Steel Tiger preview

[TeTeT]

Back to testing with the Steel Tiger campaign. An updated version is available: Steel Tiger

 

Some screenshots as appetizers:

 

Attack on a VC base camp close to Dak To:

 

 

 

 

A suspected artillery site has been detected north of the DMZ. Take out the AA:

 

 

[DukeIronHand]

Very cool.

 

Thanks much for your work on this. D/L'ing now.

[topcat II]

Not able to have this work as yet I have changed the name and have added the campaign still, Tetet can you let me know if I need anything else to have it work??

 

many thanks

[TeTeT]

Not able to have this work as yet I have changed the name and have added the campaign still, Tetet can you let me know if I need anything else to have it work??

 

Sorry for the long delay, I was quite busy lately. What problem are you exactly running into? Is the campaign listed? Can you start the campaign?

[topcat II]

Sorry for the long delay, I was quite busy lately. What problem are you exactly running into? Is the campaign listed? Can you start the campaign?

 

Welcome back I can,t seem to get the terrain to work I will try again with your latest and see what happens I will let you know. Thank You for your work on this!!!

[topcat II]

well Tetet I am closer than before it now starts to load then ctd I have everything in the terrain that at says it needs and I start from the campaign at I did not have the nations in the terrain and I question do the airfields need to be steeltiger also? Thank You for your help!!

[TeTeT]

Can you please check if the following files are in Terrain\VietnamSEA-SteelTiger:

 

VietnamSEA-SteelTiger.HFD

VietnamSEA-SteelTiger.INI

VietnamSEA-SteelTiger.TFD

VietnamSEA-SteelTiger_Movement.ini

VietnamSEA-SteelTiger_Targets.ini

VietnamSEA-SteelTiger_Types.ini

 

Also, can you check if a single player mission on the Steel Tiger map works?

[topcat II]

Can you please check if the following files are in Terrain\VietnamSEA-SteelTiger:

 

VietnamSEA-SteelTiger.HFD

VietnamSEA-SteelTiger.INI

VietnamSEA-SteelTiger.TFD

VietnamSEA-SteelTiger_Movement.ini

VietnamSEA-SteelTiger_Targets.ini

VietnamSEA-SteelTiger_Types.ini

 

Also, can you check if a single player mission on the Steel Tiger map works?

 

 

I will check thank You. Will let you know?

[topcat II]

I will check thank You. Will let you know?

 

 

Well no joy on any I am using the vietnam terrain should I use the DRV?? Also the map does allow in single player to show then will ctd. I also changed the maps to show steeltiger map 1 & 2 also changed the airfields to show steeltiger. Question on skins be a problem??

[TeTeT]

Well no joy on any I am using the vietnam terrain should I use the DRV?? Also the map does allow in single player to show then will ctd. I also changed the maps to show steeltiger map 1 & 2 also changed the airfields to show steeltiger. Question on skins be a problem??

 

No, use the stock VietnamSEA terrain, copy it to VietnamSEA-SteelTiger and modify according to the README. The airfields should not be affected. Can you try again from a clean install of WoV? On the skins, do campaigns on the regular map work?

[topcat II]

No, use the stock VietnamSEA terrain, copy it to VietnamSEA-SteelTiger and modify according to the README. The airfields should not be affected. Can you try again from a clean install of WoV? On the skins, do campaigns on the regular map work?

 

 

Will try thank for your help!!

[Czech6]

I haven't tried your Steel Tiger campaign, but maybe this weekend. How is the front line drawn? Here's an idea that has been bugging me about the Viet Nam campaign. I'm no campaign builder, and I only understand the basics from what I've read here, but what would happen in the Viet Nam campaign if the front line was drawn as semi-circles connecting to the sea or circles around the main South Viet Nam bases, like Da Nang or Chu Lai, and with a linear front line drawn between Thailand and Laos/Cambodia. Wouldn't this give the VC and NVA control of most of the area and force CAS and/or Armed Recon closer to the "enclave" bases? Can there be more than one front line?

[sparkomatic]

wait...no evild@mncommbuildings? Count me in!

[Czech6]

Is there anyway to draw the front lines, or can they only be entered as coordinates in the movement file?

[+Johan217]

Is there anyway to draw the front lines, or can they only be entered as coordinates in the movement file?

You define the frontline coordinates in the movement.ini file. This is the frontline you will see when the campaigns starts. As soon as a ground unit has successfully attacked a strategic node on the campaign map, the frontline will be updated automatically.

 

As far as I know you can only define one continuous frontline, so no circles around individual bases. Even if they would show up on the campaign map, they would be automatically redrawn for the second mission.

 

I only noticed this campaign just now, will try it tonight! I've been waiting for a good Vietnam campaign with working CAS missions :)

[Czech6]

I installed Steel Tiger on a separate WOV installed a couple of weekends back and tried it. Got CAS missions in Laos and some just over the DMZ as if the ground forces were pushing north. Nothing in S. Vietnam, much as TeTeT had noted.

 

If the front line has to be one continuous line, I wonder if it were drawn as a single line meandering around the DMZ and then cutting through the middle of S. Vietnam, halfway between the Gulf of Tonkin and the Laotian border, would that bring some of the CAS missions into S. Vietnam as the action would be closer to the American airbases? Would that generate any Armed Recon? I think I read somewhere that some Armed Recon and Ship Strike missions occured if they were closer to the base.

 

I've also been reading with interest the forum thread about the effects on the BOB campaign by changing the front line around. I think there's a lot more to the front line setting than just an object on the map.

[+Johan217]

I installed Steel Tiger on a separate WOV installed a couple of weekends back and tried it. Got CAS missions in Laos and some just over the DMZ as if the ground forces were pushing north. Nothing in S. Vietnam, much as TeTeT had noted.

 

If the front line has to be one continuous line, I wonder if it were drawn as a single line meandering around the DMZ and then cutting through the middle of S. Vietnam, halfway between the Gulf of Tonkin and the Laotian border, would that bring some of the CAS missions into S. Vietnam as the action would be closer to the American airbases? Would that generate any Armed Recon? I think I read somewhere that some Armed Recon and Ship Strike missions occured if they were closer to the base.

 

I've also been reading with interest the forum thread about the effects on the BOB campaign by changing the front line around. I think there's a lot more to the front line setting than just an object on the map.

Changing the frontline alone won't give you any armed recon missions, unless you have proper convoy routes set up in movement.ini (unfortunately I don't really know how to do this). CAS missions are only generated if there is a ground offensive going on, i.e. if a ground unit is actually moving from 1 (friendly) strategic node to another (enemy). Together with the target ini file, the frontline defines which side a strategic node is on (friendly/enemy).

 

I think the only way to get proper CAS missions in South Vietnam is if you have an enemy offensive reach a strategic node on that part of the map. For the game it will seem as if red forces have overrun the map, but there may be ways to cover this up (e.g. by not having a front line visibly displayed on the map). Definitely worth investigating! :)

[Czech6]

Changing the frontline alone won't give you any armed recon missions, unless you have proper convoy routes set up in movement.ini (unfortunately I don't really know how to do this). CAS missions are only generated if there is a ground offensive going on, i.e. if a ground unit is actually moving from 1 (friendly) strategic node to another (enemy). Together with the target ini file, the frontline defines which side a strategic node is on (friendly/enemy).

 

I think the only way to get proper CAS missions in South Vietnam is if you have an enemy offensive reach a strategic node on that part of the map. For the game it will seem as if red forces have overrun the map, but there may be ways to cover this up (e.g. by not having a front line visibly displayed on the map). Definitely worth investigating! :)

 

Understood. I was assuming that TeTeT had already built in the nodes and routes in the Steel Tiger campaign. That's a big part of the problem with the original WOV campaign, no ground war. It was noted in this thread that CAS missions were occuring in Laos with this campaign, but none in S. Vietnam, so I think that feature is now implemented. I was suggesting that moving the front line closer to the American bases would bring the missions in closer and activate missions in S. Vietnam. Somewhere I remember reading that if the targets were set up correctly the CAS and Armed Recon missions would occur if the targets were close in (actually I think this thread referred to anti-shipping strikes).

 

I've installed Middle East Wars and it has a long, snake-like front line that goes from coast to coast (almost). Maybe a front line like this in WOV instead of the short, single line at the DMZ, which is not tied to any feature on the inland side.

[+Johan217]

Understood. I was assuming that TeTeT had already built in the nodes and routes in the Steel Tiger campaign. That's a big part of the problem with the original WOV campaign, no ground war. It was noted in this thread that CAS missions were occuring in Laos with this campaign, but none in S. Vietnam, so I think that feature is now implemented. I was suggesting that moving the front line closer to the American bases would bring the missions in closer and activate missions in S. Vietnam. Somewhere I remember reading that if the targets were set up correctly the CAS and Armed Recon missions would occur if the targets were close in (actually I think this thread referred to anti-shipping strikes).

 

I've installed Middle East Wars and it has a long, snake-like front line that goes from coast to coast (almost). Maybe a front line like this in WOV instead of the short, single line at the DMZ, which is not tied to any feature on the inland side.

The continuous frontline is already there (also in stock WOV campaigns), it's just not displayed on the map.

To display the frontline completely, change the lines to StartShow= and

EndShow= in VietnamSEA_movement.ini

[FrontLine]
FriendlyBase=Saigon
EnemyBase=Hanoi
Position[001]=0.0,854000.0
Position[002]=250000.0,852000.0
Position[003]=386000.0,680000.0
Position[004]=434000.0,648000.0
Position[005]=504000.0,566000.0
Position[006]=526000.0,556000.0
Position[007]=570000.0,576000.0
Position[008]=540000.0,640000.0
Position[009]=556000.0,674000.0
Position[010]=608000.0,674000.0
Position[011]=702000.0,598000.0
Position[012]=1000000.0,598000.0
StartShow=1
EndShow=7

 

Actually I don't know if armed recon missions work in campaigns. Most people seem to say they don't. At least I've never seen any in the many addon campaigns I tried.

 

CAS missions will only work as long as one force has enough supplies to move ground units on the map. Maybe playing with the supplies settings can bring some more ground activity. But there will always be the limit where the enemy runs short on supplies when the player flies a few successful missions. The static "VC camps" are probably the only way to simulate an ongoing ground war.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Johan217

[+Johan217]

After playing this campaign a bit, I had this idea: how about placing a static smoke marker near the VC camps to simulate a FAC marking the enemy's position?

 

For testing I copied the strategic nodes, groundunits and static camps from the SteelTiger campaign into the stock WOV campaigns. It'll take some experimenting with the supplies settings and strategic priorities, but it should be possible to have an ongoing ground war, with sporadic offensives in the Rolling Thunder campaign.

[jodandawg]

simply awesome!! keep up the great work!! i wish i had the talent to do terrains.

[TeTeT]

After playing this campaign a bit, I had this idea: how about placing a static smoke marker near the VC camps to simulate a FAC marking the enemy's position?

 

Excellent idea, makes them a bit more exposed. But please keep in mind that the camps are only around when they are targets. If you're scheduled for a strike Downtown, there will be usually no units around.

 

For testing I copied the strategic nodes, groundunits and static camps from the SteelTiger campaign into the stock WOV campaigns. It'll take some experimenting with the supplies settings and strategic priorities, but it should be possible to have an ongoing ground war, with sporadic offensives in the Rolling Thunder campaign.

 

I did test different supply levels and they do have an effect on the offensives. But I did run out of time before I found a very good setting. I had planned to create a much smaller campaign around Da Nang to focus on this aspect and see if it would be possible to get an attack going every few months.

[+Johan217]

But please keep in mind that the camps are only around when they are targets. If you're scheduled for a strike Downtown, there will be usually no units around.

Not really a problem. In fact It may even help the illusion that there is a full war going on when you see a puff of smoke here and there, even if there is nothing else.

 

I did test different supply levels and they do have an effect on the offensives. But I did run out of time before I found a very good setting. I had planned to create a much smaller campaign around Da Nang to focus on this aspect and see if it would be possible to get an attack going every few months.

From my experience, enemy ground offensives easily grind to a stop after the player has flown a number of successful missions. You'll probably need to maximise the supply level and supply rate for NVietnam, definitely give them SupplyForOffensive=60 or even lower, and at the same time decrease the supplies and morale for US.

 

The problem is that once the offensive stops, it is impossible for the campaign builder to predict if and when it will restart. But you can give ground units different start dates, so that they appear at intervals. In your example you could set ground units to appear at different dates and on different strategic nodes, each node leading to Da Nang.

[Czech6]

From my experience, enemy ground offensives easily grind to a stop after the player has flown a number of successful missions. You'll probably need to maximise the supply level and supply rate for NVietnam, definitely give them SupplyForOffensive=60 or even lower, and at the same time decrease the supplies and morale for US.

 

Good idea, although if US supplies are reduced too much, would they face an overrun too soon?

 

The problem is that once the offensive stops, it is impossible for the campaign builder to predict if and when it will restart. But you can give ground units different start dates, so that they appear at intervals. In your example you could set ground units to appear at different dates and on different strategic nodes, each node leading to Da Nang.

 

That would probably have some effect and mimic RL as there would be a continuous stream of units over time. Would that require that additional units be added to the campaign file to maintain this supply of units?

 

Good find on turning on the Front Line locations. I set it to see all the locations and now see that it goes to the map edge.

 

I still think that wrapping the front line closer in would have some effect. I would like to see it go south down along the Thailand/Laos/Cambodia border and then back up north through S. Vietnam, meandering in and out from the coast to create enclaves around the major bases like Saigon, Da Nang, Pleiku, and Khe Sanh; then back across the DMZ and up to Yankee Station.

 

Is the only way to set the points for the front line by trial and error coordinates in the Movement file?

[Czech6]

This is what I had in mind for the front line:

 

Edited February 9, 2008 by Czech6