Saab JA-37 Viggen

[+Dave 2,318]

So is this matter closed or do I need to get involved?

[bazze 0]

In terms of the Viggen:

Consider it closed - Capun goofed but since it already has been downloaded 1000 times and people enjoy it then please continue enjoying it!

 

 

In terms of the Ki84:

No permission to redistribute the mesh. I'm not saying OK to this.

[+whiteknight06604 931]

If you guys purchased it before the terms "changed"(redefined?) I would request a refund as you can't use the model for what it was purchased for and the terms of use were not clear at all.it's a shame too as it looked like the Ki 84 was far along and many hours of work were invested in it.I wouldn't bear any grudges agaist the author but I'm sure disapointed.

[+Dave 2,318]

My question is then why even buy if you cant do anything with it? The file is going to be deleted from CA in the interest of the legalities involved.

 

I do not want this coming back to to bite COMBATACE, in the ass later. Sorry it came to this but we have the bigger picture to look at and thatis keeping COMBATACE out of legal trouble.

[Guest Charles]

Anders:

 

I think you may have misunderstood the situation.

Your concern about the source files is perfectly clear, and reasonable. As you say:

"The thing is that it is OK to use the models in renders and animations and publish these as you wish. The only thing that is not allowed is to redistribute the mesh (=the source)."

 

The A-Team has not distributed your source files, and never would.

 

You may not understand that Strike Fighters does not use .3ds or .obj source files. Capun used your source file to create a LOD file which Strike Fighters does use (an animation), utilizing the textures you sold with it as base, and it has been published. This is the right of anyone who buys your model, as you acknowledge (we have a QC's opinion to support this). If it were otherwise, as USAFMTL says, "why would anyone even buy your model if you can't do anything with it".

 

You knew that this project was being worked on by the A-Team over several months, and raised no objection during that time. Assuming that "Bazze" is really Anders, the author of the Viggen model, and not a mod-Nazi agent provocateur, I really do not understand the concern you now express. I would have thought that you would be pleased to see that so many people had downloaded and were using something that you had a hand in creating.

 

It seems a shame that this groundless concern has caused CombatAce to pull the Viggen package.

 

However, any publicity is good publicity, and for those who don't have it already, and who want to fly this outstanding aircraft, it continues to be available at Capun's site (http://cplengineeringllc.com/SFP1/Skunworks.html). The blurb reads (and will continue to read):

 

"Saab JA-37 Viggen. Original model sources by Anders Lejczak (www.colacola.se). Developed for SFP1 by the SFP1 Dev A-Team of Capun (model), Gramps (textures), Charles (FM and screens) and Kesselbrut (Virtual Cockpit)."

 

As for the Ki-84, we will see. As I understand it the model is fairly primitive, and the accompanying skin is poor (the screenshots above are of completely new skins by Gramps), so it may not be worth the effort to finish it. And for future reference, I would strongly advise that any member of the Strike Fighters community NEVER purchase one of your models.

Edited September 21, 2006 by Charles

[+Dave 2,318]

I didnt want to pull it Charles but from a website founder stand point it seems to be prudent until it is resolved.

[Guest Gramps]

No Dave, you did the right thing. CombatAce is far too important to our Community to risk getting involved in potential legal hassles.

 

Having said that, I have no problem in doing so, so if all other download places for the Viggen dry up, I'll purchase additional bandwidth for my site and host it there, for free download for all who want it.

 

And as Charles says, at no stages are any source files re-distributed, the model files we package with our mods are totally new LOD's created by capun, and as such they are his property, and he can do what he will with them.

 

As to the Ki-84, the textures are not too shabby, if I do say so myself (despite the terrible map - who maps a prop shaft mesh four times the size of the actual engine mesh?), but as stated the model needs plenty of work if it's too be brought up to a acceptable SF level. That's for capun to decide, as he will have to do the work. It's an acceptable "target" as it is though, and looks even better when it's spiralling out of control and on fire! So again, no source files will be distributed, only model files (LOD's) created by capun.

 

As a general observation, I find it strange that this was brought up now (as Charles says, not in the last few months where the development of this model, and it's source, have been no secret), while capun is down in Peru looking after his mother after the death of his father. And unable to say any words whatsoever in his defence. Pretty low act, in my humble opinion.

 

Gramps

[BUFF 8]

There does seem to be some misunderstandings on both sides.

May I suggest that rather than wash the laundry further in public that the 2 parties sort things between themselves by email/PM etc.?

As already stated by USAFMTL CombatACE takes things copyright like seriously so we will await an amicable resolution.

[+Dave 2,318]

Like Charles said the source files were not distributed so I am not sure what the issue could be. What was capun supposed to do with the model after purchase? Did I miss somerthing?

[Dagger 21]

Hi,

yes the license basically says use it as you wish as long as you don't redistribute it in any form,

 

I have already asked the admin not to remove the files - I don't wish to spoil the fun for the members of this community since I'm an aviation freak myself. Since the team credited me I don't see any bad intetion.

 

BR,

Anders

 

I'm glad yall got things worked out.I came here to check this out.Thanks to everyone for being civil and keeping this mature and getting things worked out.I hope that everyone is happy with the outcome of this.

Have a great day!

edit:looks like everyone showed up while I was typing...sorry guys.

[bazze 0]

Hi all,

Yes I am Anders and no Mod-Nazi.

 

It boils down to that you are redistributing derivates of the source files. See it from my point of view:

 

Would it be OK for me to extract the geometry from your LOD files, rigged the mesh and distribute it as my own?

Would it be OK to slightly modify your textures and give them away as add-ons for my models?

 

No it wouldn’t.

 

 

I’m not into SIM-games so I wasn’t aware of what was going on – I was googling the net yesterday for my name and this site popped up.

 

I was trying to be a sport by letting it go in my previous posts but instead of a thanks or anything like that I was replied with arguments that my texture was used because somebody didn’t want to waste their own time. I’m regularly contacted by mod teams and I usually give them my OK.

 

Today when I read this thread I see how you are bashing my work (if you take a look at my site then you see that the models have a totally different purpose than being used in games) and that you do not intend to respect my wishes by redistributing derivates of my meshes from your personal sites. I’m very disturbed by this attitude and I also know there is no point in trying to do anything about it.

 

So.. I’m going to show my good will and give you my OK use both the Viggen and the Ki84 in your projects (and redistribute the LODs). The only thing I ask is to be properly credited for both models:

Original modeling by Anders Lejczak, www.colacola.se

LOD conversion (or whatever the proper term is) by Cesar Pun

 

TO ADMINS:

Please make the Viggen downloadable again and please let me know when the Ki84 is released. I’m giving the mod team my permission as long as I’m properly credited.

 

 

General note:

I think we have encountered an area between two worlds

- the world I come from where digital assets are used by publishing renders and animations.

- the world where you come from where digital assets are used by redistribution of their derivates.

 

I suspect you have encountered copyright issues before - maybe you should have a forum for those issues too...

Edited September 22, 2006 by bazze

[Guest Gramps]

Thank you for allowing us to use your files.

 

BTW I don't believe an LOD is backwards compatible. That is, I don't think it's possible to "extract geometry" from an LOD, the reason they're used in the first place. And LOD's in reality aren't mods of your files but completely new creations. Yes, based on your source (which is why you receive due credit), but new creations nonetheless. And the reason that your models aren't really made for sims explains to me any potential quality issues versus those models made from a sim from the start.

 

Anyway, thanks again for seeing reason, we do things for free (spending lots of time and a fair bit of money), give credit where it is due, and I'm glad you can see that.

 

Gramps

[bazze 0]

no probs!

wish you happy flying!

[+Dave 2,318]

Ok if someone want to makeit avail here at COMBATACE, then go ahead but I am saving this thread to cover our asses in the meantime.

 

Bazze

 

LOD's can not be made back into source files. Once they are LOD's for SF that is all they can ever be used for. They can not be undone.