IL-2 is ruining my life....again

[Sakai 2]

Thats right, another flight sim is killing my social life, this one for the second time! When I purchased IL2, I was lost in it's WWII goodness. Now, I have installed hyperlobby, and multi-play is addicting. I know that there are sorted opinions about HL, but it is great way to reach other enthusiasts, and then shoot them down!

[JediMaster 451]

The AI in Il-2 ruins my life every time I play it.

[Nixou 25]

The AI in Il-2 ruins my life every time I play it.

 

 

Yea lol IL2 is imo one of the best games to play online and have fun, and also realistic flight model.

 

But just forget the solo part and AI, or you will commit suicide.

[Jaman 5]

The AI in Il-2 ruins my life every time I play it.

Whats wrong with IL2 AI?.

 

Just asking, ive never play it.

[+Brain32 265]

As pretty much all AI's in flight sims - it's fu*in irritating ;)

 

Oh and Sakai - enjoy it while it lasts I'm so totally sick of it right now I don't think I'll ever get back in it...

Edited January 20, 2009 by Brain32

[JediMaster 451]

I like the AI in LOMAC and TW's sims just fine. There are BS moments, but they're occasional.

Il-2's AI is apparently incapable of handling the flight models they were given, so they're given a ton of cheats to help them cope which turn them into...well, things you've read about happening in WWII won't work because every single AI pilot is an expert marksman capable of hitting you with impossible deflection shots every time (no such thing as crossing the nose too fast for them to react) and they will never lose control unless they're already damaged.

What are the odds that in an 8v8 engagement, you would have all 8 planes on one side chasing a lone plane on the other? Happens in Il-2 all the time because human players are given a priority, so friendly AI will be ignored.

I've been shot down by the tail gunners on planes broken in pieces spiralling down to their death more often than I can remember...

[Nixou 25]

with latest patch i had the impression AI was cheating on speed, among others things. Lets forget accuracy and handling abuse temporarely.

 

So i made a custom mission with a Jet plane against a propeller one, the theoricall speed difference was 150 MPH bonus for me, as I was piloting the jet plane.

 

The AI was going faster and fled from me in a straight flight.

 

Then i read on internet that patches for IL2 would not come anymore, and in spite of player denunciation of abuse AI, IL2 devs did not and would not correct it.

 

From this day i didn't play IL2 again anymore. (against computer)

 

TW AI is one of the best, not because it's better, but because it's the only one not to cheat and still being as tough.

[+Brain32 265]

Well can't say for LOMAC, but in TW sims AI flies at normal, pretty much the same thing is in IL2, many people that play on normal probably do not notice the "BS moments" in TW sims. Same goes for target priority, explains why I have entire flights firing their missiles at me(had up to 27 missiles fired at me alone) in BVR engagements in TW sims...not very immersive either...

AI is still a moot point in flight sims, if they make AI not to prioritize the play you will have people complaining AI is too easy, if you make them all go super mad on the player, people like us will be ticked off becuase that's immensely unrealistic, more options would be nice lol

 

So i made a custom mission with a Jet plane against a propeller one, the theoricall speed difference was 150 MPH bonus for me, as I was piloting the jet plane.

 

 

The AI was going faster and fled from me in a straight flight.

Sorry but you did something terribly wrong, if a plane is faster, it's faster the only thing you can do for the above to happen is to fly the faster plane badly ;)

 

AI cheats in IL-2:

Engine limitation - you can overheat and damage your engine on most planes - AI can't

Structural limitation - some planes will disintegrate at lower speeds than other, this does not work against AI

G forces limitation - AI can pull stuff that will make you blacked out - *unconfirmed*

Control forces - some planes will have heavy controls or will compress at speeds - AI is unaffected by that

AI is always in inhumany perfect trim and flight path, but can actually lost it and stall - spin - even recover

Edited January 21, 2009 by Brain32

[Nixou 25]

Sorry dude, i totally desagree with you there.

 

For AI chasing you in TW , yes , this is right i was thinking in a piloting physics view, in which at least in FE, they cheat not at all or very slightly.

 

But for IL2 im sure at 100%, there is nothing to argue. I think i could do a video.

 

For the speed cheat i was sure before, but i just didn't expected to be that much (jet vs prop)

 

"Sorry but you did something terribly wrong, if a plane is faster, it's faster the only thing you can do for the above to happen is to fly the faster plane badly ;)"

Hehe you are funny there. Yes you may be right, i for sure forgot to start engine. My bad ;) !

 

But i think this phenimenon got amplified with the latest patch, 1946. Maybe you don't use the latest?

 

Edit: If i remember well, you can see AI speed cheats in other ways: your AI team mates can go higher or at an OMG climb rate when they are too far away and have to reach formation. They can also go higher than theoric service ceiling.

 

Finally, and this happens quite often, your AI team mates can reach and kill the ennemy you were shooting at, outperforming your max speed BTW, should you be at max speed since 5 mins and they below (team mates). This combined with the full auto 100% accuracy of AI makes it really frustrating as finnishes off the ennemy you were shooting at way before.

Edited January 21, 2009 by nixarass

[shotdown 8]

Another IL2 AI cheat

AI fighter pilots can see you when you are flying behind and lower altitude.

Anyway, I am a very bad pilot and AI fighters usually dónt need to cheat to shoot me down, so I gess I can't complaint very much :blush2:

[+Brain32 265]

For AI chasing you in TW , yes , this is right i was thinking in a piloting physics view, in which at least in FE, they cheat not at all or very slightly.

Depends what is slightly, when I see F-104 doing super tight turns at 300kmh, that's not "slightly" for me...

 

But for IL2 im sure at 100%, there is nothing to argue. I think i could do a video.

No need for that il2 has a great track recorder...

 

For the speed cheat i was sure before, but i just didn't expected to be that much (jet vs prop)

M8 I've been playing IL2 since 2003 we had many such comments over the years, it's a myth and I debunked it many times. give me an assignment; a faster plane vs. a slower plane - you choose. I will record a track where I will be faster than AI ;)

 

No point in debating with words if we can throw some action in it - IMO

[Silverbolt 104]

think positive, at least isn't a women that is ruining your life

[Nixou 25]

No point in debating with words if we can throw some action in it - IMO

 

Yea you said it. Or even better, no point in debating at all. It's not like if i had any doubt.

 

If any day i get the sufficient motivation i install IL2 and try to get a track.

[+Brain32 265]

nixarass don't bail on me now, no-no. We claim different facts to be true here.

I said I can prove my statements with viewable proof, name the plane matchup and I'll do it otherwise your statements hold little to no relevance at all.

 

I'm quite aware of il2's faults as I am also aware of faults of other sims, but I do not BS around ;-)

Edited January 21, 2009 by Brain32

[Jaman 5]

I've been shot down by the tail gunners on planes broken in pieces spiralling down to their death more often than I can remember...

Heh, happened to me two times flying Strike Fighters (pesky Beagles), damn frustrating. Thankfully its not common on TW sims.

[Nixou 25]

Well dude, first don't take it that way. You have made no statement, just said mine was not true.

 

If you want to "prove " youll fly faster than an AI plane, cowl, you don't need to, i know this is right. As i said several times it has not always been that way (speed cheat), seems to need some conditions to work.

 

For example flying a 109 against russian planes normal mode campaign of forgotten battles, i had not that problem.

 

But anyway i didn't meant to start a debate there, as i don't want to convince anybody, each one will make it's own experience and IL2 is still one of the best if not the best WW2 sim for reason i have said previously.

 

For my part the cheating of AI, only by considering the no stall (ide useless vertical maneuvers) and the full auto is yet sufficient for breaking solo part for me, the speed cheat was over the top.

 

If you don't want to believe me, no problem, never demanded you so.

 

But as i said and seing how seriously you take, i will , when motivation comes,PM you and send you a track. Till there ill ask you either to believe waiting for other confirmation, or just ignore my post.

 

As for the TW cheat part i never experienced..i don't need any proof neither.

 

sorry idk what "BS around" is?

Edited January 21, 2009 by nixarass

[+Brain32 265]

Well sry this is just the nature of all il2 discussions I had, sometimes I wonder if anybody sane ever played it, I guess it did lol

[coolpilot 2]

Well I played the demo and the AI did have some trouble, in a dogfight the enemy would always find a way to get o my 6 with manouvers I couldn´t perform, but the AI didn´t have any accuracy at all, I had him on my 6 for 1 minute, he fired like

mad and missed all his shots.

Then I went into a spin and bailed out.

[Sgt.KAR98 0]

IL-2 1946....Don´t even try it or you not gonna even go to the bathroom.

I wished there was a game like IL-2 about WWI and Cold War...

 

BTW,Is there a place here to suggest skins?

Edited January 21, 2009 by Sgt.KAR98

[JediMaster 451]

That's a true oddity of Il-2 AI. They can't hit you if they're on your six, or any plane for that matter. I've watched them fire nonstop for a minute, every shot missing, and never correcting.

However, make it a deflection shot, or make the mistake of trying to get them OFF your six, and they hose you every time?

 

What always gets me is when a "real life" tactic fails against the AI. You can't out-dive a AI P-38 in Il-2, because as mentioned there's no effect on their controls. You can't outturn a Zero at high speed for the same reason.

I watched Dogfights on the History Channel and an F4F pilot mentioned they liked going head-on with Zeros because their engine acted like a big shield while their guns would rip up the Zero in seconds. Yet in Il-2 the .50s the American fighters get are like BB guns and the Zeros have RPGs launched from their 20mm cannons that never miss and will kill your engine, or you, in any head-on.

[Nixou 25]

Well sry this is just the nature of all il2 discussions I had, sometimes I wonder if anybody sane ever played it, I guess it did lol

 

 

All discussions you had? You mean defending AI? Then let it be cause IL2 AI has nothing to be defended for.

 

But it does compensate for much in other things, like the more realistic flight models ever, and a real way of playing online and have much fun.

 

Human player is always better than AI. (and less risks of cheating)

 

I have being playing at IL2 since the very first game was released (2001) and cannot deny i have still had very much fun, untill the OMG cheating of ennemy finally got me tired.

 

I only keep it now for when my need to play online comes to high.

 

I sent you the tracks showing AI speed cheat, just for showing you how its not a myth. Ow and... I wont answer to the provocation. I have had enough forum flamewars for an entire life..

[+Brain32 265]

No not defending AI, actually I freakin hate il2's AI about as much as I hate TW's, however what they do they do, what they don't do, they don't do that's it.

 

There is no "speed cheat" AI can not fly faster than the plane they fly can.

 

Is there 10 000 other super annoying stuff they do - APSOLUTELY, but the so called speed cheat is not one of them.

 

I donloaded your tracks, will examine them AND will make my own tracks that will clearly show the above is true and post them here for everyone to see too.

 

I will also make a track of A6M2 completely shredded to pieces with .50cal ;-)

[JediMaster 451]

I don't think the AI can make the plane fly faster than possible.

 

I think they can make it fly as fast as possible 100% of the time. They always have maximum possible acceleration, as well as deceleration. Many a time has an AI been pulling away from me and while I'm trying to catch up it slams on the virtual brakes and I nearly overshoot it. No flaps, no speedbrakes, no maneuvers, they just seem to have ultimate control over that prop.

I've seen the same thing from AI in racing sims. They don't use traction control or antilock brakes, but they can put the vehicle right on the edge where they get maximum traction for acceleration, deceleration, and turns. From a dead stop, they pull away from you. From a top-speed run, they can stop shorter than you. They lose a lot less speed in the corners.

 

It's not the plane, it's the fact that the AI flies it like no human possibly could because we only have 2 hands.

 

As for the .50s taking out a Zero, of course they can. My point is that it takes TOO MANY rounds to do it, and far too many areas of the plane seem to be "free fire" zones where you can pour in every round you have and get nothing but damaged textures to show for it with no crippling of the plane, let alone fire, lost parts, or a kill. Likewise the enemy bullets seem to be 2/3 "golden BBs" where every time I take a hit SOME critical system (or the pilot) is hit.

[+Brain32 265]

I think they can make it fly as fast as possible 100% of the time.

Correct! This is what I was talking about, perfect flight path + no engine limitations=easily maintainable maximum speed.

[+Brain32 265]

OK nixarass I watched the tracks...

 

First of all in most occasions AI starts with altitude advantage, not only that but in you especially in 109vsP39 tracks perform super slow manouver before you start to run, you even stalled the 109, during all that enemy AI goes in a strait flight path with altitude advantage towards you.

 

In none of the tracks did you keep strait and level flight path, infact you climbed in most of them so maximum speed on your part goes strait out of the window with this and also makes extremely hard to make any conclusions on relative speeds. Like I said in the first place AI has no engine limitation, therefore it does not have to worry about overheat, you constantly throtthle down to cool your engine that ain't going to work

 

Side note, the track named "speedcheat109ASP49N-LOW.TRK" shows that while you may play the game for a long time you obviously lack some knowledge about planes that are in it. At altitudes you flew the 109G6AS which is allegedly "speedcheating" is 60-70kmh faster than P39N, on top of that he had altitude advantage and on top of THAT you had to maintain the engine and to finialize that track it still took him about 5minutes to catch you. Believe it or not human opponent would overtake you faster then that.

 

Why did you use special P39N1 on a reverse track? Did you think I will not notice? :D

 

All in all, the least I can do is atleast to thank you for your effort, many people didn't even bother to try to back their statement up.