+Wrench Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Some samples for you to examine and comment on: standard, RAF style ML-KNIL style, old leaf and young leaf, 'natural metal' undersides, I think the underwing flags might be too big; easily fixed. But at least the colors will match my Hawk 75!! Wrench kevin stein Quote
ronan Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Looks hot! :] but i don't fly WWII planes in my instal. Quote
+Muesli Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I like the orange triangles on the pre-war bird! Quote
Silverbolt Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 why some use triangles and some the dutch flag? Quote
Kirsten Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 why some use triangles and some the dutch flag? The red-white-blue Dutch roundel (as used nowadays) was changed to the orange triangles in Europe before the outbreak of the war, in order to prevent confusion with the Tchechoslowakian roundels and the RAF roundels., Holland being very much neutral.......... In the Far East the triangles were replaced by the flags because AFAIK the Japanese red ball was considered to give the same sort of confusion in the heat of the fight. Before all of the triangles could be replaced the KNIL capitulated. May the real guru's correct me if I'm wrong ...... Aju, Derk PS: Kevin, check PM :yes: Quote
Kirsten Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Some samples for you to examine and comment on: standard, RAF style ML-KNIL style, old leaf and young leaf, 'natural metal' undersides, I think the underwing flags might be too big; easily fixed. But at least the colors will match my Hawk 75!! Wrench kevin stein I absolutely adore the 2e-Vl GV "Java Rhinoceros" squadron badge !!!!!!!! Three MWO's (the equivalent of the Victoria Cross) were won by the pilots van Helsdingen (posthumously), Deibel and Bruggink of this group. The replica due to arrive in our Airforce Museum shortly is named after Tub Bruggink....... Aju, Derk :yes: Quote
+Wrench Posted January 9, 2009 Author Posted January 9, 2009 Well, the Java Rhino is on most of those profiles you privided, plus photo evidence in all them damn books I had to go and d/l...so it was a very simple matter to create a decal for it and place it on the aircraft. All the research i've done over the last few weeks (and we're talking spending entire DAYS fact checking...), points to MOST of the KNIL aircracft still haveing the Orange Triangle, as most were too busy fighting for survival to repaint to Flag. But at least 1 squadron DID use them (flags that is). There is so much conflicting data on the camo colors, too...some are RAF type, others are Young/Old Leaf...some had stripes, some didn't.... it's really enough to make ya head spin!! D: got the PM, I"ll give the stripes a shot; the hard part will be figuring out the 'open' section for the serials. Solid, RAF style stripes is easy... I'll have to make new serial decals for 1-VI GV, as in these shots, I just reused the 2-VI GV serials. When released, at my site only, it'll be a "nationalized" aircraft. Meaning, Netherlands as the nation (as opposed to an RAF version that's also coming). Now, we just need Baltika to work up his Malaya/Java/Sumatra map for someplace for these birds to play in... ronan: your loss, brother!!! Wrench kevin stein Quote
Kirsten Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Well, the Java Rhino is on most of those profiles you privided, plus photo evidence in all them damn books I had to go and d/l...so it was a very simple matter to create a decal for it and place it on the aircraft. All the research i've done over the last few weeks (and we're talking spending entire DAYS fact checking...), points to MOST of the KNIL aircracft still haveing the Orange Triangle, as most were too busy fighting for survival to repaint to Flag. But at least 1 squadron DID use them (flags that is). There is so much conflicting data on the camo colors, too...some are RAF type, others are Young/Old Leaf...some had stripes, some didn't.... it's really enough to make ya head spin!! D: got the PM, I"ll give the stripes a shot; the hard part will be figuring out the 'open' section for the serials. Solid, RAF style stripes is easy... I'll have to make new serial decals for 1-VI GV, as in these shots, I just reused the 2-VI GV serials. When released, at my site only, it'll be a "nationalized" aircraft. Meaning, Netherlands as the nation (as opposed to an RAF version that's also coming). Now, we just need Baltika to work up his Malaya/Java/Sumatra map for someplace for these birds to play in... ronan: your loss, brother!!! Wrench kevin stein Kevin, Indeed the matter of what plane and what Groep sported what triangles and what flags means a headache. But in the mean time you've been doing great ..... You're a HERO !!!!!!! Aju, Derk Quote
+Wrench Posted January 9, 2009 Author Posted January 9, 2009 Wow...I can't believe how easy that was to correct....still might have to move the serial forward just a tad... I was worried about the mapping for the fuesalge flag placement, but I got lucky (or I'm that good and just don't know it! ) Derk, you never mentioned I had the flags on upside down!!! Fixed now!! :yes: Next, back to my production number listing, and get the right serials for 1-VI GV (best little pdf I've ever found, next to that one on USN BuNums!!!) On a personal note, I think that perhaps my interest in this region, and time frame, comes from a really old Gary Cooper movie: "The Story of Dr. Wassel". Based on a true story of the retreat across Java, he was a USN doctor trying to get his paitents; wounded survirors of MARBLEHEAD and HOUSTON off the islands, and to Australia. Oddly enough, the only aircraft we ever see are near the films end - Zeros strafing their freighter, until driven off by B-17s. I remember the line one of the sailors says, speaking to his blinded comrade, telling him what's happening ... "Their wings cover the whole ship". The movie makes a LOT of mention of the courage of the Dutch forces, trying to stave off the inevitable. A film well worth watching, if the chance presents itself. Wrench kevin stein Quote
Kirsten Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 Wow Kevin, sh.......t about the flag, well done, and of course also the matter of the serials and "the stripe" !! As for the movie I'll look it up, didn't know it and it sounds very interesting. The Java Sea battle was another one of those forgotten tragedies. We lost three quarters of our Navy there and indeed a lot of Americans were involved in the Houston and the Marblehead as well as a couple of destroyers, and the escape to Australia of a lot of people was indeed a miracle, even despite the dramatic attack at Broome. And my family was trapped at Java together with about 250.000 other Europeans in the Indonesian Archipel. They were put in concentration camps and lost just about everything except their lives (and tens of thousands lost even that) If there hadn't been nuclear bombs a couple of years later they would have died of hunger anyway (and I wouldn't have been there for that matter) but they came away with it, my father after three gruelling years at the Burma railroad. Funny thing that there seems to be nothing about that in the Japanese schoolbooks on history: for them the war starts in August 1945 with Nagasaki and Hiroshima....... Anyway, looking very much forward to the KNIL Brewsters !!!!! Aju, Derk Quote
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