A/C Service start & end date amendments

[Southside Bucky 1]

Hi Guys

 

Using the FE+EP+Peter01's version, I noticed in 'Quick Mission' that the game's random choice of adversary often chose aircraft out of their historical service time. For example; flying the Sopwith Pup would often mean taking on the Fokker or Pfalz Eindekkers...A very unlikely scenario over the western front in late 1916. I could give other examples, but you get the picture.

 

So, because I like to make things as historically accurate as possible, I set about editing all the service start and end dates in the relevant A/C DATA ini files.

 

The result is that whatever A/C I choose to fly in a 'Quick Mission', the AI planes will always be of a type that's historically correct for the time period.

 

I'd be willing to upload all those date changes if there's any interest. There's 82 aircraft, so it would mean quite a lot of cutting and pasting or number editing (both for me preparing it, and for you editing all your DATA ini's ), which is why I'd like to gauge interest before I start.

 

Anyone interested?

 

Regards.

 

Bucky

[+whiteknight06604 935]

What the game really needs is to have a patch that decreases aircrft frequency acording to dates.have the planes beless common early and late in their careers

[Dagaith 0]

Hm, I've always thought that the game only checks the year of a/c, e.g. if I choose to fly with Albatros D.III (160) I have SPAD 13's and Nieuport 27's as my enemies. If that, as you imply, can be fixed then it would be a great win for FE :)

[Dagaith 0]

I'd like to add that actually a Pup encountering an Eindecker wouldn't be too unlikely scenario as during the Autumn 1916 when Pup was introduced, several Jastas still had Eindeckers in their hangars (most often ex-KEK's, not to mention home defence units)

 

But I see the problem and I think the perfect solution, in addition to the a/c data.ini changes would be a possibility to select the year AND the month in quick mission creation. Shouldn't be too hard for TK to do it, eh?

Edited August 10, 2008 by Dagaith

[+peter01 2]

Hi Bucky,

 

Just a couple of things...and don't want to be discouraging, but can't understand how you could fix this...

 

The aircraft start and end dates are accurate already (to the best of my knowledge). Of course end dates are always somewhat problematic.

 

In "Quick Mission" its based on year, so you could fly the Pup in 1916 against planes available in 1916 eg Pfalz E3, Fokker E1 start-end is 1915-1916, or planes with start-end dates of 1916-1917 like Alb D2s. Its not based on month overlaps, because if that were true, you wouldn't meet the Pfalz E3 or Fokker E1 in the Pup (start date late 1916), as end dates for these two german ones are early 1916......no overlap in terms of "real" availablity based on month. But you do, or at least, I do!

 

Also if the game used month, you wouldn't meet N27s and Spad13s (start dates Sep 1917) in the Alb D3 (160) with end date of May 1917 either (but Alb D3 170hp is available in June 1917 to 1918).

 

You can get some very funny encounters at times (eg Dr1 versus Dh2). But thats the way it is. As Dagaith says probably the only solution is to have Month as well as Year in "Quick Mission", and even better, include commonality according to month as WhiteKnight states - Pup first available Oct 1916, maybe peak in May-June 1917.

 

I think at present the only realistic solution can be obtained by creating individual Campaigns for planes (LOL 80-90 of them!), the available planes are created by the designer, they are not spawned.

Edited August 10, 2008 by peter01

[Southside Bucky 1]

Hi Dagaith.

 

You're right, there was a brief cross over period during mid to late September 1916, when a few Pups were being used for evaluation, and the Eindekkers were slowly being replaced by Albatros D.I's and II's, Halberstadts and Fokker D types. But I've not come across a single report or reference of any encounters involving the Pup and Eindekker's...If you know of any, I'd be really interested to hear about them. :yes:

 

As you probably know, the Pup didn't arrive in quantity until November '16

 

Regarding the editing of the 'in service' dates in the DATA ini's...All I can say is, changing the month that an aircraft appears and disappears seems to work for me.

 

Cheers.

 

Bucky

[Southside Bucky 1]

Hi Peter.

 

Well, maybe it's had some kinda placebo effect on me,

 

Here's another example:

 

Using the Fokker Triplane in 'Single Mission' and selecting '1917', put me up against the Sopwith Triplane, on more than one ocassion...Not very accurate historically.

 

The Dr.I's DATA ini had a service start date of; 09/17, but in reality there were only three triplane's in use at that time, so I altered it to 10/17, which is the month it arrived in numbers.

 

I altered the Sopwith Triplane DATA ini from; service end 10/17, to 09/17 (again, more accurate historically), and the two planes haven't met since!

 

I thought I'd tested it pretty thoroughly, but Maybe more testing will prove that all this has been a colossal waste of time? :blush2:

 

Regards.

 

Bucky

[+Tailspin 3]

I always thought the month/year worked...I'm pretty sure it used to if its not now. It'd also be nice if it was possible to get squadrons with mixed types...easy enough to do in single missions for your side but its no so easy for the opposition. I suppose you could do it with custom missions by having a two different flights of different types arriving at the target area at the same time.

[+peter01 2]

Arrrggg! Just forget my last post :blush2: , other than saying dagaith and whiteknight have some great ideas to improve the "Quick Combat" experience .

 

Your right Bucky and Tailspin, it does work on month.

 

I remember over a year ago having a problem with some planes turning up, but that related to"End Dates" being a little too generous (most planes were historically available in one way or another for a considerable period, and that was how they were defined in the data inis too). I did change this, again, that was over 1 year ago (and refined somewhat again for current version) for that particular reason - don't know how I forgot this, brain not working this morning...

 

So Bucky, why not do what you intended, setting dates to what you feel maybe more realistic?

 

Quick Combat is, well, Quick Combat, but I suspect many play this quite a bit.

Edited August 11, 2008 by peter01

[Southside Bucky 1]

Right!

 

It's done...I've uploaded it to the "INI Tweaks and Changes" thread:

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showt...20&start=20

 

Hope it meets with everyone's approval.

 

All the best.

 

Bucky

Edited August 11, 2008 by Southside Bucky

[+sinbad 27]

Thanks for the mod! Accuracy is good and a better balance is these 1 on 1 affairs is better.

 

DL now.

 

sinbad

[Mike Dora 171]

Wholly applauded Bucky

 

I had the same issue with mutually incompatible pairings. One of the unique aspects of WW1 air combat was the extremely rapid pace of development, deployment and obsolescence of aircraft types, far more so than in WW2 (and forget about "today" - the Typhoon is only now reaching maturity in full squadron service with the RAF, about 25 _years_ after the first flight of its pre-prototype version, the EAP).

 

The fact that the "atmosphere" over the Front was constantly changing is one of the reasons why it is so hard to use a sim engine designed for another era for a WW1 sim - indeed, one of RB2's immersive strengths was the way in which it handled this aspect (especially with all the subsequent third-party mods like Campaign Manager, Western Front Patch etc etc). That said, TK has really done a magic job "bending" a jet sim engine to the open cockpit era. Sometimes I can almost smell the cordite!

 

Incidentally, way (way way way!) back in 1972, I had a Strategy & Tactics magazine's map-and-counters "Flying Circus" WW1 dogfight boardgame, and did something very similar to what you have just done, by drawing up a table showing service entry and exit dates for all the ac in the game..

 

Mike

[Dagaith 0]

Nice job, Southside Bucky!

 

But don't you think that Albatros D.I and II should be available a bit later? I'm no expert but if I'm not mistaken the first Jastas got their Albatros fighters in September? And perhaps extend the Fok D.II to September, too?

[Southside Bucky 1]

Thanks very much fella's.

 

Sinbad.

 

Thanks for the PM. I'll get back to you as soon as...I've been on this since I got home from work today.

 

 

Mike.

 

Finding that information back in '72 must've been an absolute mare! What did you use? My guess would be; mainly the old Harleyford books?

 

 

Hi Dagaith.

 

I got the August delivery date for the Alb D.I & D.II from the relevant Windsock Datafile, written by the late, great P. M Grosz, in which he states:

 

"Surviving documents show both fighters (D.I & D.II) reached the front at the same time in August 1916"

 

HOWEVER,...Something I didn't notice was that by August 31st, the number of Albs delivered was precisely TWO! consisting of; One D.I and one D.II.

 

Jasta 2 actually started receiving theirs on September 1st...Well spotted man, you know yer stuff!!

 

I had conflicting info regarding the Fokker D.II:

 

P. Leaman, in 'Fokker Aircraft of W.W.I' states that it disappeared from frontline use with the arrival of the Halberstadt and Albatros. P.M Grosz says it reached a high during December '16, but it was being used for home defence or as a trainer. Therefore, I compromised at 08/16...Feel free to legitimately extend it a by month or two!

 

Can we call it a draw?

 

Thanks again for your kind comments

 

Bucky

Edited August 11, 2008 by Southside Bucky

[Dagaith 0]

Can we call it a draw?

 

Heh, sure thing

 

I'll be testing out the new dates in a minute. If these amendments do make a difference then this is a great improvement for the quick combat.

 

 

A bit offtopic: does anyone know if there's any change the A-Team, who made the Halberstadt D.III could make the D.II? There is only a minor difference between them - D.II had Mercedes D.II engine instead of Argus As.II engine. Perhaps some other minor changes too, not sure about that. But it would be nice to have them in game for historical accuracy reasons.

[Dagaith 0]

Btw, what's the deal with Pfalz Eindekkers? I mean, look at that:

Pfalz E.I

ServiceStartDate=06/1915

ServiceEndDate=07/1916

 

and

 

Pfalz E.III

ServiceStartDate=06/1915

ServiceEndDate=01/1916

 

 

I don't know much about Pfalz Eindekkers so could you explain why was the E.I preferred over E.III? Was something wrong with E.III, e.g. the parasol wing was a bad idea or...?

Edited August 12, 2008 by Dagaith

[+p10ppy 2]

A bit offtopic: does anyone know if there's any change the A-Team, who made the Halberstadt D.III could make the D.II? There is only a minor difference between them - D.II had Mercedes D.II engine instead of Argus As.II engine. Perhaps some other minor changes too, not sure about that. But it would be nice to have them in game for historical accuracy reasons.

 

there a D.II and D.III here on combat ace by BORTDAFARM

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...amp;showcat=258

[Dagaith 0]

there a D.II and D.III here on combat ace by BORTDAFARM

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...amp;showcat=258

 

Ah. Should have checked first, heh.

Thanks

[Southside Bucky 1]

Hi Dagaith.

 

The 'Pfalz E.III' is a misnomer. It should actually be called 'Pfalz A I', or 'Pfalz Parasol'.

 

Basically a licensed built Morane Type L. It was the first military aeroplane built by the Pfalz company.

[Southside Bucky 1]

Just noticed that the DH2's service end date is a little premature:

 

Its down as 03/17...Although they started to be withdrawn at this time, they didn't disappear overnight, so you might want to extend its end date by a month or two. I've set mine to 04/17.

 

Sorry 'bout that!

[Mike Dora 171]

Right Bucky

 

Mainly the Harleyfords, complemented by various aicraft Profiles, magazine articles etc. We _did_ have resources "back" then, though perhaps not as many, as deep or as thouroughly researched as today!

 

I got my first Harleyford "Fighter Aircraft of the 1914-8 War" as a Christmas present in 1966. At the time it cost my parents the princely sum of £5 (=$14 in those days). 42 years, one marriage, 2 (grown-up) daughters, one air force career, half a second career, and one change of continents later, I still have the 1914-18 set. Where I go, they go. Blame Biggles.

 

Mike

[Southside Bucky 1]

Nice one Mike!

 

Yeah, the Harleyford's always were expensive!

 

I can still remember the excitement I felt when I FINALLY got my copy of 'Marine Aircraft of the 14-18 War'! The Harleyford's are still excellent references, even now.

 

Actually, speaking of old references, I used J.M Bruce's 'British Aeroplanes 1914-18' extensively for the service date research I did. That was published in 1957, and it's still THE reference on the subject.

 

One book that was surprisingly disappointing as a reference was 'German Aircraft of the First World War'...Very little on service dates in there.

 

All the best.

 

Bucky

[Southside Bucky 1]

Hi guys.

 

Noticed another anomaly:

 

It concerns the Martinsyde G100.

 

This plane began arriving at the front in February 1916, mainly being issued in one's and two's to Bomber and recce squadrons as an escort machine. But because of its large size and poor view from the cockpit, it wasn't very successful in this semi-fighter role. At this time, it used a 120hp Beardmore engine.

 

However, It proved itself to be much better suited to the Bomber and reconnaissance role due to its strength and sturdiness. With an uprated 160hp Beardmore engine it was redesignated; 'Martinsyde G102', and unofficially became known as the 'Elephant'. It was used in this new role from about August '16 until November 1917, when it was replaced by the Airco DH4.

 

There are two ways to rectify the service dates on this aircraft. You can either just alter the service dates of the G100 DATA ini to:

 

ServiceStartDate=02/1916

ServiceEndDate=07/1916

 

Then also change its role to:

 

PrimaryRoles=ARMED_RECON,ESCORT,

SecondaryRoles=CAP,

 

 

Or you could do as I did:

 

1. Make a copy of the 'Martinsyde G100' A/C folder and rename it: 'Martinsyde_Elephant'

2. Rename the DATA ini file to: 'MartinsydeElephant'.

3. Change the service dates to:

 

ServiceStartDate=08/1916

ServiceEndDate=11/1917

 

4. Change the A/C role to:

 

PrimaryRoles=STRIKE,RECON,ARMED_RECON,

SecondaryRoles=ESCORT,

 

5. Rename the 'MartinsydeG100_COCKPIT to: MartinsydeElephant_COCKPIT

 

6.Rename the 'MartinsydeG100 Configuration Settings' file to: 'Martinsyde_Elephant'.

 

7. Open that file, and cut and paste the following into it:

 

AircraftFullName=Martinsyde Elephant

AircraftShortName=Martinsyde Elephant

AircraftDataFile=MartinsydeElephant_data.ini

CockpitDataFile=MartinsydeElephant_cockpit.ini

HangarScreen=SE5a_hangar.bmp

LoadoutImage=SE5a_loadout.bmp

LoadingScreen=MartinsydeG100_Loading.bmp

LoadoutFile=SALMSON2A_loadout.ini

 

Yeah, I know! ...It took me three bloody hours to get the new plane to show in the menu!

 

Worth it though, I think. The Elephant was quite an important aircraft for the RFC, so it's nice to have it in the game.

 

Cheers!

 

PS. Although, with the uprated engine, the G102 was around 12-13 mph faster than the G100, I'm so inept at converting imperial to metric, I've left the engine speed alone. Maybe someone else could help out here?

Edited August 15, 2008 by Southside Bucky

[Southside Bucky 1]

Oh yeah, almost forgot...In the Elephant's DATA ini, just under the service date entries.

 

Change the plane's role from 'ATTACK' to 'BOMBER'.