Moving forward ....

[+peter01]

Well, firstly have to say I haven't had played many missions or any campaign in Expansion Pack yet.

 

But what you are describing does not seem to be what I was getting at about in optimising the AI for dogfighting, and the effect this has on ai formation flying. And optimising will probably mean they keep up in formation better anyway, to be honest, its just how they look, if you like, in doing this. Autopilot for player isn't effected (level flight function is different, could have porpoising).

 

For example, the N28 in the example pic, isn't "optimised" for dogfighting, the ai parameters I think are reasonably standard, it isn't necessary to improve, its good enough. Its mainly the ZnB'ers that I'd do differently.

 

And don't think anything I have done effects formations as such in any case - there are seperate ai paramaters which I never fiddle with, there is a formation.ini. and there is the code of course.

 

So, is it just these FMs or TKs too? I don't think this happened before the expansion pack much?

[+peter01]

Ok, have some more thoughts about this.

 

I mentioned previously that TK has "masked" some ai issues. This could be the problem, if the problem wasn't there pre-Expansion Pack. What he masked, rather than fixing (probably not an issue for his other games :)), is ai porpoising.

 

I suspect he did this for a number of reasons - people raising it before, of course, and additionally, he has given some of the planes in this set more elevator authority, and decreased pitchdampening (which is good, planes feel better, but its one means of reducing porpoising). The latter two increase porpising all other things being equal.

 

Now, he has changed the ai parameters, the code etc, so can't be certain, and at work so can't test. In any case, I don't use autopliot for testing or in game so could you try please. I'd guess there would be some improvement.

 

In N28, in [AIData] section change the line (which is also standard for TKs planes in AircraftObject.ini)

 

PitchForVerticalVelocity=-0.034

 

to

 

PitchForVerticalVelocity=-0.16

 

If this does improve things somewhat, then there are other parameters that will help too.

Edited December 3, 2007 by peter01

[+Tailspin]

Frankly, I think both the Auto Pilot and Wing Leveler options have been hosed since the EP (TK's doing). For some reason all planes climb steadily while on wing leveler. Before the EP planes on wing leveler flew straight and level with no climb whatsoever. The AI seems to have more trouble with formations (at least while on auto pilot the N28 shown in the pic is the most extreme I've seen so far) than before. Don't get me wrong here, the previous version of AI "formation flying" didn't bug me at all. However in the screenshot there are 3200+ feet difference in altitude. Thats a little harder to ignore. Didn't mean to be b*tchin' or to insinuate you did anything. I just hoped you could fix it.

[+Tailspin]

Ah, OK. I just noticed your other post. Thx, I'll try it out.

[+peter01]

Tailspin, I think this would even work better in terms of AI keeping up.... replace both [FlightControl] and [AIData] sections. let me know how it goes...

 

 

 

[FlightControl]

StallSpeed=17.70

CruiseSpeed=46.12

ClimbSpeed=38.34

CornerSpeed=47.93

MaxG=3.70

MaxSpeedSL=54.58

MachLimit=0.160

PitchDamper=0.45

RollDamper=0.0

YawDamper=0.0

GunBoresightAngle=0.0

 

[AIData]

AileronDeltaRoll=1.6

AileronRollRate=-1.3

ElevatorDeltaPitch=2.2

ElevatorPitchRate=-0.15

ThrottleDeltaSpeed=0.1

ThrottleVelocity=-0.12

MaxPitchForAltitude=30.0

MinPitchForAltitude=-20.0

PitchForThrottle=0.1

PitchForAltitude=0.012

PitchForVerticalVelocity=-0.16

RollForHeading=2.0

RollForHeadingRate=-1.8

MinRollHeading=180.0

MaxRollForHeading=180.0

PitchForRoll=0.15

FormationSpeedForPosition=0.95

FormationSpeedForRate=0.45

GunnerFireChance=90

GunnerFireTime=2.0

GunnerAimOffset=0.0050

MaxRollCombat=90.0

MaxPitchCombat=90.0

MaxRollFormation=20.0

FormationRollForPosition=0.001

FormationRollForVelocity=0.1

RollForGunAttack=2.0

RollForGunAttackRate=-2.2

RudderForGunAttack=1.4

RudderForHeading=1.4

RudderForYawRate=-1.4

RudderForSideslip=3.8

 

More generally, thinking back, autopilot has always been an issue. The autopilot flies the same flight model as the ai but is not "restricted" by formation flying parameters as are the wingmen, for keeping formation etc. The ai pilot just goes flat out, and it may be worse now then before?

 

Perhaps better not to use autopilot too much? I don't - I fly, slowing down at times to allow ai to keep up (now, that is realistic), then using waypoint commands. i do like to use wing leveller tho at times and that can be a problem, not for ai keeping up, but at times porpoising.

 

Now had more time to consider, the dogfight ai parameters have nothing to do with this auto stuff at all, actually the above mods, and suspect it will make it a lot better for both dogfighting AND formation flying - they allow the ai to use elevators to climb better. Trouble is always compromises. The ai will go up and down, porpoise (not the autopliot plane) etc. Thats the tradeoff.

 

I don't think TK will fix these things - they are not necessary in his other games (faster planes, less pitch, lots of pitch dampening is fine for smooth planes), and he has gone to some lengths to mask it in the EP so you'd assume if it was easily done, he would have done it. But someone should raise it with him.

Edited December 4, 2007 by peter01

[+peter01]

Also the planes your doing alot to are the addon planes and TK shouldnt affect them as much as his own perhaps.

 

Like I said .... hard to see the future so If you have invested the work I say put em out and let get to playing them 8)

Yep, spot on Firecage.

 

Okay, now decided, this is what i'll upload....and only to the forum at this time. Maybe tonight.

 

Thanks to Aladar, EmID, Monty and the A-Team for the great models. It'll be good to have them in this new game

 

And I'll take a chance, and say, you guys are in for a treat. Anyway, I like them.

 

Redid the Fe2b and Fe2c, and major work on N27. Also now included N27 variants, all slightly different.

 

New FMs are Pup, Tripe, Dh2, Walfisch, Halberstadt D3, N24, N24bis, N11, N16, N17. These are my latest efforts, but can still be improved. Haven't done N17 variants (just time issue), but Christian, if you want, can use this N17 FM and post variants.

 

Also for 1916-17 are the Albatros D1, D2, D3 160hp - need this for some opposition. Yeah lots of Albs and Nieups!!

 

From a 3D model perspective, the D1 and D2, are based on TKs Alb Dva model, and the Alb D3 is based on TKs Alb D3 model. Included in zip are the ini files - you just need to copy the AlbDva and AlbD3 folders and rename them.

 

From a FM basis, the D1 and D2 are really TKs Dva/Dv FMs, with dimension/physical changes, but feel just like TKs original Dva/Dv FMs. I did this as I liked the FM, and had to change the actual Dv/Dva FMs for performance/consistency reasons. The Alb D3 is similar , ie, based on TKs AlbD3 FM, but its more different.

 

I'll see how it goes with the other mods to TKs planes, but given he will change them probably, and AI issues, perhaps best not to confuse it all at this time by making these available.

Edited December 4, 2007 by peter01

[+peter01]

1916_17_Beta_v1.0_FMs_for_Expansion_Pack.zip

 

the fms are in the "Aircraft" folder directory, so you can just drag and drop, if you already have all the models (and folders)

 

and remember for following planes to copy folders, then rename the copied folders before installing

 

that is copy

 

"AlbatrosD5a" folder, rename "AlbatrosD1"

 

"AlbatrosD5a" folder, rename "AlbatrosD2"

 

"AlbatrosD3" folder, rename "AlbatrosD3_160"

 

"Fe2b" folder, rename "Fe2c"

[Barkhorn1x]

Thank you, thank you.

[+Tailspin]

Thanks Peter. I'll try that out when I get a chance. Due to an illness in the family I'll be very busy with RL concerns and probably won't be posting much.

[+christian59]

excellent works

 

thank you one more time