Todt Von Oben

What do you think of how well this would adapt itself to use with OFF? Would it work well with the screen views and image quality we have in this game? Howsabout with TRackIR? Prost! TvO

P.S. But after taking the time to write and post the above, flying a game, and coming back, it just occurred to me that when I'm flying OFF, I ALWAYS go for the three point touchdown. Oh well! As Emily Latella (Gilda Radner) used to say: "Nevermind!" Prost! TvO

ARGH! I didn't catch the pricetag! Suddenly, my little ol' PC monitor is looking better and better all the time.

Hi WF2! :yes: While I agree that a well-executed flair and three point touchdown are the fastest way to stop just about any taildragger, under many circumstances that's not the best way to go. In the real world, the safest landing method is the best landing method. Things like wind gusts, crosswinds, rough runways, windshear, irregular thermals generated by varied terrain materials in the approach and runway environments, unfamiliar airports, any conditions affecting depth perception, pilot fatigue, and more, can play hob with any landing. Accordingly, in most circumstances, it is more-often-than-not safer to fly a taildragger onto the wheels at a speed where the control surfaces still have authority, and the transition back into flight (either to salvage a botched touchdown a bit further down the runway, or to do an emergency go-around) is more quickly, easily, and safely accomplished, than it is from the slower, fully-flaired (and more committed) three-point landing configuration. My reference to the axe handles in crosswinds had to do with the Youtube video at the start of this thread; sorry if I didn't make that clear. I agree: there are many reasons why taildraggers groundloop. I think you're right about the Dr.1 being "tall" as planes of that general size go; and clearly the axehandles are there to protect in any condition that might drag a wingtip. But generally speaking, I wouldn't try to three point a taildragger in a crosswind; that's asking for a groundloop. What worked for me was to transition with a crab-kick and land the wheels in this order: upwind main, tailwheel, downwind main; using the control surfaces to counter the crosswind effect while decelerating aerodynamically. That said: I don't think the crab-kick method described in the paragraph above would be advisable for a Dr.1. As you pointed out: those aircraft were designed for pasture pilots. In a flat open field with enough available room, a pilot can usually land pretty much into the wind. Under those conditions, a flair to three point touchdown followed by controlled back pressure on the stick would aerodynamically decelerate the aircraft while digging the skid into the ground, thereby stopping the plane in the shortest distance. No doubt about that. But again, the safest method is the best method. And factoring in all the other "gremlins" that might make my perfect three point landing less than perfect, if I were landing a Dr.1 (or a J-3 Cub) into the wind right now, all things considered, I'd be safer over a broader range of landing conditions and possibilities if I were to wheel land it: keeping the control surfaces up in the wind where they retain maximum available control authority, before letting them fall into the burble where their effectiveness is diminished. I respect your opinion and experience. I find your statement regarding the three-point method essentially correct as far as it goes; but not in the greater context of it being the "best" method, especially when contrasted against the broad range of flight conditions and circumstances existing in the real world. Of course, methods of landing taildraggers is a subject pilots have debated for ages; and I know from experience we'll find others to agree with either of us. But that's part of the fun of forums like this one. :yes: Prost! TvO

Olham, I totally agree. The Dr.1 and D VII are my two favorites, even though the majority of my campaign kills in RB, RBII, RB3D, and OFF have been scored in an Albatros. The Albatros is a dependable mount, but the Dr.1 and D VII have "special characteristics" that make them a bit more fun to fly and fight in. Prost! TvO

Yeah, it's a dirty job...but somebody's got to do it.

About the D-VII: agreed. Maybe not beautiful in appearance, but she flies beautifully.

Here! Here! (Where's that smiley of the two guys clicking their beer mugs?)

Olham, Not surprised that you've been doing it this way all along. I think most of us do. Just felt like documenting it for posterity. And I believe you are absolutely right about what makes us "smear away" sideways in the Albatros, and the way to correct it. The exact same thing happens to me if I use too much rudder in that plane. Sure makes getting into the D-VII a joy! That beautiful birdie makes even hacks like myself feel like Ernst Udet.

The Dr1 rudder loses authority when landing in the three point position because it is in air disturbed by the fuselage. (I've only flown it a few times in OFF, but I noticed that tendancy more in RB3D than in this game.) In real life, it's better to wheel-land it, hold the tail up as long as you can while maintaining directional control with lively feet; let the aircraft decelerate, and then drop the tail skid as late as possible. So they say, anyway. Crosswinds are why they put the axe-handles under the wingtips. Do any of our aerodromes have windsocks? And Voss could have most certainly escaped by outclimbing his adversaries. He stayed to fight because he wanted to. Prost! TvO

Olham, To what I wrote above, let me add: The rudder inputs vary with aircraft. In a D-VII, I can pretty much crank in full top rudder and the plane doesn't mind at all. With the Albatros D-III, it is very easy to add too much top rudder, and that can cause me to lose altitude control. Exerimenting with the twist-stick, I find I only need about 1/2 top rudder with the 'Tros. Flying is a continual process of responding to ever-changing circumstances. Moment to moment, there is a definite balance between the amount of rudder and elevator applied in any given tight turning situation that requires constant adjustment as the turn progresses. That's something we must be able to sense and adjust instinctively in all aspects of the maneuver. It comes with practice. Hope this helps to answer your question. Prost! TvO

Ditto S&R. It's the long-established dicta on the subject of how to stay "on the ball". But I sense your question has more to do with rudder inputs during combat maneuvers. Personally, I find the Albatros (especially the D-III) to be quite nimble. It's all in the control applications. In a tail-chase, I maneuver at full power in an extremely steep bank angle. In this regime the contols swap purposes: the ELEVATOR becomes the rudder and provides huge amounts of control in tightening the turn. The RUDDER (top rudder) is used to keep the nose up. For example: after using normal control inputs to establish a steep right turn, left rudder is applied to keep the nose up, while the rate and radius of turn are dependent primarily on elevator back-pressure. (In a left turn, use the opposite inputs.) Here's an example of a Tros versus a Nieuport. This is in QC: meeting in the merge at 5,000 feet. I've allowed the Nieuport to pass me and gain the advantage. Then I establish a steep right turn with reversed rudder / elevator inputs as described above. Here's how it looks from the pilot's seat: Here's a view of the same moment showing my plane from behind so you can see the elevator and rudder input: And again from above for a better look at the rudder angle. This is about half of the twist stick in top rudder. A view to the rear at that same moment shows the advantaged position I've allowed the Nieuport to gain. Now I'm going to out-turn him. In only a few seconds, by controlling altitude with the rudder, and adjusting the rate and radius of turn with the elevator, I've out-turned him and am bringing my guns to bear. The AI Ace pilot has either lost his altitude authority in the turn, or is deliberately seeking to escape by entering a dive. I followed him and went to guns, scoring hits on his aircraft in this same descending right turn a few moments later. He rolled left as we maneuvered; I continued to follow him down as his aircraft entered an inverted spin from which he never recovered. Impact. I've used these methods in real aircraft simulating dogfights (with the radio replacing the guns) and also in sim with a twiststick. I've yet to buy rudder pedals, but if they work as they should, I see no reason why these same principles won't apply. Fly it that way and we might be surprised how many AI aircraft we once thought we couldn't turn with, soon find themselves within our sights. :yes: Prost! TvO P.S. I have no idea why that extra screen shot shows up below. It's not in my panel and I don't know how to delete it. Please disregard.

Yeah! Love that "going right through him" thing the game has going on there! I was wondering what would happen if I deliberately flew into the wire cables tethering a balloon. Tried it a few times and I'm pretty sure I hit the wire but nothing happened. So I decided to fly into the balloon itself to examine the results. First, check out this "amoeba effect" as the balloon just sort of "absorbs" my D7: And then, after the bag blew up, check the engine-ejection action going on here (like Jammer's sequence). Very cool! I really like the detail shown on the engine, and in the damaged sections of the airframe. Looks like a lot of work went into making it look realistic. Great job! Prost! TvO

I'm not sure what wording the claim should have. What information needs to be supplied, and what doesn't? Somebody want to post a simple claim that is proven effective?

At home, we have OFF running in a brand new Dell XPS where it's the only program other than those that come with the computer. Works great. I want to buy a Dell Laptop to take the game on the road with me when I travel. Using it as an OFF flight sim will be its dedicated function. (I've heard Mac's provide superior gaming, but have no experience with them, so I'm leaning towards Dell.) I'm not well informed as to what would be the best model, type of processor, size of CPU and RAM, monitor size, which graphics card, sound card, joystick, or rudder pedals for this purpose. Polling the computer heads out there: figured on the use of VISTA...If you were going to set one up, what Laptop would you buy, and with what would you equip it? And if you've got the time, please explain why? Thanks in advance. TvO

Thanks for the reply. Budget...say around two grand more or less. Will look up ASUS gaming laptops. Any other suggestions?

Very kind of you to say so, Mr. Kelley; thank you. :yes: And nice website, BTW. Interesting artwork. Especially like your take on Verne's Nautilus: one of the few I've seen that addressed the issue of protecting the prop from debris when the sub was passing through a ship's hull "like a needle through sailcloth." Nicely done. Prost! TvO

Howdy Hauksbee, Put together a little photo sequence of what I think are pretty normal engagement distances during a dogfight. I set this up in QC flying a D7 against a Yank Ace in a Camel. We met in the merge at 5,000 feet. I jogged left and down to avoid his fire, he passed high in my 2 O:clock and started a descending right turn. I came around after him in a right turn. The guy did a reversal and when he didn't turn up where I expected him to be I had to reacquire the target. Found him again, lined up a distant deflection shot, and put in a few rounds to slow him down: Here's the Spot View of that moment to show what the distance was: We continued to maneuver and I caught him again in the turn at closer range: And here's the Spot View showing the distance between us at the time: After he'd absorbed some damage, his maneuvering slacked off and I dropped into his six: And the Spot View of that: Now, I could have shot him from that distance, but I usually like to get in closer if possible. And since the question here is "What's rock throwing distance?" I decided to hold my fire and close in for the kill. In the next scene, I've let go at fairly close range some heavy bursts; he's started to burn and entering a spin to the right as the pilot leaves the aircraft: Here's a couple Spot Views to show what the distance is like: And here's a couple more views of the same moment. It looks really close, but there's still enough room to avoid a collision. As I said, I think this is pretty normal for a dogfight. I'll take a distant shot if I think I have a chance to score hits that will slow him down. (And no, I don't use the sights.) After that, if an opportunity presents itself while we are maneuvering at closing distances, I'll take that shot, too. But to put in the kill shot it's advisable to get in fairly close. Offhand, I'd say about 100 feet or a bit less, from my gun muzzles to the pilot's head, would be about right. It might be possible to estimate the distances using these pictures and based on how many fuselage lengths separate the two aircraft. A D7 is just a bit less than 23 feet long, I believe. I guess the bottom line is, "Do what works for you." This is what works for me. Anyway, hope this helps! Prost! TvO

Yes. My first campaign in OFF. Shooting the hojees out of the bugger but he wouldn't fall. Expended the entire nine yards with no effect. The machine said I was scoring, but the enemy was bulletproof. Opinions ranged from patch not installed correctly to don't know how to shoot. After it happened a few times I finally said frack it and deliberately chopped the sucker's tailfeathers off with my prop at low altitude. We both went down, but I survived and was back on the flying line after 27 days in the hospital. Funniest thing was: that was the only kill that got confirmed in that whole campaign! As for the problem" it turned out I did have the patch installed incorrectly. Once I got that fixed, everything was fine. Prost! TvO

I agree. If the user wants an authentic flight simulation experience, pedals are a necessity. When I was a CFI and Jump Pilot, I owned a modified Luscombe 8E traildragger, flew planes like the Beech D-18, Citabria, Cessna 120, 140, 180, etc. Generally speaking, when flying a taildragger, the pilot becomes more sensitive to the interplay between stick and rudder than he does when flying a "milk stool". So I often had guys with advanced ratings (airline pilots) buying instructional time in my Luscombe so they could sharpen their abilities to stay "on of the ball." In flight sims, I've owned a Sidewinder for years, and it works fairly well for me; but I know from experience what I'm missing and pedals are definitely on my shopping list. About those "flat spin turns" in the DR1: I found something similar was possible with the Luscombe 8E. For example: while on downwind to land on runway 32L at Buchannan Field, Concord California in the early 1980's, I was instructed by the tower to expedite my approach. I slowed down abeam the numbers on downwind at about 800' AGL, and did a very abreviated base leg in an extreme side slip pretty much over and with my groundtrack following taxiway A adjacent to runway 1R. At about 150' AGL, I took my hand off the throttle momentarily and waived to the tower through my front windshield, with 32L in my approximate seven O:clock. (That's what I meant by an abreviated base leg.) Then, I snapped the plane around with forceful use of the stick and left rudder, dropped it onto 32L in a full flare three-point touchdown with just a blip of momentary extra power at the right moment and (thanks to my custom Cleveland wheels and Cessna juice brakes) brought the aircraft to a full stop in less than a 100 foot groundroll. I took up other students that day, and for some reason on all my approaches the Tower kept instructing me to expedite. I think they were just getting their kicks watching me do it. :yes: I could do something similar on takeoff, too. Because of the large amount of lift generated by the long wing; and comparing that to the relatively short fuselage; I found I could turn extremely tight from climbout to downwind (about 180 degrees) with a very small ground track at about 65 mph with no indication the plane wanted so stall or spin. Anyway, I can't wait to try that in sim with a DR1 and a set of pedals. As Wolfgang Langewische pointed out: it's all about "stick and rudder". To really get the feel of this game, I think pedals are a must. Prost! TvO

Widowmaker, I've no advice on the stick, I'm afraid. Still using a sidewinder and looking into sticks and pedals myself. But I noticed your DFA banner. That looks like the one that started it for me. Back in the mid-70's when I was working on the California dropzones, there was a black T-shirt available from SOLDIER OF FORTUNE magazine that had that same emblem (minus the maltese cross and rondels) on it. Basically, it's an unofficial symbol used by a lot of military units; but we adopted it as a commentary about unskilled skydivers who would freight train you from above during freefall Relative Work. After the jumping was done and we were drinking beer, we'd often lift a mug in salute to the jumper who'd blown it the worst that day and call out, "DEATH FROM ABOVE!!" All for fun and a lot of laughs. The guys I jumped with used to wear that black T-shirt at Antioch and Yolo...DZ owners Perry Stevens and George Morar didn't like it but we thought it was great. Haven't seen that emblem in years. For me, it was the precursor to Todt Von Oben. Small world. :yes: TvO

Friends, I watched it knowing it might not be very accurate historically; and knowing it focused a lot on Manfred's personal life; but also looking forward to some WWI aerial combat scenes because there's just darn little of that in the movies these days. With that mindset, I enjoyed the movie and will watch it again. Laughed when I saw a green-tailed Albatros marked Tod Von Oben! (The guy who popped the balloon with a flare pistol.) I started using a similar name several years ago when I joined an online group called The Green Tails flying RB3D. Just a coincidence that a close approximation ended up in a recent movie, I'm sure; but I got a grin out of it nonetheless. Prost! TvO

Wow! Talk about flying off into the Twilight Zone! You know, this could be another way to have fun with this, though. One day I might invest a campaign "life" to simply flying off the end of the World and see where it goes. Prost! TvO

Sorry if this is stirring the kettle, but... Two campaigns starting in Jasta 1, 1915 flying an Eindekker...first mission each time...not using auto trim but do have auto mixture on...took off from Bertincourt and hit Warp....headed North and went to first waypoint West of Douai...hit Warp again and it went wild...came out of it in an extremely high pitch attitude, somewhere out over the English Channel. Only seems to happen on that first campaign mission. Thoughts? TvO