Adjusted Ranges, Stock T-72A, and Marcfighter M1A1

[+EricJ 4,245]

Did a CAS mission in 'ghan map, and found out that the T-72s fired waaaay before the M1s. In real life? No it's wrong, so I looked at the values and readjusted it. T-72 2A45 is correct, as well as the M1 range (well not totally correct I'll give you that). I figured I just post it here as it's a pretty small mod/tweak.

[Wrench 9,848]

The Abrams gets/got a major upgrade for the DS mod

 

You might want to try these values for the 'simulated' Chobam:

 

[HULL]
ModelNodeName=hull
EffectSize=1.0
MaxExtentPosition= 1.56, 2.88, 1.75
MinExtentPosition=-1.56,-3.07, 0.00
HasArmor=TRUE
ArmorMaterial=TITANIUM
Armor[FRONT].Thickness=460
Armor[RIGHT].Thickness=400
Armor[LEFT].Thickness=400
Armor[REAR].Thickness=202
Armor[TOP].Thickness=120
Armor[BOTTOM].Thickness=25
SystemName[001]=Engine

[Turret]
ParentComponentName=HULL
ModelNodeName=turret
DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE
EffectSize=1.0
MaxExtentPosition= 1.10, 1.66, 2.66
MinExtentPosition=-1.10,-1.59, 1.55
HasArmor=TRUE
ArmorMaterial=TITANIUM
Armor[FRONT].Thickness=360
Armor[RIGHT].Thickness=300
Armor[LEFT].Thickness=300
Armor[REAR].Thickness=102
Armor[TOP].Thickness=60
SystemName[001]=Gun

[MGTurret]
ParentComponentName=turret
ModelNodeName=MGturret
DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE
EffectSize=1.0
MaxExtentPosition= 1.10, 0.66, 2.66
MinExtentPosition=-1.10,-0.59, 2.0
HasArmor=TRUE
ArmorMaterial=TITANIUM
Armor[FRONT].Thickness=360
Armor[RIGHT].Thickness=300
Armor[LEFT].Thickness=300
Armor[REAR].Thickness=102
Armor[TOP].Thickness=60
SystemName[001]=HMG
SystemName[002]=Gunner1

 

It takes 3 direct hits from a T-72/T-62 main gun to kill it now

 

hate using them damn code tags, but there's too many brackets for the 'quote' one

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+EricJ 4,245]

Cool beans, I really didn't notice that, but will do. The main reason is that the T-72.... should inflict damage, but it sho doesn't outrange the 120mm.... will apply it when I can though

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

I don't understand the way the game engine works for ground objects fully so I have this question:

 

Why is the T-72's gunstabilization set to "TRUE" while the M1A1's is set to "FALSE?"

 

The max range you have set to 3000 meters but the "visual range" is 2000 doesn't this mean that the AI won't see targets past 2000 meters or does "max detect range" set at 4800 where the AI detects the targets what is the difference between the 2?

 

Why is nightsight set to "FALSE" does this matter to the game engine or will it still kill targets at night with this setting?

 

Why is the M1A1 given 64 rounds of ammo? Is this to compensate for it not shooting as accurately as an actual M1?

 

I'm not criticizing, I'm building some technicals right now and trying to learn.

 

(Also as a former M1A1 gunner, I can tell you shooting at a target 3000 meters away will result in getting kicked in the back of the head by the tank commander. )

[+EricJ 4,245]

You know some of this stuff I've never messed with. So I'm just as blank as you are as far as figuring out stuff. Maybe Marcfighter doesn't know everything about an M1, which is fine, I've supported a Tank Battalion, nowhere TGST qualified, but.... I have a good idea and knowledge (some book, some actually riding in one) of it. I'll tweak it some more.

 

As far as range? I used to know a tanker in 4ID who said further, so I used that as a rough guesstimate to be honest with you.

 

And as far as Visual and MaxDetect, I'm assuming visual is with your eyeballs and MaxDetect the GPS.

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

You know some of this stuff I've never messed with. So I'm just as blank as you are as far as figuring out stuff. Maybe Marcfighter doesn't know everything about an M1, which is fine, I've supported a Tank Battalion, nowhere TGST qualified, but.... I have a good idea and knowledge (some book, some actually riding in one) of it. I'll tweak it some more.

 

As far as range? I used to know a tanker in 4ID who said further, so I used that as a rough guesstimate to be honest with you.

 

And as far as Visual and MaxDetect, I'm assuming visual is with your eyeballs and MaxDetect the GPS.

 

Oh, I'm not criticizing or trying to be a know it all by any means man if you thought that.

 

The M256 def can hit targets at 3000 meters. The question is would you? That is a pretty hard shot, you would want to use a chemical energy round as opposed to a kinetic energy round (IE HEAT over SABOT) and pray to God your boresight is tight. And if you have done an MRS update before shooting... lets just say it is a hard shot.

 

I'd leave it there, I was just making an off beat joke. (Oh and of course your friend probably said he can accurately kill targets at 4500 meters or something, over bragging is something tankers are really good at!)

[+EricJ 4,245]

Yah... that's what it probably really is, I've never gunned a tank so gotcha

 

And finally able to get the code Wrench, will see how it pans out... whenever it gets in a fight!

[+EricJ 4,245]

Update:

 

Added Wrench's (except for the MG, not sure if Marcfighter's tank supports it....) values as above. Also made Stabilization TRUE, while Marcfighter made an oversight, the A1 has a 120mm tube, not a 105mm M68 (I used the I think default 120mm_L44 in the Gundata.ini

 

If the L44 isn't, somebody let me know, I think it's from the Marine vehicle pack, which had an A1 so....

M1_T_72update.zip

[Wrench 9,848]

the MG gunner IS supported and does work. Trust Me

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

Update:

 

Added Wrench's (except for the MG, not sure if Marcfighter's tank supports it....) values as above. Also made Stabilization TRUE, while Marcfighter made an oversight, the A1 has a 120mm tube, not a 105mm M68 (I used the I think default 120mm_L44 in the Gundata.ini

 

If the L44 isn't, somebody let me know, I think it's from the Marine vehicle pack, which had an A1 so....

 

It is the right gun, M256 is the American designation for the Rheinmetall 120mm cannon. The Germans call it the L/44. Same gun.

[+EricJ 4,245]

No worries man, I'm quite familiar with the nomenclature, I just got alot of things on the plate right now and was too tired to care too much about designations, and that is what is in the GUNDATA.INI anyways

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

No worries man, I'm quite familiar with the nomenclature, I just got alot of things on the plate right now and was too tired to care too much about designations, and that is what is in the GUNDATA.INI anyways

 

Nah, i was just letting you know it was right, I thought you were asking, my school of thinking if it is the same gun info, the actual name of it on some file doesn't matter.

[+Gepard 11,296]

Yeah, in the meantime we call it L/55. Its longer now, better now, more lethal. Penetrates 810mm RHA at 2000m range.

But now my two cents to panzer armours.

The mainproblem in the program is, that the modern types of armour like Chopham, Mehrschicht, Hohlraum etc are not modelled. All values are only in rolled steel (RHA), with the related problem, that a modern armour has different capabilities to withstand different types of rounds.

Lets take the T-72M1 of the east german army as example. It proved in weapon tests in 1991 as unvulnerable against NATO ATGM warheads and HEAT ammo, but vulnerable at subcaliber darts.

The front armour of the hull was 221 mm. Of this were 121 mm steel in two layers and 100 mm glas fibre ceramics in two layers. The front armour plate has an inclination of 68°, what means by simple mathematics, that a round would have to penetrate around 590mm armour.

Which values we should use?

But also without modern armours we have a problem. An example. The good old PVI Tiger had a front armour of 100mm. The T-54 had also 100mm frontarmour. Also both tanks have nominal the same protection level.

But the frontarmour plate of the T-54 has a inclination of 55° (if i remember right). By using simple maths (aqvivalent thickness= nominal thickness / cos angle of inclination) the T-54 had a protection value of 175 mm.

Which value is the correct for the entry in the data.ini?

[+EricJ 4,245]

Yeah but the L/55 AFAIK was only put on Leo2s, not the M1A1/2. I know there was talk on it, but I could just be out of the loop and not know if they've upgunned it.

[+Gepard 11,296]

As i have heared it was a little bit difficult to implement the L/55 into the Abrams. So the US Army decided to use the old L/44 with Depleted Uranium ammo longer.

[+WhiteBoySamurai 1,094]

I'm wondering if perhaps the armor values for MBTs should be based on their effectiveness against high explosive anti-tank rounds rather than kinetic penetrators. According to figures I've seen, the M1A1's frontal turret is 600-700 RHA equivalent strength against penetrators, for example, but a whopping 1000-1300 against HEAT.

 

Those are the figures I use in my install. It may be overly optimistic, but I'd rather err on the side of Awesome than let an Abrams get taken out by a puny 57mm rocket (even if I'm the one flying the MiG that shot it! )

[+EricJ 4,245]

I think, like most sims, elements like damage, are based on abstractness, due to the fact that aircraft values are more detailed (of course) than "other" ones. Stuff like Operation Flashpoint/ArmA/VBS1 have their own values to focus on for individual vehicles. Still, if a 57mm rocket pops a tank, that's just not right.

[+Gepard 11,296]

The top armour of every tank is weak. Between 4 and 6 cm. So a S-5 or a bomblet can penetrate there. If you hit a tank on the engine comparement top you will get a nice firework. Thats the reason why the latest ATGM are all top attackers.

In 1989 the T-72M1 had a protection level against HEAT of 755 mm. This was enough to withstand all NATO ATGM. The ERA armour of the T-72BM incresed this level to over 1000 mm.

But here in game i see some differences with the reality. While the data of the soviet 125mm gun seems to be correct the power of it is to weak. While i tested the T-64 package, which i have released yesterday, i found out, that the penetration power was to low to penetrate the correct armour values. So i have reduced the values to have no Superpanzer.