Down in Flames

[+kendo353]

I seem to recall in the movie Flyboys, that they mentioned 3 sides being protected by balloons.

But I don`t wanna say for certain it`s historically correct..

 

You could just not include unmanned balloons for the moment, and add them later on in a patch

or something.

Salute!

 

RVH

cheers Red... i found a couple of images on Rosebud's site, where they're called "captive balloons".

but also some 'captive balloons' are shown as being manned (an observation balloon). which is a bit

confusing. other than this, the earliest "blimp" photos i've found have been from the 40's. i also don't

recall any pilot memoirs mentioning them. i think i'll take your advice, and keep them to one side, until

i know for sure. thanks for the response..

 

cheers,

ken

 

[Stryker7]

I cant say that dirigibles were used in WW1, but I know for a fact that they were used during the American Civil War.

 

They were used as reconnaissance balloons, to overlook battle fields and for oncoming military formations. It would SEEM, that with the advent of fixed winged aircraft, the use of lighter than air craft would have ceased, but it seems that they were still used all the way up to and including WW2, but with different tactical purposes in mind.

 

Most of the dirigibles used during WW2 were used as anti-aircraft defenses. The mooring cables would do a real number on any aircraft that ran into it, ere the deterent to bombers and fighters alike.

 

But I am willing to bet, that with trench warfare being the most common form of defense, and the still then common place mass frontal attack employed as the primary form of advance, that the hot air ballons were still being used for much the same purpose as during the American Civil war.

 

I could be wrong, but that is my opinion.

 

So SHOULD you use balloons in your game? I would enjoy seeing them there.

 

One question, where can I get a copy of your game ? Is it available for download ?

[+kendo353]

Hi Stryker7,

 

So SHOULD you use balloons in your game? I would enjoy seeing them there.

oh yes, there will definitely be observation balloons, and it looks like the occasional unmanned

"captive balloon" will also be ok. but i'm trying to find out when they were first used in the

anti-aircraft role that you described. WW2 pictures are full of them. Rosebud's site has 3 or

4 unmanned versions... but they seem to be going up in fields... not exactly protecting factories

or stuff on the ground. appreciate your thoughts on the matter, anyway.. cheers.

 

One question, where can I get a copy of your game ? Is it available for download ?

it's still being written. but when its finished, yes, it'll be available for free download.

[Smosh]

The only unmanned balloons I have read about were of decoy balloons that had the basket filled with explosives and detonated from the ground to destroy any attacking plane/s. I know they were heavily defended (AA) anyway but that would certainly come as a shock if attacking one

 

OK after typing that I found this http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/worldwarone/hq/wfront4_03.shtml

 

The War in the air was initially limited to observation. Kite balloons were used to great effect in this role. They were suspended from lorries by steel cables and could be winched up and down depending on poor weather conditions or any sign of enemy attack. More accurate than any moving aircraft, these balloons could also be used as decoys to destroy enemy aircraft. For example, when the enemy approached all but one of the balloons would be winched down. Instead of observers, the basket of the remaining balloon was filled with high explosives.

 

 

'The hero who dived on the balloon would be welcomed by Archie, flame throwers, and the bursting balloon itself.'

Cecil Lewis, First World War air ace

Don't know if that helps any? A small random chance that the balloon could take you with it would certainly spice up the game play while still being within the boundaries of being historically accurate!

Edited January 8, 2007 by Smosh

[+kendo353]

Don't know if that helps any?

it does indeed. thanks very much. it looks like i can have one or two unmanned balloons dotted about

the landscape, but not festooned all over the place in an anti-aircraft role (ala WW2).

 

A small random chance that the balloon could take you with it would certainly spice up the game play while still being within the boundaries of being historically accurate!

nice discovery. much appreciated. I imagine the flimsy planes will be blasted about quite a bit by the shockwave too. thanks for the suggestion, and the lookup. Even manned balloons could be detonated, if one assumes that the observer sets the fuses before they bale out. the DIF observers already bale out randomly, if they feel threatened.... so this would another nice random touch. thankyou.

 

 

ken

[Smosh]

I'm not sure on the distances that German and British observation balloons were spaced out along the front but observers could often see up to 40 miles on a good day so my guess would be 1 or 2 every 15 - 20 miles depending the activity on the front and the weather. I think they were usually kept anywhere from 1 - 3 miles behind the front line once again depending on activity and weather. They usually operated at heights between 1000 - 4000ft. I think if you have these as targets then they should be as well defended as was historically accurate.

 

This was especially risky as they were well guarded with AA guns, long-range machine guns and a fighter Screen. Getting to the balloon was easy, shooting it up was difficult and getting away was very difficult. It required good nerves, quick reactions, and an all round good pilot to fight their way through the defenses, hit the balloon before it is pulled down and then get away again. It was a rule of thumb with British pilots to never go after balloons below 1,000 feet, the AA and mg fire was too dangerous. The balloons could be pulled down very quickly as they were tethered to a motorized winch, so that once a fighter was spotted the balloon could be down in under a minute.

 

From all accounts getting a "sausage" and getting away with it really was something to be proud of.

 

After saying above about 1-2 every 15-20 miles I found this picture of 3 Drachen very close together. Could this be photographic evidence of one of the "fake" balloons being set up?

 

 

Here's a British one. What amazes me is the manpower needed just to get one in the air!

 

 

Even manned balloons could be detonated, if one assumes that the observer sets the fuses before they bale out

Not too sure about this idea.

 

Follow this link to read about Eddie Rickenbacker attacking balloons http://www.richthofen.com/rickenbacker/rick18.htm

You can actually read his whole book online. It's great!

Edited January 9, 2007 by Smosh

[+Gr.Viper]

Hm... balloons on a wench would great. Never seen such thing in any game yet. Would make balloon busting less of target practice and more of dangerous venture...

[+kendo353]

Hi Smosh, Hi Viper..

 

Not too sure about this idea.

just shooting from the cuff. it made me smile, because it fits in with some of the stupidly horrendous and life threatening things they get you to do in the army.

"Right son.... sit in this basket, on top of all this lovely explosive... and if you see an enemy plane bearing down on you, light the blue touchpaper and jump out sharpish".

 

from what i've gathered, balloon observers were issued with parachutes.

so it's not the baling out that would be unrealistic, but the detonation. it would

only ever occur on a small random chance... but you're right.... i'll consider it carefully.

i will definitely be having dummy balloons though, and winching them up and down

isn't hard to implement.

 

from the pictures i've seen.. a lot of people *were* needed to march the balloons into place,

(or hold them in winds?). but when they're in position, most of the groundcrew appear to be

just admiring the spectacle.

 

 

@ Viper

Never seen such thing in any game yet

RB3D had it? balloons would sink down to the ground pretty quickly if they spotted you.

there wasn't a cable connecting them to the earth... but it did *look* good. added a sense

of urgency to shooting them down.

 

cheers for the info, guys.

ken

[Smosh]

Yes RB3 had balloons. The only unhistorical thing about it was that they were directly above the front lines. I don't think the boys in the trenches would have been keen to gather round and help put one up like in the above pictures while the bullets were flying

 

My guess is that the majority of those helping put the balloons up would then become the AA gunners etc

 

BTW now you all know where the saying "When the balloon goes up" (implying impending doom or trouble) comes from.

[skyhook]

Red Baron was my favourite combat flight sim, and has yet to be replaced. First Eagles is a good effort, but currently lacks the breadth of scope, particularly in terms of the limited area of the front available. This may change with time, but we will have to wait and see.

[oxo]

great work kendo: things are getting very exciting.

[+kendo353]

things are getting very exciting.

cheers oxo... i'm having fun making it.

 

by popular request (and some grumbling) the Italian Front is included.

Campaign mode will allow you to fly as a Austro-Hungarian or Italian.

 

please *don't* ask for the eastern front... remember i'm just one person..

lol...

 

 

regards to all.

kendo

[Red Von Hammer]

Down in Flames looks better and better for each picture you post here Kendo! :D

Even though the graphics might not can be comparable with the newer games, I

still am looking VERY much forward to try it :D Keep up the excellent work Kendo :)

You`re doing great

 

Salute!

 

Red Von Hammer

[Smosh]

As long as this sim has atmosphere or "soul" as I like to call it I'll be hooked If you've played RB3D you'll know what I mean

[+Fates]

And now it's got it's own forum too.....

 

Cheers~

[Smosh]

And now it's got it's own forum too.....

 

Wicked.

 

Kendo can you check your Mail please.

Edited January 17, 2007 by Smosh

[+kendo353]

Hi everyone..

 

@ Dagger thanks for the category addition. much appreciated.

 

@ Red yeah, i understand what you're saying. but there is no way i can compete

with the "100 knobs in each cockpit" development teams. i chose openGL because i wanted

to emulate the airbrushed aviation art, and colour WW1 postcards that i enjoy very much.

 

nothing is finalised yet... texture quality can be bumped up, landscapes replaced... the

BV engine itself is quite capable of producing AAA.. it's a matter of how thinly i spread

myself between all of the tasks involved in getting it finished. i'm just one person, not a

team... so it's a balancing act, ya know?

 

i'm not making excuses... i know in some respects, the game does look "1996". but as i'm trying

to emulate 1914, i feel thats tolerable, if (as Smosh says) the game has atmosphere and soul. i

hope you'll enjoy it, anyway.

 

cheers..

ken

[Red Von Hammer]

Yeah that`s what I said man, If I didn`t make myself clear(In a good way:) ), I tried in all aspects, to say that I don`t care about the graphics, but the gameplay and athmosphere, and that your game looks promising :)

 

 

Salute!

 

RvH

[+kendo353]

yeah, no worries, Red. you were stating the obvious truth, and i was just explaining.

it's all good.

 

regards to you.

 

:yes:

[catch]

Hats off to you Kendo for undertaking this project. It looks great and I'm pleased you're concentrating on the early years / aircraft which has been sadly overlooked in favour of the "glamour" years and the "oh no not another DR1" syndrome. Snoopy has a lot to answer for.

 

I've been fascinated by vintage aircraft and the WW1 air war since I was a kid and I rarely fly any other sim but WW1 flightsims so people like you are like Gods to me. And in a sadly under-nourished genre it's encouraging to see people like you giving it a go. Obviously a passion for you as it is for me.

 

Bur now for the bad bit .... I have no talent as an artist, modder, FM specialist or anything like that. I'm just a leech that soaks up anything from this wonderful era .... so all I can do is wish you well and give you heaps of encouragement and hope like minded people (with talent) come to assist you because, from what you've shown to date, it is a VERY worthwhile project.

 

cheers,

catch.

[dhasdell]

Snoopy has a lot to answer for.

 

Your point is?

 

(Only joking )

[+kendo353]

don't laugh... but when i was a kid, i always wondered "who is this Red Baron he keeps going on about?".

which in turn, led to an interest in WW1 aviation. so comics *can* be educational, as well as entertainment.

 

cheers for the kind words, chaps. feedback (+ OR -), critique, suggestions always welcomed. i have not met

any coders interested in pitching in yet, but i've bumped into a lot of very nice people along the way. progress

has slowed a little, while i boff up on the underlying maths, but the game as a whole, is going well. cheers..

 

[Bulldog]

This is looking great Kendo.

 

Even though I've been busy with SF lately, WW1 has always been a favorite of mine, going back to my time in the old Dawn of Aces. Since then I've been hoping something new would come out that had that "feel" to it. This looks what I have been waiting for. Keep up the good work!

[catch]

LOL guys ....agree Snoopy is a great comic strip. Now this is giving away my age a tad but remember the Royal Guardsmen and the 60's hit Snoopy vs the Red Baron ..... "10, 20, 30, 40, 50 or more the bloody Red Baron was rollin up a score" ..... the word "bloody" was blipped out on Aussie radio at the time LOL. How times have changed !

[GabiLaser]

Some balloon pics, also here:

 

http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_War...oon/Balloon.htm

 

Good luck with the project!