My old X-36 USB has finally died :(

[+streakeagle 866]

Purchased around Nov 2000, this HOTAS served me long and well in Jane's sims (primarily USAF), Falcon 4.0, Aces High, Strike Fighters series, Xtreme Air Racing, Operation Flashpoint/Armed Assault, IL-2 series, LOMAC, etc. Over the years I only had to fix two things: POV hat needed to be adjusted to make good contact with switches (I wrapped the stem with black electrical tape) and replacing the molded connector from the throttle cable into the stick with a standard shell so that I could resolder the wires.

 

Just the other night, Windows suddenly stopped recognizing the stick. At first, I thought it was simply another cable problem with the USB connection, but even the gameport connection didn't work. Something in the internal logic went away. Now I am back to using my X-45 and I am looking at the possibility of getting an X-52 Pro. Hard to say goodbye to a stick that served me so long and well.

 

[edit]it is a small miracle... after banging on the casing and jamming the usb connector in and out a few times, it decided to come back to life today!!!

Edited June 14, 2007 by streakeagle

[JediMaster 451]

That's the way I felt when I upgraded my PC a couple of years back and couldn't use my gameport-equipped SWF22 FLCS/TQS/RCS anymore. The gameport on my Audigy worked fine, but when I got an X Fi which had none I found the gameport on my motherboard was crap. Spiking, jittering...

So, I have a Cougar now and the fact that it's not modded means I have to deal with things I never had problems with on my old setup. Can't feel the detent on the ANT wheel, stick centering too loose (so the stick actually "leans" in 2 positions, and one of them actually causes a tiny input)...

 

I wish there was a USB version of my SWF22 instead, it was superior to the Cougar despite being all plastic instead of metal.

[+streakeagle 866]

The idead behind the Cougar was great... the execution was horrible.

I understand if you have money to burn you can mod the Cougar into a pretty decent stick.

I thought about it since they are available in CompUSA for $250 (sometimes as low as $200).

But if I had more than $500 to spend on a joystick, then I would be happier building a custom B-8 stick to F-4 Phantom specs as I posted in my other thread...

 

Since I my son was born in November, spending just $200 on a surplus B-8 doesn't make sense especially when I still have a perfectly good stick.

I don't know when I will have the spare time and money to implement my ideas (ultimately I want to build an F-4 pit!).

 

The loss of the X-36 leaves me with an X-45 and an MS Sidewinder Precision Pro 2 USB.

There is no urgent need to buy anything at the moment.

If the X-45 fails, then I will be forking out some dough right away for either a CH hotas or X-52 Pro.

 

Despite all the good things people say about CH products, I am still leaning toward the Saitek stick.

I prefer the Saitek throttle setup.

The buttons, switches, sticks, rotary knobs, and rudder rocker are just they way I like them (unfortunately the X-52 series deleted the rudder rocker and changed some of the switches).

The joystick is very similar to a B-8, and I like the feel of the Saitek sticks.

The CH stick has the F-16 layout that I don't really like and the dual springs for x and y axis mess up the feel.

 

I don't know if I would like the X-52 Pro better than the X-45. Until the X-45 fails, I probably won't find out.

[BUFF 8]

Streak, have you tried removing the EEPROM?

Interesting comments though - my X36 USB is still going strong & the X45 in many ways looked to me as a slight backward step for the user. Unfortunately it's no longer supported by the latest Saitek drivers/software (along with my P8000) so won't be able to use the additional features that they are implementing.

 

Saitek are meant to be sending me an X52 Pro for review so I should be able to give you a direct X36>X52 Pro comparison if you can hang on.

[+streakeagle 866]

I haven't even opened it... though I intend to this weekend if I can make some time.

As for support in drivers, I found that if I installed the X-36 using an older driver that also supported the X-45 and then upgraded the driver/software for the X-45, the X-36 came along for the ride even though it was officially unsupported. Of course that is with the last generation of software. I never bothered to try the newest beta software since it sounded like support for the X-36 was really gone this time and because they don't have a tool for converting my profiles.

Aside from some stability issues, I really preferred the original Win98SE Saitek software: it allowed far more complex programming of the buttons and rotaries and activated the appropriate profiles automatically when the associated game started. Saitek's lack of proper software for Win2000/WinXP was one of the reasons I stayed with Win98SE for so long.

 

I agree, the X-45 was a step backwards, which finally drove me to fix the throttle cable on the X-36 and return it to being my primary stick.

However, now that I am back on the X-45, the only disadvantages beyond the looks and glowing lights that I can remember are:

1) the resistant to small movements by the stiff center spring, which I largely fixed by tie-wrapping the spring to reduce the tension.

2) the gun trigger periodically nees adjustment to function correctly (haven't had to this for quite awhile, but then I have been primarily using the X-36).

3) the lack of rubber suction cup feed, which Saitek solved a long time ago when it offered free sets to anyone who wanted them on their forum :)

 

There is one advantage to the X-45 over the X-36: the rudder rocker centers better.

On the X-36, the return to center differed significantly depending on whether you last applied left or right rudder.

So after applying rudder to the direction that didn't return to the calibration center, aircraft would drift until I remembered to tap the rudder in the opposite direction to get a good center.

The X-45 still does this, but somehow they deadbanded it (in software I presume?) so that the difference is very small (almost unnoticeable).

In fact, it is usually masked out by default deadband settings in games.

 

So, I can live with the X-45 and I still intend to use it as the guts of any future B-8/F-4 Phantom stick I attempt to make.

Edited June 14, 2007 by streakeagle

[+streakeagle 866]

I originally bought the X-36 because it was the best stick available off the shelf in Best Buy the day I decided to replace the problematic Top Gun Platinum.

I just briefly scanned the web looking for X-36s and stumbled onto this review which makes my arbitrary choice look like a great one:

http://www.epinions.com/content_33726631556

[BUFF 8]

Interesting link, I never knew that Seymour Powell did the exterior design.

 

I must admit that I'm keeping an eye cocked to see how long the Cougar goes on for.

I know that they just released Vista drivers/software for it but it seems to me that TM is going to be an also ran soon & we will be left with CH & Saitek for mass market HOTAS. There will still be cheap generic sticks available, Logis will still fail after 3 months plus a few small production/megabuck boutique setups.

 

Btw I don't know if you know but Saitek have apparently had a few unsolicited approaches enquiring about buying them out?

They've appointed a company to investigate their options.

[+streakeagle 866]

Eeek! I assume a Saitek buyout would mean restructuring and possibly the loss of HOTAS development and production.

I am still nervous about how the new AMD/ATi merger is going to pan out.

If AMD/ATi fails to remain competitive with Intel and NVidia, pc hardware consumers like us are going to suffer badly.

 

If Saitek and Thrustmaster fail, that would pretty much leave CH Products all alone on top for us flight simmers.

As long as CH doesn't take advantage of such a situation to cut costs by lowering quality and raise prices to take advantage of demand, that wouldn't be so bad.

But given that any company's ultimate objective is to maximize its profit, why wouldn't CH jack up their prices and/or cut their costs if they were a monopoly?

 

I really wish Thrustmaster had remained competitive. At one time they were the best.

By the time I started buying hardware, their stuff was junk.

The Cougar was their chance to clean up with the hard core jet jockeys.

The fact that Falcon 4.0 is still going strong should have helped them out a lot.

But long drawn out development turned out an overpriced and technically obsolete stick.

If the Cougar's quality and performance had just been comparable to CH, it might have become THE STICK to have despite its high initial price.

I find it funny that many die-hard Cougar fans eventually ditch it for a CH HOTAS rather than try the aftermarket upgrades.

 

Maybe I should buy a Cougar just to say I had one? I did like the feel of the one on display at my local CompUSA.

But I am spoiled by Saitek sticks which almost never need any calibration after initial installation without having to tweak/clean/replace pots.

If Thrustmaster had followed through by making plug-in sticks for different aircraft types including the classic B-8, I would have already bought a Cougar.

But alas, they took every step they could to turn off many potential customers and even lose many of the existing Cougar fans.

 

I wish some company would come along and give me exactly what I want at a price I can afford.

Until then, Saitek has been the best option for me... though I wonder how CH would compare since I have no first-hand experience.

[BUFF 8]

I wish some company would come along and give me exactly what I want at a price I can afford.

Until then, Saitek has been the best option for me... though I wonder how CH would compare since I have no first-hand experience.

Well, I have a CH Products Fighterstick/Pro Throttle/Pro Pedal setup & I've said it many times but I prefer the CH stick & the Saitek throttle (rotaries, button placement etc.).

Along with the review X52 Pro is coming a set of Saitek Pedals so it'll be interesting for me to see how they all compare.

I suspect that my ideal is an X52 with the internal improvements of the Pro but without the additional MFD features (but we'll see if I find a use for those) & the price rise.

 

Oh & something else for you (& 531_Ghost)

 

 

[+streakeagle 866]

I banged on my X-36 base with my hand a few times then plugged it in and out a few times... until it finally worked again!!!!!

 

The only sims I fly that would benefit from the throttle quadrant are LOMAC and Aces High...

If TK ever went a little more hard core permitting dual throttles for the F-4, I would get it in a heartbeat.

If TK would support external instruments/displays... I would be in heaven.

 

Since you obviously have both Saitek and CH sticks, what makes you prefer the CH stick to the Saitek?

The Saitek X-36/X-45 sticks fit my hand perfectly and I absolutely love the button/pov hat placement... like the modified Cobra B-8 with an POV extra hat.

The pinky switch is a good simulation for the nose-gear steering switch on the F-4 control stick.

The only switch missing from the Saitek is the extra one on the lefthand side of the pistol grip, but the extra ones on top provide better functionality.

 

The light pull on the X-36 used to allow me to maneuver very precisely when making small changes.

The X-45 has never allowed me to get that. With the spring loosened up a bit, it is ALMOST as good as the X-36.

[BUFF 8]

Since you obviously have both Saitek and CH sticks, what makes you prefer the CH stick to the Saitek?

The Saitek X-36/X-45 sticks fit my hand perfectly and I absolutely love the button/pov hat placement... like the modified Cobra B-8 with an POV extra hat.

The pinky switch is a good simulation for the nose-gear steering switch on the F-4 control stick.

The only switch missing from the Saitek is the extra one on the lefthand side of the pistol grip, but the extra ones on top provide better functionality.

I obviously have small hands/short fingers or something but with the X36 stick I find that if I'm comfortable up the top of the stick then my hand is above the rest & unsupported & not best placed for the pinky- shame that the extension on the X45 wasn't retrofittable.

The CH Fighterstick fits me better & has more hat/castle switches so ultimately more commands on the stick plus it looks a bit more realistic.

[+streakeagle 866]

I figured out why the stick failed: it was my throttle cable connector repair. Even with strain relief, the ground wire had wiggled its way into shorting one of the other wires (which has too much lead exposed thanks to my less than fantastic wire-stripping/soldering work. I opened the shell, observed the problem and moved the ground lead out of the way (for now until it decided to wiggle its way back).

 

As for the fit of the stick...my hand is just big enough to comfortably use the X-36 pinky switch. The X-45 pinky switch extender was the 2nd thing I removed after the fire button safety cover.

My hand barely touches the bottom guard... so it doesn't really provide any support, but that's okay with me.

[BUFF 8]

The X-45 pinky switch extender was the 2nd thing I removed after the fire button safety cover.

The fact that they made 1 says to me that I'm not alone in terms of fit

[JediMaster 451]

TM went downhill after it was sold to Guillemot. In the old Hoffman/Church days the place was tops. I had several FCS, a pro FCS, the T1 wheel, and the complete FLCS/TQS/RCS combo. Now I have the Cougar. I must say I had almost zero issues until my first FLCS was a few years old, in the late 90s. I sent it back to TM for repair/replacement like 5 times in a 2 year period for things like the keyboard part failing or wild spiking or so on.

 

Bob's SWF22 digital chips fixed most of that and I was fat and happy until gameports became obsolete.