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@Geezer I'm still waiting for the proof of the existence of 63% scale stock objects. Where is the example?

Once again, why are you so insulting? I don't get it. We weren't offensive to you! We only stated and proofed the facts about object scaling in all TW games. And BTW why do you think we are SF "fanboyz". As I already stated, I also own and play FE2. So why do you call me a SF fanboy?

My point is, if all objects are of the same size (e.g. 100%) then no extra consideration is needed what objects can be placed near the other. I assume that would made map making easier. So why scaling objects down, if you only get the disadvantage that you can not place those objects near 100% (stock) objects?

I don't understand why you are so offensive. The thread subject is "scale of stock objects". All measurements (I took measurements in SF1/SF2 and FE2, others took measurements in FE1) indicate that stock objects in all TW games (SF1, SF2, FE1 and FE2) are of 100% size. Instead of calling us "fanboyz" and "clowns", why do you not show us at least one stock object in FE1 with a size of 63% to prove your statement that some stock objects are scaled 63%. Of course you are free to scale your objects the size you like. Really nobody is hindering you. Do what you like. I only still don't see the advantage of scaling objects down, if all other (stock) objects are 100% size. That's all.

Maybe some of the flight model guys find this useful for creating, analyzing or checking flight models. Last year I had the idea for a tool that extracts the data of the debug hud and writes them into a text file: (from this post: https://combatace.com/forums/topic/91675-how-to-develop-test-flight-models/?do=findComment&comment=741238): The process steps are illustrated in the following figure: The tool "DebugHUDExtractor" I came up with is written in python and uses the optical character recognition (OCR) software tesseract. Thus to use the DebugHudExtractor you have to install python, some python packages and the tesseract software. For those who want to try this tool, here are the installation, configuration and usage instructions: 1.) Download and install tesseract: https://digi.bib.uni-mannheim.de/tesseract/tesseract-ocr-w64-setup-v4.1.0.20190314.exe Copy lucidaconsole.traineddata into tessdata directory (e.g. C:\Program Files\Tesseract-OCR\tessdata). Needs admin rights. This file contains the trained data for the lucida console font. I use this font as it gave me the best results with the character recognition. This font has to be configured for the debug hud output in the game (see. step 4 below) 2.a) Download and install python: https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.7.3/python-3.7.3-amd64.exe While installing select "Customize installation": -optional: change the installation directory (e.g I use C:\Python37) -enable "Add Python to environment variables" 2.b) Install needed python packages. On the windows command line execute the following commands: pip install pillow pip install numpy pip install opencv-python pip install pytesseract 3.) Setting the path to the tesseract executable: In <Python_install_directory>\Lib\site-packages\pytesseract\pytesseract.py (line 35) set tesseract_cmd to the file path of the tesseract executable. Use double backslashes or normal slashes. E.g.: tesseract_cmd = 'C:\\Program Files\\Tesseract-OCR\\tesseract' 4.) Configure the game. In SF2/FE2 game set Option Hud = Normal and configure the Huddata.ini. It enables the debug hud, set the font to lucida console, sets a bigger font size (the bigger the better, but all relevant debug info should still be displayed in the screen,e.g. for my 1920x1080 resolution I use TextSize = 24) ,the normal font color is changed to red (required for text filtering), the default right info box is disabled and the default left aircraft info box is moved to the right (that gives more space for the debug info box on the left) [Debug] DisplayDebug=true [Font] TextFontName=Lucida Console TextSize=24 [InfoDisplay] //BackgroundImage=TextBackground.tga BottomLeftPosition=0.8,1.0 //BottomRightPosition=0.99,0.985 NormalColor=1.0,0.0,0.0,1.0 5.) Configure the python script debughudextractor.py : Depending on the values you want to extract from the debug hud the variables extractPitch, extractAlpha, ... have to be set to True or False, The leftRect and rightRect variables have to be configured depending on where the debug info box and aircraft info box is located on your screen (depending on your screen resolution and the entries in your huddate.ini) The format is as follows: leftRect = (top-left-x, top-left-y, bottom-right-x, bottom-right-y) The top left corner of the screen is the origin (0,0). E.g. with a resolution of 1920x1080 and the above huddata.ini, I use the following: leftRect = (56,236,1450,1080) rightRect = (1528,968,1920,1080) See this picture: 6.) Start the script from windows command line: python debughudextractor.py video_file_path time_step_in_s start_time_in_s end_time_in_s <video_file_name>.txt and <video_file_name>_error.txt will be written into the directory of the video file. <video_file_name>.txt contains the extracted data. <video_file_name>_error.txt contains what values at what time couldn't be recognized. If a value couldn't be recognized, then the very next video frame is used and analyzed.

The speed in the bottom left corner and the KIAS number in the debug screen show the same airspeed: indicated airspeed (IAS). Only the unit in the bottom left can be different (km/h or mph instead of knots). True airspeed (KTAS) at a given altitude translates to an indicated airspeed (KIAS) and vice versa. (In the game TK uses equivalent airspeed (EAS) for indicate airspeed) An online converter for airspeeds you can find here: http://www.hochwarth.com/misc/AviationCalculator.html Therefore IMHO it's not correct to average both types of velocities and compare it with real life data. Depending on what real life velocity is measured (indicated airspeed or true airspeed) the according numbers (KIAS or TIAS) should be compared. I think with ConstantSpeed=TRUE a constant speed propeller is simulated in the game. (AFAIK most WW-2 and post WW-2 prop aircraft have constant speed propellers.) The corresponding automatic variable pitch is simulated with the high prop efficiency over a broad range of the advance ratio. From TK: and HTH

Sorry for hijacking this thread. But as a layman I have a question: What are the advantages of photoshop over gimp?

After sifting through the archive of the thirdwire forum: Third Wire.7z I found the formula for thrust computation: Thrust = Power / Velocity * Efficiency Power is dependent on throttle setting and is multiplied with the coefficient from the altitude table Efficiency is taken from the prop efficiency table With the FM set to Normal the thrust (from debug output) matches this formula exactly. But with the FM set to Hard, the thrust in game is smaller. In the forum archive there is a thread "TK, ran into a constant speed prop thrust issue" that covers this issue: From TK: and If I understand this correctly then the InducedVelocity must be added to the Velocity in the thrust formula. But in the above formula the InducedVelocity is dependent on thrust (but for the thrust calculation I need the InducedVelocity). Maybe the thrust variable in the InducedVelocity formula is different to thrust calculated by the thrust formula? Does anybody have an idea and can shed some light on this?

The unit is Watt (W). MinManifoldPressure, MaxManifoldPressure and WEPManifoldPressure are not used for the flight model. Those values are used only for the display of the cockpit manifold pressure gauges.

Does anyone have a documentation (e.g. formulas) how the resulting thrust is computed from the FM ini values at given input values (throttle, altitude, velocity)?

No.

The draw distance for labels is determined by the game engine and AFAIK can not be changed. What my mod does is, it blocks all characters but the 'dot'. The distance text for distances greater 10 nm is drawn in the format x nm (e.g. 23 nm). That text contains no 'dot', all text is blocked. If the distance is less than 10 nm, the format changes to x.x nm (e.g. 9.9 nm). That text contains a 'dot' and the dot is visible because it's not blocked.

My measurements in SF2: flying over a 3000m runway with 200 KTAS takes around 30 seconds, with 400 KTAS around 15 seconds. That means the velocity in game is 100%.

Do you mean the subjective perception of velocity or do you think the aircraft is really moving with 50% of the real life velocity?

Probably your merged installation is somehow faulty. Can you create a single mission with the A-4B?

I don't ignore facts. I only want to clarify once and for all the scaling in the thirdwire games. Myself I could only test SF2, FE2 and WOV stock objects (aircraft, ground objects and buildings). And they all (including buildings in FE2) are full size. Sorry, I forgot to mention here that the measurements were made for FE2 buildings, not SF2. So again, since I don't own FE1: Can please someone measure floor height of FE1 buildings. Thanks!

I also checked some terrain lods: buildings. The measured average floor height is around 2.5m. Seems it's real life scale.

Sorry for the interruption, but where is this 63% scale for First Eagle objects is coming from? I know that stock SF2 game (including First Eagles 2) objects are of 100% size. I also know that Wings Over Vietnam (the only SF1 game I have) stock objects are of 100% size. Therefore I suppose that First Eagles stock objects are of 100% size too. To be sure, can someone please measure some First Eagle objects with the LODViewer and compare it with real life size.

Maybe just to preselect the campaign in the "create campaign menu"?

Never noticed this before. After some tests, it seems it depends on the flight model setting (normal or hard). If set to normal, the user gets the same weight reduction as the AI. The question is, what defines the amount of weight reduction?

After running the renamed exe (StrikeFighters2 Formosa.exe) for the first time and selecting the create create campaign menu, then exited the game without changing anything, the campaign section in options.ini is as follows: [Campaign] CampaignName=561029 Operation Kadesh PlayerService=Israel PlayerUnit=No. 117 First Jet Squadron AircraftType=Meteor8 Difficulty=NORMAL Length=NORMAL AircraftSupply=NORMAL WeaponSupply=NORMAL LoadCampaign=FALSE CampaignSavename= As said already, those entries are just the saved settings from the campaign->create campaign menu. In my case it's the first stock campaign from my fully merged install. After restarting the game and selecting the create campaign menu, selecting the campaign "590721 Operation Formosa Freedom", choosing a service and aircraft the campaign section in options.ini now reflect the last selections, e.g: [Campaign] CampaignName=590721 Operation Formosa Freedom PlayerService=USN PlayerUnit=VA-106 Gladiators AircraftType=A-4B Difficulty=NORMAL Length=NORMAL AircraftSupply=NORMAL WeaponSupply=NORMAL LoadCampaign=FALSE CampaignSavename=formosa freedom a-1j.SAV You don't have to change this entries manually. All can be changed / choosen from within the game create campaign menu.

Ok, I installed and tested the "Operation Formosa Freedom" Campaign (the first example you mentioned above, that supposedly missed required options.ini edit instructions): And ...surprise... I could start the campaign without problems (and without editing anything in the options.ini manually). So maybe there are no instructions to edit the options.ini because it's simply not required for this campaign.

IMHO the entries under [Campaign] are just the saved settings from the campaign->create campaign menu in the game ui. So I doubt this entries have to be edited manually.

There is a document for sf1, but I think most also applies to sf2: https://combatace.com/forums/topic/92182-requested-strike-fighter-editing-info-document/

I think the aliasing is defined in ALIAS.LST contained in ObjectData001.CAT. The TW cat extractor does not extract this file, but my cat extractor does. e.g. ALIAS.LST contains the following lines, that maps insignia003 and insignia004 to insignia002: Insignia003.tga Insignia002.tga Insignia004.tga Insignia002.tga