F-104G Starfighter

[Stwa 18]

I am just now getting around to the F-104G Starfighter in WOE. To that end I have tied it to all the F-4F squadrons in the game since JG 71,74 and JBG 36 used Starfighters prior to the F-4F. JBG 35 used the Fiat G.91, but I set them up for Starfighters as well, just for fun. At some point I would also like to set up Belgium, Dutch, and Danish squadrons, as well as German JBG 31-34 squadrons.

 

Its amazing that the F-104 model is so much fun and looks so good in the sim. I believe it was created around the 2003 time-frame. Anyway I have a few questions that I have not been able to answer for myself. I have used to wiki to get a good list of users/squadrons.

 

1. The German Camo included is named "German Tactical Camoflauge", but I was wondering if the was the "Norm 62". I have seen references to "Norm 62" scheme in some photos, but I wonder if it really existed, and if so, does the TW F-104G camo represent it, or is it just fictional?

 

2. I used the exisiting WOE Squadron Patch decals for the 4 German Squadrons JG 71,74 and JBG 35,36. I created my own Squadron Name decals, just following the example included in SFP1, but I was wondering if someone has already created Patch decals for JBG 31-34? I know SFP1 has a decal for JBG 31.

 

3. Also, I was planning on using the USAF Silver skin, for other nationalities, like Belguim, etc.. I was hoping this skin would be close enough, but was wondering if others felt the same way.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2008 by Stwa

[+Dave 2,322]

ajunaidr made a great F-104G. And others.

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...um=10&st=10

 

Then if you look here.

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...um=10&st=60

 

Starting with the skins I did, and I am not trying to blow my own horn, I just dont know which F-104's the previous ones work on. I just know mine. Anyway Stwa, there is alot of F-104G skins, a few TF-104G skins as well. Have fun.

[Badfrank 5]

Norm 62 or Norm 72?

 

F-104G Norm 72

[Stwa 18]

Thanks for the help, I will definately check everthing out.

 

I have decided on the 349th and 350th squads for the Belgium F-104s, because I already have the F-16A from the Mirage Factory, that I adapted a bit for WOE, and it is already tied to these 2 squadrons.

 

I think these squads were based at Beauvechain. I would like to find out if I can add an airbase to the existing GermanyCE Map for this base.

[Stwa 18]

Norm 62 or Norm 72?

 

F-104G Norm 72

 

 

I am not sure, becuase I am not an expert at all on this subject.

 

I have seen references, at several sites to NORM 62, but so far no artwork that depicts its pattern.

 

See --> http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/ja104.htm

Edited March 17, 2008 by Stwa

[Badfrank 5]

PM ravenclaw_007, maybe he can answer your questions

 

Have you seen this?

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=6113

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=6112

[+Soulfreak 6,524]

It´s the Norm 72 camo.

German 104´s only wear3 Camo-shemes & in the early years they wear the natural silver sheme.

 

Camos are:

Norm 62 Camo

Norm 83 (Lizard) Camo

Norm 76 (only German Navy)

 

Fighterbomberwing 34 also paintet one 104

in a mix of the Norm 62 & Norm 83 Camo.

called Norm 62/ Ü83 Camo.

;)

the third wire camo is fictional (for German Starfighters)

Edited March 17, 2008 by Soulfreak

[Stwa 18]

PM ravenclaw_007, maybe he can answer your questions

 

Have you seen this?

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=6113

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=6112

 

 

Thx U creep! Up to now, I was having a lot of fun working on my little lo-res Starfighter mod. But noooooo, now I have spent half the night playing with THIS stuff. I did have to drop the skins to 1024 x 1024 the get my FPS up to 30 or so on the xtrnal veiws. Extremely nice work. :yes:

[Stwa 18]

It´s the Norm 72 camo.

German 104´s only wear3 Camo-shemes & in the early years they wear the natural silver sheme.

 

Camos are:

Norm 72 Camo

Norm 83 (Lizard) Camo

Norm 76 (only German Navy)

 

Fighterbomberwing 34 also paintet one 104

in a mix of the Norm 72 & Norm 83 Camo.

called Norm 72/ Ü83 Camo.

;)

the third wire camo is fictional (for German Starfighters)

 

I was afraid the TW skin was fictional. But its very close on the left side, but totally wrong on the right side of the aircraft. Maybe it could be modded by someone.

 

Obviously, some of the references at the 916 Starfighter site are in error, since they refer to a TA 196 (Norm 62) Camo.

 

Thanks so much for this info.

[+Soulfreak 6,524]

I was afraid the TW skin was fictional. But its very close on the left side, but totally wrong on the right side of the aircraft. Maybe it could be modded by someone.

 

Obviously, some of the references at the 916 Starfighter site are in error, since they refer to a TA 196 (Norm 62) Camo.

 

Thanks so much for this info.

 

 

Download rawenclaws German F-104G... ;)

available here: http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=6112

[Stwa 18]

Download rawenclaws German F-104G... ;)

available here: http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=6112

 

Well, I already download it, and I have been messing around with it a lot. But I did notice that he includes a NORM 62/83 skin for JBG 34.

 

[TextureSet]

Name=JaBoG34 "Algäu" Norm62Ü83

Nation=WGermany

Squadron=JaBoG34 "Algäu"

Specular=0.300000

Glossiness=0.650000

Reflection=0.000000

 

This is perhaps what you referenced as the one F-104 as Norm72Ü83..

 

Anyway, great stuff.

[Stwa 18]

I wanted to thank everyone for the links and info on the Starfighters. Obviously for HI-RES stuff, ravenclaw_007's work is the new benchmark. Probably nothing better than this stuff.

 

But for LO-RES stuff, that match the rest of the WOE game components, I went with RNLAF Super Pak from Jet-Z. ---> http://www.12packproductions.com/JetZ/index.html

 

This stuff was already in a nice package, worked with the stock F-104G. Of course I had to make my own little tweeks, but his stuff allowed me to add 5 Dutch squads to the game, plus a new skin. Here is what I ended up with.

 

1. As it turns out the TW stock German Tactical Camo is probably not German at all. But I did find out that this scheme was NATO and employed by the RNLAF. Specifically D-8127 and perhaps some others. So I won't use this skin for German starfighters. But this skin IS NOT fictional.

 

2. I added one new RNLAF skin from Jet-Z, which was Light Grey.

 

3. I took all of Jet-Z's Dutch serial numbers and reworked them so there was just one set (and one size as opposed to 2 sizes), and also re-did the colors a bit and how the alpha channel was applied. I renumbered and sorted all the numbers (what a hag), and put them into one large number.lst, so all of the squads could use the same list.

 

4. Using JetZ's Dutch stuff makes more sense, and it fits into the existing game a lot better, than doing the Italians or Belgians, I think.

 

Edited March 19, 2008 by Stwa

[Badfrank 5]

[+Soulfreak 6,524]

The camo sheme on the dutch starfighter is incorrect too...

dutch starfighters wear the same camo than german f-104´s

[Stwa 18]

The camo sheme on the dutch starfighter is incorrect too...

dutch starfighters wear the same camo than german f-104´s

 

The more I look at your pic of D-8300, the more I see curved painted surfaces. From what I gather Norm 72 was a splinter pattern of straight surfaces. If true D-8300 may be following a NATO pattern? Also, from what I have read, the Dutch for some aircraft did "loosely" use a facsimile of the Norm 72 pattern. So there may be some minor diffrences from the specified pattern.

 

Here are a few that did NOT use the Luftwaffe Norm 72 'Splinter' pattern.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2008 by Stwa

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

Looks good! Would you make a what if modern grey skin?!

[Kirsten 0]

The more I look at your pic of D-8300, the more I see curved painted surfaces. From what I gather Norm 72 was a splinter pattern of straight surfaces. If true D-8300 may be following a NATO pattern? Also, from what I have read, the Dutch for some aircraft did "loosely" use a facsimile of the Norm 72 pattern. So there may be some minor diffrences from the specified pattern.

 

Here are a few that did NOT use the Luftwaffe Norm 72 'Splinter' pattern.

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Stwa,

 

Drop me your emailadress in a p.m. and I'll get you the official colours of the RNlAF Starfighters in RAL codes as well as

converted in FS codes . The camo pattern is indeed rather more rounded than the German type and I can get you some good sets of drawings on that. The actual feeling about the colours depend on the lighting, but in lots of cases on the camouflaged Dutch F104's, the green has a brownish shade and the dark & light greys have bleu accents. I tried them out on my two 1:32 scale Hasegawa F104 G models that way and it looks quite ok.

I haven't been there for some time but if necessary I'll drive down to the RNlAF Museum at Soesterberg for pics if you need them (2 examples on exhibition there). It's a 45 minute drive only.

On the whole Jet-Z did a very good job on our Starfighters and they give the right feeling.

I am very much interested though in you reworked number set....

If you wnt to know anything else about our F104's just let me know.

 

Aju,

 

Derk

[Stwa 18]

Hey Stwa,

 

Drop me your emailadress in a p.m. and I'll get you the official colours of the RNlAF Starfighters in RAL codes as well as

converted in FS codes . The camo pattern is indeed rather more rounded than the German type and I can get you some good sets of drawings on that. The actual feeling about the colours depend on the lighting, but in lots of cases on the camouflaged Dutch F104's, the green has a brownish shade and the dark & light greys have bleu accents. I tried them out on my two 1:32 scale Hasegawa F104 G models that way and it looks quite ok.

I haven't been there for some time but if necessary I'll drive down to the RNlAF Museum at Soesterberg for pics if you need them (2 examples on exhibition there). It's a 45 minute drive only.

On the whole Jet-Z did a very good job on our Starfighters and they give the right feeling.

I am very much interested though in you reworked number set....

If you wnt to know anything else about our F104's just let me know.

 

Aju,

 

Derk

 

Gosh Derk, thanks a lot for the offers of assistance. But, I am probably not the right person for the job. I have never done an aircraft skin before. The skin above was made by Thirdwire around 2003 or so. I wish I knew who the artist was.

 

Also, someone needs to work with ravenclaw_007, if he is willing, and produce some HI-RES Dutch examples of the F-104. I think the community at large would be most interested in the HI-RES skins.

 

I would be willing to e-mail you a zip with the new Dutch Numbers etc...

 

Regards,

 

Stwa

Edited March 20, 2008 by Stwa