the Crusader would have fared a little better as it had simpler avionics. As for air combat... I don't know, might be interesting to have duel between Starfighter and Crusader.

Good job! I am not much of a fan of masquerades, but the Skyhawk does look nice in Soviet navy colours. I would just pull the green a little higher, especially in the back going up to the tail.

That must have been daring Brits to venture into the Baltic. I wonder what the biggest missile is that the Forger can carry...?

Es ging zuerst um das Ergänzungskampfflugzeug zu Starfighter und Gina, aber so wirklich durchdacht scheint mir das zumindest in der Anfangsphase nicht gewesen zu sein. Später ging es dann um die Ablöse des Starfighter. Zur Wahl standen Lockheed Lancer, Northrop P-530 (= spätgere Hornet) und F-5, Mirage F1, Viggen und eben Jaguar. Das Ergebnis war die Beschaffung der F-4F, weil man schon RF-4E hatte und bekanntermaßen nur einen Lückenbüßer brauchte. Mit den Germains/peuples germaniques sind dann doch die Germanen gemeint, die die Franzosen ebenfalls als ihre Vorfahren sehen (Franken), nicht die heutigen Deutschen. Das fällt m.E. flach. Und teuton ist ja noch schlimmer! Brazilien hat übrigens das Kürzel BR bekommen, das ginge also auch für Deutschland "AL" oder gleich "RFA". Ist aber in der Tat alles nicht schön. "L" für Luftwaffe wäre frei, allerdings unüblich. Wenn ein deutscher Name wie "Sperber" kommt, müsste ihn schon Dassault vergeben, da die Bundeswehr selbst im Regelfall keine Namen vergibt. Die Namen Leopard und Jaguar für Kampffahrzeuge z.B. gehen auf den Hersteller zurück. Der kann und will nämlich auf der Reputation der deutschen Großkatzen des 2. WK aufbauen (Tiger, Panter); die Bundeswehr will das offiziell nicht und verweist immer darauf, dass der Name vom Hersteller stammt. Die Frage ist natürlich, inwiefern der alte Dassault dazu bereit wäre... Ich habe da meine Zweifel. Gerade wegen der Aufrüstmöglichkeiten würde ich eher die F1 weglassen. Die war wie gesagt mal als Starfighter-Ersatz gedacht, bzw. hätte die Rolle der Phantom übernommen - was beides nicht nötig ist, wenn man einfach die Mirage etwas aufpeppeln kann. Und deutsch aufgerüstete Mirages fände ich gar nicht übel! Wozu da noch die F1? Ich glaube auch nicht, dass sich FJS mit der Mirage 5 für die Jabos begnügt hätte. Deutschland hatte seinerzeit Kohle ohne Ende und war bereit, das alles in den neuen Jäger zu stecken. Außerdem wollte man High-Tech, das beste vom besten. Das mit den leichten Kampfgeschwadern und Gina kam erst später, Ende der 50er & Anfang der 60er. Dafür wäre die M5 eventuell brauchbar gewesen. Die Marine wollte einen überschallschnellen Jagdbomber, der die erwarteten Anti-Schiff-Raketen abfeuern sollte. Ich weiß nicht, ob das die Mirage 5 kann; wenn ja, wäre sie eine Option, obwohl ich davon ausgehen würde, dass auch hier eine Mirage III beschafft werden würde. Die nukleare Option sollte auch von der Marine wahrgenommen werden, sehr zu deren Verdruss. Interessant, wenn auch unrealistisch, ist die Option, dass sich die Marine mit ihren völlig anderen Vorstellungen durchsetzt und ein ganz anderes Muster wählt.

There was a bit of ramming, warning shots, and Polish politicians who wanted their navy to shoot E-German ships on sight. It is a bit hard to investigate the topic, because it was naturally kept under wraps. http://ddr-luftwaffe.blogspot.de/2008/03/ddr-gegen-vr-polen-zwischenflle-vor.html It is interesting to hear the talk about the "missed chance", but it does not really surprise me. Despite the dictated friendship there was a lot of animosity. I am not sure if the Soviets would have risked the political outcry caused by German troops marching into Poland 1981, like they forbit the NVA marching into the CSSR 1968, but in both cases the NVA was ready and - as far as I could gather - even eager to do so.

F-8G Crusader in Marineflieger-Service (as usual, suggestions are welcome!) What happened in Real Life When the Luftwaffe looked for new aircraft in the late 50ies, it soon became apparent that it would either choose the F-104 Starfighter favoured by the Luftwaffe staff, or the Mirage III favoured by the secretary of defence for political reasons. Both of them however were dedicated nuclear options, and the Marine feared the nuclear armament of the Starfighter (or the Mirage) would lead to a subordination of the Marineflieger under Luftwaffe command and demote them to a nuclear auxiliary role. Worse, the Marineflieger in this conception would not participate in the naval war proper as envisioned by the Marine. The Marine thus was more than unhappy when the Starfighter was chosen and given to their air wings. Non-nuclear options were explored, like the Italian G.91, but none of them materialized as the secretary of defence aimed for the standardization of all German fighters and fighter bombers. However the Marine successfully rejected the nuclear strike role of their Marineflieger. Enter the F-8G Crusader The Crusader was simpler than the F-104G while offering good performance, but it also had the stigma of being a carrier based aircraft with lots of dead weight when used from airfields on land. The Marine however had its long term plans for a small carrier battle group and thus the Crusader was a very good choice. In fact, as supersonic speed was the parole of the day, and the Marine did not want to stay behind the Luftwaffe in that regard, the Crusader was one of the few choices that could be made. When the French also picked the F-8 for their small carriers, the decision was made final. The Marine wanted only a few changes to the original F-8, identical to the French ones minus the need to carry indigenous or radar guided air to air missiles. Later on the F-8G Crusader was refitted to use AS.34 Kormorran anti-ship missiles. F-8G Crusader, MFG 1, 1976 (sporting Norm 76 naval aviation camouflage)

Gute Besserung und Danke für Alles!

... which is a huge advantage imo. Not having to check all my mods when a new patch arrives. Anyway, when I took a break from SF for various reasons and came back a few weeks ago, I found a still lively community, many new stuff to download, and something to do for myself. It looks pretty much alive to me. Maybe the time of glory is past now, but there is still enough to enjoy. Perhaps a moddable game does not depend as much on the developer as it does depend on the community.

Sure, but I think a what-if plane looks better in the actual camouflage of the nation's service of that time, preferrably with the correct stencils too.

Thanks for the input! I think it is quite fitting that the ship is named for a region rather than a city, since it is a huge ship, so it should have a bigger name so to speak. Naming such a giant (by the DDR’s standards) NEUBRANDENBURG would be odd imo. As for the political implications… you are right the Poles might get a bit itchy about it, on the other hand it is a historical region first and foremost, and it is not like the ship is named for Westpommern. Well still it is probably better naming the ship VORPOMMERN. Alternatively the ship could be a joint German-Polish ops. Despite a rather hostile relationship between the E-German and Polish navy (they came to exchange shots a few times), the Soviets in their Baltic command tried to integrate and merge both navies as much as possible.

Well, if you provide references I could see how difficult it is and what could be done... not promising anything, but an Argentinian Thud sounds interesting. Anyway I'd need to see the references first.

Funny enough, the Brits often build airplanes that look pretty Soviet imo... However, I would give it a Soviet naval aviation camouflage for full effect: http://dukmodell.de/images/product_images/popup_images/922_2.jpg The Bucc would look nice with the dark blue and green combination.

Actually I am working on the F-8 Crusader (at least I want to start one day...); I always wanted one with the Iron Cross. Suggestion on what a German Navy version should include are welcome. The Crusader seems to fit at least the navy even in the basic config. But I have some older stuff nonetheless:

Thanks! The Harrier-model is the stock Harrier from SF2 Europe. Maybe I will release the Sea Harrier GN1 later on; atm I have little time (and inclination) to go for bug hunting and polishing which is necessary for a release. But maybe later - together with my other Marineflieger aircraft. As for the name, I think I am decided http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Rudolf_Brommy Being a democratic state, naming ships after monarchs is a little difficult, same goes for names of WWII (with very few exceptions). Canaris is an interesting choice though, albeit a controversial one. However, Brommy as commander of the first German navy - the navy of a democratically elected government even! - seems like a perfect choice. Sadly Germany does not name her warships after historical characters anymore. (The Lütjens-Klasse was an exception in that and the names chosen were subject to a lot controversy).

(inspired by ValAstur's later Harrier model for the German Navy, I decided to make a predecessor) Sea Harrier GN1 Built for the Germany Navy in 1977, this version of this Harrier has stronger engine, Mauser BK 27 guns, and other specializations requested by the Marine. It marked the first step for a German carrier battle group, which was expected to enter service by the end of the 70ies. The Sea Harrier GN1 was thus intended as multi-role aircraft and could be armed with a variety of weapons, although the only guided AG weapons were ASMs. Absolutely in line with the Luftwaffe, the Marine also skipped BVR combat capabilities ... at least in the first batches. PS: What name would the German carrier get? HINDENBURG is not really possible; I am thinking about PLÜSCHOW, named after a pioneer of German naval aviation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunther_Pl%C3%BCschow 2. Staffel/ Marinefliegergeschwader 2 (the sidewinder is a bit too modern on the screenshot...)

Neither did I. But I hope he does.

Scheint wohl doch noch was zu geben, aber die Info ist ziemlich kryptisch: http://combatace.com/topic/83430-news-from-thirdwire-remember-them/?do=findComment&comment=670510

I am not sure if that is good news ("working on new PC games") or bad news ("happier working on mobile games"). I personally would not mind a small game, whatever that means, as long as it can be modded.

Just another quick and dirty, before I advance to my next project. The INS Vikramaditya is a modified Kiev-Class carrier, and in fact the Indian navy operates Harrier jump jets. So it seems only logical to think about this: YAK-38, INAS 300 "White Tigers"

Der Thread ist zwar schon älter, aber ja - das geht! Zwar nicht so, wie auf dem Bild, das ist nämlich nur ein Witz der Bodencrew gewesen, aber es war möglich R-60 an die Hind zu montieren an den Pylonen unter den Flügeln. Es sollen sogar einige Einheiten der GSSD damit ausgerüstet gewesen sein. (Yefim Gordon, Dmitriy Komissarov: Mil Mi-24 Hind attack helicopter, 2001, S.17) Und so sieht das aus: Die Iglas sind m.E. eine wesentlich spätere Entwicklung, die auch eher Werbezwecken dienen dürfte. Denn anders als im Dritten Weltkrieg sind heutzutage kaum Heli vs Heli-Kämpfe zu erwarten. Im Kalten Krieg allerdings hatten fast alle größeren Nationen Hubschrauber mit LL-Bewaffnung, auch Deutschland übrigens: Es sollte eine Bo-105 BSH (Begleitschutzhubschrauber) geben, die vier Stinger mitführte, und der Tiger war von Anfang an mit Stingern konzipiert. Man hatte auf westlicher Seite einige Angst vor den Hind-Massen, während man im Osten nicht gerade begeistert über die Kampfhubschrauber war... Es gibt sogar eine Mi-8, an die die R-60 geschraubt wurde. Soll Afghanistan sein.

Well, the Yak-38 may not be a fleet defender in the sense of the Tomcat, and the Kiev-Class is not meant to tangle with 'real' US carrier battle groups. But I still think as light attack craft, the Yak-38 has little operational use: bomb load and range are very restricted, meaning the carrier would have to be close to the shore exposing itself to all sorts of trouble. I really think that hunting for enemy ASW and maybe even small AWACS planes probably helps the general fleet effort better, especially supporting own subs. And while the Yak-38 is not an impressive fighter, it's lack of radar and any modern electronics make it harder to detect. I could well imagine a well led Forger flight to sneak up on a few planes. Even if detected, the presence of an enemy fighter force urges the NATO to send out their own fighters and be careful with their ASW assets. Add the Soviet long range aviation and the naval aviation to the mix, and things start to look interesting. By contrast, everything the Yak-38 could bomb could be bombed better by the other branches of service. If the Forger had been a supersonic, or at least been equipped with better AA weaponry - as it was planned apparently - it could have created more than a little trouble. For gameplay purposes I am going to add at least all aspect missiles. Ironically, I think the Yak-38 and the Kiev-Class would perform even better in the Baltic. While there is not really much space to hide, the ship does not need to expose itself by using radar, since the land based radar can guide the fighter. On the other hand, I don't think the Kiev-Class could stand up to a concentrated attack of the W-German Marineflieger with their Tornados.