Fortiesboy

Yes, i can understand that logic, so I'll try more of that. Must say though that so far the latest testing hasn't produced muxh, but then I have been lined up behind.

Yes, I think your problem may be the AMD Optimizer thing re the AMD dual processor. You need to make some sort of adjustment. I'm nVidia myself but this thread you've been pointed to by messaround will no doubt help

Taffy S1 Yes, I see your logic re the points in the different patches. I'll try that in one of the QC planes . I'll make some extreme points values ( having backed up first ) to see what happens. Yes, I'm a bit surprised that there aren't one or two more tweakers. They must all be away at war or something

Hello Church and welcome. Let's see - best to get you starting again from scratch. There are some important things to do in the right order - miss one out and you can have problem. Uninstall OFF3 and CFS3 in that order- Best to do it this way. Go to Add Remove programmes in Control panel. Remove OFF3. Then go to C Drive and Delete the OBD software folder. then go to Documents and settings/owner/application data /microsoft/ and delete the CFSWWl Over Flanders field folder. That is OFF3 out of the way. Now do the same in respect of CFS3, but when you come to delete the folders CFS3 will have its main folder in Program Files/ Microsoft Games . The folder in Documents and Settings will be in the same place as the OFF3 folder was . Now empty the recycle bin. You may want to reboot- Now install CFS3 using the disc(s). In the CFS3 folder you will see a config file - the Icon looks like a spanner ( wrench in USA ). Double click on that, click on File and change the resolution settings at the bottom to as high as your system will run - That's right , the higher the resolution, the better. CFS3 and OFF run faster on higher resolutions. Next go back to the CFG file opening screen and click on Custom settings. Click on OK and then you will see "Parameter editor for image quality" Put all the sliders to 5. PAUSE Here for IMPORTANT BIT. You will be doing this again for OFF 3 when it is installed. But for OFF3 you have the terrain and scenery slider at 3 - Not 5 - If you do the computer cannot handle it. Back to CFS3 config file Click on window and you will see a menu. Click on Overrides. Tick ( check in USA ) High resolution buffer; Terrain detail texture; disable Validate device; Uncheck all other boxes, particularly Dual Pass render. Don't yet need to click on OK Back to the menu, clicking on Window , select Texture info Leave the sliders alone. You will see some button choices under bold writing headings . Starting in the left column going down then right column going down click the these buttons in each category- 2nd ;3rd;2nd;3rd;2nd.1st;1st. Now click on OK and close the config editor by clicking on File and exit - DO NOT close by clicking on the top right hand cross. Now patch CFS3 to 3.1 - Now run CFS3 and fly a mission- say a dogfight just for a little while. This puts some files in the registry that OFF will need. If you do not run CFS3 once then OFF will not work. OK - If Cfs3 runs OK then you can install OFF3. When you have installed OFF3 - the installer will do everything, Run the 1.1 patch. Now start OFF3 via the icon on the desktop- YOU DO NOT NEED TO DO THE CONFIG FILE YET_ When the screen comes up with the menu along the bottom, you will see at the right end the word "Workshops". Click on that and then make your selections. Do not choose the High Res setting for the aircraft( you won't see any damage ) About halfway up you will see a tab re Config file . click on that and the OFF3 config file will open. Do the same with that as you did with the CFS3 one BUT Remember about the terrain and scenery sliders. they should be on 3. Go back to the opening screen of OFF3 and go to pilot Dossiers where you need to make a pilot or else OFF won't run. It guides you on how to do that. Then, hopefully, fly OFF- Find your legs in QC. HTH BTW - Are you using the AMD Optimizer re your AMD Dual core processor- If not search the forum for it.

Some interesting posts there, Prop BTW- before my main thoughts in this post, you will find, as i say, that changing the values to 10 in the threshold section will give plenty of damage, but not every time as to make it arcade. I must experiment with the "Points" system as you have described it. I had it figured somewhat differently, and mine is pure guesstimation, mind - You may have info direct from the "horse's mouth" I figured that as the bullets hit, the probability factor came into play as to what was likely to get hit most, and then if it got hit, it acquired those points indicated. Then those points acquired were used to reach a threshold value, which when it was reached, the effect shown came in. So, say X points were needed to reach Threshold value 40, then the effect for 40 ( e.g. which could be debris flying off ) happened. More points than X would be needed to reach threshold value of 100, and then the effect for 100 ( being "break", ie wing coming off, or explosion ) would happen. So, in my thinking, if you changed the points to a higher figure, then the bullet hits gave you that figure, and that would be the way to reach the threshold value sooner, thus seeing the damage sooner.? This is in contrast to your thinking " So, if you want to strengthen a component, simply increase the hit points. To weaken a component, decrease the hit points." Frankly, I don't know which is correct. -lol. As I say, mine is assumption, yours may be also, or you may have some inside info. It's not important to me to be considered correct on this - I've got no ego with it, it's just some interesting messing about, - but I would like to know which it is, because I do find all this somewhat fascinating. Tell you what, - I can just see Winder and Pol having a good old chuckle at this - seeing two punters wallowing around in their "theories" Wonder if one of 'em will chip in and put us right? cheers

Hmm, seems the 2 disc/ ubisoft disc theory has bitten the dust. :) I'm seeing from AROTH's post that I am not alone re the lack of damage. Still thinking aloud here; Could the way the sim is patched be relevant.? i.e. Have those, seeing the damage, patched 1.1 and then ALL patches up to 1.28a-- and those who aren't seeing the damage jumping straight from 1.1 to one of the later patches, say, 1.26 or 1.28a ? See what I mean?; I know the Devs say that after installing OFF you can then patch straight to 1.26 or whatever, and there should be no difference, but this is "Clutching at Straws time here folks" -lol

Thanks for your replies, Taffy, but, and don't take it the wrong way, I'm well ahead of your thoughts on this. :) What I have described is many QC flights in an install, done like this - which i have already mentioned. 1. A new computer - top spec. On which was installed a vanilla CFS3 using the original two disc issue * ( I'll come back to this later ) , patched to 3.1a and a mission of CFS3 flown. Now it's ready for OFF3. 2. Off 3 installed apparently without a hitch to 1.1 Then it was patched to 1.28a , via 1.26. There were then a number of trials using both the hardcore and normal exes, as you describe. The lack of damage re wings was noticed in all flights etc. Then I modded, as mentioned in other threads, and a swapping of files etc . Polovski mentioned that 1.26 onwards of a vanilla install should give wings coming off etc. So I uninstalled properly and deleted all folders of Off ( as previously described in another thread ) and re installed as at 2 above. No mods made to xdp files or whatever, - and still the same lack of damage. Then we came to this thread and Polovski's comments re he thinks my install may be "porked " somehow still. So, since my last post and just before this post, I have uninstalled and re installed OFF3 again. And extensively tested for a couple of hours or so - and still every plane which succombed , fell out of the sky INTACT. NOt one wing came off. This was test with the install at 1.26 + hotfix; - and then later at 1.28 with normal exe. I flew against Rookies in Dogfight , and in Turkey Shoot, and the messages confirmed many hits were taken . So, as they say over the Pond - Go Figure ! -lol The only thought i have now is about the CFS3 exe. Mine is from the install using the original two disc CFS3. ( still need the disc in to play ) Many are from the Ubisoft DVD which I think I'm right in saying doesn't need the disc in to play. Could this be the difference? Could it be that CFS3 original discs users are the ones not getting damage? Thinking out loud here? Which are you using Pol? Taffy? Anyone ? cheers

Pol Hi. The install I now have is as above. Having uninstalled, and deleted OFF3 remaining folders in Docs and settings and C Drive and used reg cleaner to really clean it,( though i don't think it found any entries to remove ), I installed OFF3 again on top of an unmodified CFS3 install on a new computer. I then patched with 1.28a. I then played it some and had the same - easy go down but intact scenario. Then I tested again going from hardcore install to Normal instal etc. Still they went down intact. Sure, some spiralled, some drifted, some went straight on slowly and then down- one did explode , but nowhere was it that wings came off. I flew mostly the DR1 which is the best plane to fly and shoot in the sim , IMHO., but I also flew the tripe 2 gun and the SE5a I'll try again after a re install, * then, if still the same,the turkey shoot missions, and send the bits you want. As someone famous once said "I may be a little time " * - My CFS3 install has now been modded by the install of ETO since yesterday, FYI. Edit- Thinking about it , I'll install , patch to 1.26- try it some , then go to patch 1.28a.

Yes, well I did say "aiming " with trackir on or off. I always fly using trackir. I've probably used it more than most folks here. I had a trackir 1 almost as soon s it came out. Used it ever since. Won't fly a sim without it. But I have the F9 and F12 keys each mapped to a button. So I can centre ( usually just before firing- I can also switch off trackir momentarily, and this is what I meant. Those that can do this, do you see a difference between aiming accuracy with trackir on or when switched off. Targeting cone ? what's that ? -lol Seriously , I have always had that switched off- you're right, flying with that is arcade.

Hi Bigfish. The news re flight sim shows is generally found on the website of RC Simulations, of Bristol. In fact, there is a show imminent at Cardiff on or around April 11th. At this time i am intending to go, subject to weather, re the travelling. Yes, I was at the show you mentioned. In fact, I saw Oleg and managed to get his autograph- Falcon 4 was big at the show then , but we haven't seen it lately. I too met James Hallows - a great, friendly guy- I've always regarded him as a genius to have made that Foxy stuff. And he is highly qualified in other spheres too. Cheers

Hey British S! Have you seen my reply to your thread in BHAH Help forum - i.e this one "Flight characteristics- joystick/keyboard gone AWOL, Planes keep crashing" I think that may help your problem. cheers

Hello Pol. Don't mind in the slightest, old chap :) If it helps, I'm glad to be able to. cheers

I might have to plead guilty to the first- but not the second. :) Everything about OFF 3 is new. New computer, loaded with CFS3 original 2 discs. installed OFF3- That's it. A thought occurs - Nearly all my flying and testing hs been done in QC. Are your findings from QC or Campaign? Could that make a diff? Other things which I wonder if they affect gun hits. (I haven't compared results) 1. I aim without having the EA padlocked 2. Aiming with trackir On and with trackir Off ? Any diff? Seriously, re the missing! In the testing I put on the messages ( Never have them on normally) and I did have some shots not register, but many did. Thinking it might be a case of "missing" I even made the EA Rookie and flew one on one. I'll test some more - I'm on 1.28a on normal- on that should I get the sort of damage you describe in QC? cheers

Hello Bigfish Yes, I keep returning and relearning falcon 4. the latest version i downloaded was Openfalcon, which is a one click install after installing the original F4 disc . It is good. I feel the same re the Cougar- It does keep throwing a wobbly, but I too love the programming. I found it a steep learning curve, and all it's features are still not used by me. But I wouldn't want to be without it. If funds are available, the simcontrol is exquisite. The guys making it are from Devon UK and attend most flight sim shows where it is demoed. Are you british? could you get to a flight sim show in UK? cheers

Polovski - thanks for that. You have said before that since 1.26, that wings come off easily etc, but that hasn't been my experience. I spent a whole day after 1.28a and the Normal and Hardcore exes testing, and although i could get the EA to succumb easily, they basically just went down, sort of flat, with not much damage apparent apart from some small debris bits flying off early in the attack. Whether they went down easy , as in normal, or very late as in Hardcore, they were for the most part intact in going down. And in view of your having raised the possibility of a screwed install, I had made these tests after a complete re install of OFF, having deleted all OFF files before the re install. I only fly in the cockpit. My bullet strength is normal. I only fly with and against the later planes of the war - Albs, Dr1s, Se5a, Camels etc onwards. So what happens with Eindeckers and DH thingys etc, I don't know. -lol Which is why I made the comment about different computers and settings etc. Now, with some of my "threshold values " at 10- I do get wings off, explosions etc.- BUT not as easily or arcade-like as you might think, being so different from the default values. cheers

Yes, it is extremely good. Because it is very expensive - made to order -, and because i still wanted to use the buttons of the Cougar, I have a simpler version. ( My mate in Wiltshire has the full works- but he flies Spitfire sims almost exclusively ) It has only the main joystick - X and Y axis and rudders. I therefore use the Cougar for the throttle, and the buttons of the Cougar are fully functional using , of course, James Hallows' Foxy programming. It is surprisingly compact used like that. The spade stick is just sublime, on the WW l and WWll sims. I still have the Cougar X-Y stick handy on my right for the jet sims. I figured on approaching retirement age , that you can't take it with you so I spent some of it! lol

Maeran This may help - see my post in this thread Flight characteristics- joystick/keyboard gone AWOL, Planes keep crashing cheers

Yes, Cougar user here too. Well, I use it in conjunction with a Simcontrol Spitfire joystick. Very useful tip re the powered hub. I normally have it plugged into the usb socket on the front of the case. Several times i have to re connect. and flash etc. I thought that was due to the power settings of the computer, which i haven't messed with. But I'll try a hub. cheers

Maico S! See my post in this thread -" Flight characteristics- joystick/keyboard gone AWOL, Planes keep crashing" There is a detailed step by step on how to do this. This is what has to be done for anyone who is using more than one controller. ( The second one being the rudder ) HTH

There have been several threads discussing the pros and cons of various patches, most notably the alternate Normal and Hardcore software exes. What some folks refer to as DM differences is basically the readiness or otherwise of the planes, including your own, to succumb to being fired on and crashing. Polovski has said, in one of the threads, that the patches don't change the damage showing , i. e wings coming off, explosions etc. and I found that to be the case. Changing from one of the exes to the other only caused the planes to succumb earlier or later ( in the hardcore case, if ever-lol )- The main benefit I saw was that you could make a setting where the EA didn't fire on you from hundreds of yards away, but had to wait till closer ( as you would do ) before firing. However, having said that it does seem different folks have had various results depending i suppose on how they fly the sim and their computer(s) settings?

See my thread re making your own damage modelling- You can really have some damage showing using that guide

Simon, I second these sentiments. you must be a very proud man. Take care of yourself and your family.

British S! I hope I can help here. I know what i want to say, I only hope it gets to you the same :) OK, you are using two controllers to fly OFF. As you say above you pause etc and finally get to Controls. Under Configuration, you should select Mine - OFF ( unlike CFS3 itself) does not , and cannot, use any other configuration, so you must only use the Mine one. You say your pedals show up as the main controller. This is OK. The Controls have to pick one of your controllers and it happens to show the pedals as the main one. Under Joystick type, you should find a button next to the pedals controller which if you click it will then select and show the X52 Now, staying with the pedals you will see the list of functions, usually the first is the aileron axis .yes? If that has X or anything under the Control column, then select it and delete it using the Delete Assignment tab at the bottom. Do the same for all other Axes- elevator, throttle EXCEPT the Rudder Axis. This you should select and then use Add Assignment to add the pedals -( You normally are asked to move the pedals to assign it ) Now go back to Joystick type and select the X52. Look at the Axes in that and assign the aileron and elevator and throttle axis to your X52. Look at the rudder Axis and make sure that is blank, if necessary use the Delete Assignment button at the bottom. Now at bottom right there is a Save Config As tab . Use that to Save your file . YOU MUST save it as "Mine" Now you should be OK. In essence what you have done is allocate things to the appropriate controller, Ailerons, elevator and throttle to the X52 - with no rudder instruction, and Rudder to your pedals- with no aileron, elevator or throttle instruction. Before, these may have been duplicated and confused the sim. HTH

Hello Prop-Wasche (like the name-lol ) I find the threshold values are the main determining factor in getting the wing to "break", i.e come off :) And thus in getting the end effect on the other plane parts too. You will notice that the "break" value on all the parameters of all the plane parts is 100. As I understand it, it is only when 100 is reached ( by the action of the bullets hitting and gathering points in Damage Boxes seen earlier in the file ( Probability and Points ) ) that the effect is made, i.e the item "breaks" In the case of a wing -literally. When the effects listed prior to "break" become activated, it is because their values are reached. You will notice that most of these effects prior to the "break" have lower values. Thus your attack normally has debris first, fabric rip next ( or whatever ) etc until finally the end effect ( break ) is reached. Because this is 100 I was of the opinion that that figure was almost never reached, thus the effect was rarely activated. So I made all the values for one of the parts of the plane down to 10 - Even the break value. Then things really did start to break. (BTW, it's not much use reducing all value to 10 except the break one which is left at 100, if you want to see the final effect) I suggest anyone trying it for the first time uses a value of 10 all through, just to see the difference. If it is too much damage too soon for you , then change the values back to a bit higher, that suits your idea of how easy the damage should be. I find that even with the values at 10, it is still somewhat random for the damage to happen early. As for the bdp file, I am not being adamant about this, but I do believe it is necessary. If you find it isn't, fine- However, as the bdp file is re-made on starting OFF, it seems you just as well delete it as not? I'd be interested in what you find :) HTH

Hello If any of you wish to modify some OFF files to get more damage in the enemy planes, please see my guide ( step by step ) in the "3rd Party and Mods release Announcements" forum. The devs have very kindly given me permission to do this, for which I thank them. cheers