maybe you already had this discussion...

[sparkomatic 7]

hey, so anyone besides me remember the Transformers 1986 movie and care to compare / contrast it with the Transformers 2007 version?

[TX3RN0BILL 3]

Well, let's just say that Hasbro learned the lesson and that in the new movie, they didn't have ol' Optimus die but I think the movies don't have anything in common - I think such thoughts should hold out until we've gotten the chance of the two remaining movies (the next movie is supposedly in the works, as a script supposedly having been "leaked" out), since I think the producers saw the blockbuster hit the 2007 movie was, and actors already having stated their availability for the completion of the trilogy...

 

But, with regards to TF lore, the '86 movie sucked big time because IMHO Transformers stopped being good with the movie. About almost all the old cast was wiped out in the movie, which was a shame. Galvatron was ridiculous compared to Megatron, which had sort of an evil "presence" no matter what he did (hehe, even when he was in a drunk stupor in the episode about the heart of cybertron). Skywarp and Thundercracker had their own personalities, especially Skywarp, which were of alot more story value than Scourge ever was, then again he gained alot more standing becoming Cyclonus... As far as the Autobots go, there really were no replacements for Wheeljack, Brawn and the others, whilst even Blaster was turned into somewhat of a comical relief figure (he got an acute case of "rhyme-itis" he never got rid of and that effectively ruined him, after the movie) - and Perceptor got perceptibly boring, as shown by Ultra-Magnus only too often. Not to speak of the most irritable transformer ever called Wheelie. The only good episode after the movie was "Only Human", featuring good old Cobra Commander, stating that they didn't make terrorists the way they used to - and apparently, transformers neither. Oh well, if the series had anything in common with the movie, I would say that the series showed that Gold Bug's face was more close to what the 2007's Bumblebee would end up with than the original, since they didn't use any G1 vehicles at all for the movie... On an interesting note, the movie had the error of Devastator actually having been the decepticon "Brawl", and the writers warned the director twice about that mistake - don't know why they didn't correct it, but if it had been corrected, that would have made the entire decepticon cast with names starting with the letter "B" save Frenzy, Starscream and the old Buckethead Megatron...

[sparkomatic 7]

I have to agree that the series went pathetic after the movie release...especially Galvatron...I liked him in the movie, when he waxed Starscream (finally...and Leonard Nimoy's voice), but the writing was along the lines of Dora the Explorer.

 

Then when they brought Optimus back in like the last season...lame...and the episode with the vampire-monster thing and changing them into zombies...how can a robot be a zombie? And count me in the "I hate Wheelie" club as well...what were they thinking.

 

The Junkicons and Quinticons were cool, but not in the series...

 

And Rodimus was no replacement for prime

 

It was like after the movie an entirely different company was in charge...but then so much of that happened to GI Joe as well, but that is a different discussion entirely.

 

I was very happy with T 2k7 in that they went in their own direction, didnt try to follow the old storylines (except giant space robots fight, crash on earth, fight)

 

And it had Megan Fox...

 

And it had Megan Fox

 

And it...just kidding...it was way better than I thought it would be though, especially after the hatchet-job that was done on Spider Man...and the Hulk

[TX3RN0BILL 3]

Yep, it had Megan FoxXX...

 

*sigh*

 

But I tell you one thing, if Peter Cullen hadn't voiced Optimus Prime, I bet none of us could state: "Hey - this movie really IS Transformers!" There's alot going for Optimus Prime's voice. Talking more on voices, I found it an extremely bad idea of having Bumblebee voiced in an almost british-accented english, especially after the pretty-much-american-sounding radio cues... Strangely, the more british-type english makes Ironhide sound a bit like Perceptor, which I also find a little tasteless... like, since they didn't use non-american cars to feature the autobots, why did they end up using non-american-sounding dialects?! It's not as if Optimus had to stand out of the crowd even on the vocal level - he does that anyway. Hugo Weaving's lines are also too cheesy for Megatron, rather more something that Galvatron would say ("I smell you, boy!" - Like, wtf? And the rest of the dialogue on the roof sounded really like Agent Smith and not like Megatron...) .

 

Well, the sequel is supposed to feature Soundwave. I wonder how he's going to end up like, both in shape and in voice...

Edited January 28, 2008 by TX3RN0BILL

[JediMaster 451]

Hasbro didn't have a clue when it made the 86 film. It was supposed to wipe out the G1 characters and intro new ones for the upcoming G2 toy release, that's all. They had no idea people cared as much as they did.

I think Arcee might be in the sequel, too, as she was originally going to be in the first.

[sparkomatic 7]

Ah, if they didnt have Peter Cullen, it would have been ugly, period. I mean life goes on without Frank Wheeler, but Cullen is Optimus.

 

Yeah, I was thinking the whole English accent thing was a toss to Lucas and his preference for English accents, maybe it is like supposed to make us think its art or high theatre...I mean as much as giant robots from outer space can be threatre...

 

But again, let me emphasize that I like Megan Fox's character...she was believable and took the role so well...not the typical hollywood I am woman, but rather the true hero...that scene where she takes Bumblebee off in a wrecker (that she hot wired) was so cool...no whining, just business...reminded me of the Dust Off pilots in Viet Nam, heroes every one

 

Good point about '86 being marketing not story telling...obviously the Japanese were not in charge of the movie...man what if they had and it was more of a funky anime storyline instead...actually sounds cool

[JediMaster 451]

Well, the first SW films were all made in England, so other than a few key roles cast in the US, the rest were cast in the UK. However, not all Imperials had the accent. Recall the "TK421, why aren't you at your post?" guy among others.

[sparkomatic 7]

Wasnt one of the reasons is that Lucas hated dealing with the Unions at the time? Like how he was in "trouble" because he famously refused to start the movie with the obligatory opening credits (among other issues)

 

I remember he made a remark after the pre-quels were started when someone asked why the Death Star took 20 years, one of the reasons he gave was "Unions"

[JediMaster 451]

Yeah, the Director's Guild fined him and Kershner big time for ESB, so he resigned from it. That meant he couldn't ask Spielberg to direct ROTJ (his original plan), so he got that other Marquand guy to do it. However, Lucas pretty much directed half of that one anyway.

 

However, all that trouble was post-ESB release, so by then those choices had been made.

[sparkomatic 7]

ESB...one of my favorite movies of all time...it was near - perfect...right up there with "Shichinin no samurai"

[TX3RN0BILL 3]

But again, let me emphasize that I like Megan Fox's character...she was believable and took the role so well...not the typical hollywood I am woman, but rather the true hero...

 

Actually, I think she did ok, but she was chosen for her beauty talent, that much was admitted in the DVD's extra content, although she definitely was everything the director could have hoped for. The fact that they picked Shia LaBeuf to play as the geeky moronic kid who wins the lottery in many ways (first a car, then a girl, then he gets to save mankind), was also adequate - though I don't like him very much, he also played his role well. Unfortunately, John Turturro was a bit underused I think, they could have gotten more out of him, he has the potential to be alot more cool than comical as he was in the movie. Jon Voigt though performed his usual excellence.

 

And whilst I agree that Megan Fox is hot, I wouldn't dismiss Rachael Taylor, who unfortunately ONLY performed her role as SMART blonde - she's beautiful as well and I hope for her return...

[JediMaster 451]

Maybe you didn't hear her normal voice in the English release, but her accent was annoyingly thick. She didn't say "life" but something more like "loife" for instance. Plus, I didn't buy the "super smart super hot girl with nose piercing" idea. It's trying so hard to be anti-stereotype that it IS a stereotype, albeit one you only see in the movies!

[TX3RN0BILL 3]

Well nobody said Maggie (Rachael's character) was american so I don't mind her british accent either (it's actually australian or something IIRC the DVD's extra, though don't quote me on it), but the Autobots having british accent when 1. they're american cars, not international ones anymore and 2. none of their voices was british-sounding in the cartoon series - that is just not right.

 

But Rachael Taylor... well, she was chosen for her beauty just like Megan Fox, and I hope we get to see more of their beauty in the sequel!!!

[JediMaster 451]

Yeah, that's the other thing I see in movies like this and Mission Impossible that irritates me. You know how hard it is for a foreign national to get a Secret clearance? It's nigh-on impossible. For a TS or TS-SCx clearance??? Completely impossible.

[sparkomatic 7]

about as possible as hiding a giant robot from outer space in the Hoover Dam...been there, Magatron was not...now flying saucer yes, Megatron no

[TX3RN0BILL 3]

Well if the SecDef didn't even know of it's existance, I have this craaazy idea that they might have kept it hidden from even you, Sparky...

[sparkomatic 7]

SecDef is a politician...after reading my posts, do you really think we would trust those lying b@st@srds with anything? I remember reading that even FDR was "screened" after some rather important information was found in his wastebasket...

[Longestpants 1]

This movie had waaaaay to much people time. In the next film, that should be eliminated. Like, max 10 minutes total human time, and the rest is Transformer asskickery. However, this movie may be ruined by Bay and his quite mistaken opinion that he has good ideas ever. And I quote, from Wikipedia,

 

"Before Transformers was released, Bay expressed interest in an aircraft carrier character, while producer Tom DeSanto was interested in the Dinobots, Constructicons, and Soundwave."

 

nooo.

[sparkomatic 7]

well...when has a sequel gone well? matrix...die hard...smokey and the bandit...star trek...jaws...gremlins...spiderman...

 

seeing a pattern? there was one that I know, Empire Strikes Back...cant think of another sequel better than the first

[Longestpants 1]

well...when has a sequel gone well? matrix...die hard...smokey and the bandit...star trek...jaws...gremlins...spiderman...

 

seeing a pattern? there was one that I know, Empire Strikes Back...cant think of another sequel better than the first

 

Temple of Doom was as good as Raiders. The Iron Mask was just as much movie as The Three Musketeers. Rocky II was the only worthwhile sequel.

 

I can only think of sequels that were on par with the original, but you're right, there has never been a sequel better than the original.

[TX3RN0BILL 3]

Actually, I preferred Die Hard 2 over Die Hard, and I also think that Aliens was better than Alien - and both movies were IMHO the best of their "quattrology" so far. Temple of Doom I didn't like as much as the others, but I bet I'll end up loving the upcoming Indy movie best...

 

Back on topic, Longestpants, don't know if you've read the leaked script for the sequel, but IIRC it will feature both an aircraft carrier AND Soundwave. Though, would be cool if Bay would assume he'd made a mistake in calling Brawl Devastator in the first movie, and made an appearance of the Constructicons including the massive "Gestalt" Devastator - but if the script will be what the movie will be, I guess we'll just have to hope for the last movie of the trilogy for that wish to come true...

[JediMaster 451]

Terminator 2? Nuff said!

 

As for Transformers, it was budget that kept the robot fight scenes to a minimum. He shot that film for $150m and by all rights it should have cost at least 50% more than that. However, it was an unknown...would it draw crowds? The studios would not bank on betting more than that. Bay has said the sequel will get a larger budget thanks to the first's success and that there will be more robot time on screen.

[Longestpants 1]

Actually, I preferred Die Hard 2 over Die Hard, and I also think that Aliens was better than Alien - and both movies were IMHO the best of their "quattrology" so far. Temple of Doom I didn't like as much as the others, but I bet I'll end up loving the upcoming Indy movie best...

 

Back on topic, Longestpants, don't know if you've read the leaked script for the sequel, but IIRC it will feature both an aircraft carrier AND Soundwave. Though, would be cool if Bay would assume he'd made a mistake in calling Brawl Devastator in the first movie, and made an appearance of the Constructicons including the massive "Gestalt" Devastator - but if the script will be what the movie will be, I guess we'll just have to hope for the last movie of the trilogy for that wish to come true...

 

I guess you're right.

 

Now, on more pressing topics, I always preferred the original Die Hard. In the later ones, he was an established hero, an icon, like Bat Man. He was the guy. In the first, however, he was just a guy. He was some random guy, who happens to be a cop, who got caught up in this situation, just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time (or the right place at the right time, if you're like me). This element of anonymity, that he wasn't some "Flash Gordon to the rescue", a dashing crusader; rather just a nobody who has to work to survive and kill the bad guy, is what attracted me to it. Nobody expects him to be the hero; that's why people loved Air Force One.

 

Terminator 2? Nuff said!

 

As for Transformers, it was budget that kept the robot fight scenes to a minimum. He shot that film for $150m and by all rights it should have cost at least 50% more than that. However, it was an unknown...would it draw crowds? The studios would not bank on betting more than that. Bay has said the sequel will get a larger budget thanks to the first's success and that there will be more robot time on screen.

 

You have a good point, why spend so much money on a movie if you don't know if anyone will go to see it? I think that's one of the reasons that The Shadow (1994, Alec Baldwin, look it up on imdb) bombed, they spent $60 mil, and nobody knew what The Shadow was.

 

Yes, the expensive CGI is pretty much the only stumbling block to an awesome action movie.

 

EDIT: Sorry about the long post...

Edited January 30, 2008 by Longestpants

[JediMaster 451]

Here was my MAJOR problem with Die Hard 2---the entire premise! You can NOT strand airlines in orbit over an airport in DC!! They could GLIDE to half a dozen other airports in the area easily! What dumbass pilot would just sit up there and worry about running out of gas?

For one thing, no plane carries enough extra fuel to loiter for hours, they take as much as they need plus a reserve. If they can't land within 15 mins of arrival at their destination, you divert.

I once took a flight from Orlando to Reagan Int'l...but as we got close Reagan was temporarily closed due to a severe thunderstorm. We turned and landed at Dulles. From 5000 ft you can see both airports if you're between them with ease. They were going to bus us over, but then Reagan cleared up. So, they had to refuel the plane to fly the handful of miles to Reagan! That's right, there wasn't enough just sitting in the tanks to do it.

 

THAT is why I dislike DH2. I like them in the order DH, DH4, DH3, DH2.

[sparkomatic 7]

Solid points, all around...except putting Die Hard 3 on anything but toilet paper...come on...swung from the golden gate INTO the mast/iron girder whatever and got a "splinter"...was blown out of a tunnel into the air like 5 meters to land on the road and then stood up...

 

Horrible...I did like the first one though, especially the antagonist...

 

Hey, did I mention Spider-Man?