SAAF colours during WWII

[+LloydNB 212]

We don't happen to have an expert on SAAF colours and markings, do we?

 

I've been working on a SAAF Mohawk IV. The colour scheme is based on a profile found at Wings Palette and uses the SAAF markings (similar to RAF but with orange instead of red).

 

I want to move on to the SAAF Fairey Battle and Ju-52 which were also used in East Africa. My thinking is that SAAF aircraft that were for home defence would be have SAAF markings, but if squadrons were equipped from RAF stocks (for example the 3 Squadron Hurricanes) they would have RAF markings.

 

Sound logical?

 

LloydNB

Edited March 24, 2009 by LloydNB

[+LloydNB 212]

In the meantime here's how the Mohawk is progressing. A bit of exhaust smoke and a few more serial numbers and it should be ready to release.

[gregair 0]

I don't claim to be an expert, but do have some knowledge of SAAF cammo in WW2.

 

Throughout the war SAAF combat aircraft generally had the standard RAF cammo patterns, colours and style of markings with the exception of the red being replaced with orange on the roundels and fin flashes.

 

Back in SA at the OTU's, the aircraft generally had the standard RAF cammo or sometimes a single colour cammo and over these would be painted hi viz yellow areas.

 

Your Mohawk is looking really great, although having seen some photo's of these aircraft in SAAF service, I would lean towards a darker shade of the dark earth and a greener dark green. (just my thoughts).

 

Looking forward to seeing the rest of the aircraft.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2009 by gregair

[ndicki 22]

You're spot on. Gregair is correct - aircraft were painted in the nearest equivalent to RAF standard colours, or if delivered directly from the US, in ANA or USAAF colours, modified in theatre to RAF standards. SAAF 4-digit serials were not used by operational aircraft, except in the Abyssinia and Somalia campaign, as aircraft were drawn from RAF stocks and therefore carried RAF serials. The Mohawk IVs were SAAF property, so they did have the specific SAAF serials, as yours correctly shows.

 

While aircraft were generally painted up at MUs, the camouflage scheme did largely correspond to the RAF camouflage pattern; this was laid down for each class of aircraft, so your Mohawk's layout of colours is not entirely accurate. You need to find a 3-view showing the scheme for single-engined monoplane fighters, and go from there. You'll have spotted that all the aircraft posted by Gregair have a similar layout of colours, although when the Mohawk was in service, the A scheme and the B scheme were both still in use. Later, most manufacturers used only the A scheme. The two are identical, in fact, except that the B scheme is the mirror image of the A scheme.

 

The problem is that SAAF aircraft in Abyssinia wore the temperate day fighter colours of Dark Earth, Dark Green and Sky, rather than Midstone, Dark Earth and Azure Blue - one of these colours did not actually really exist officially at the time of the Abyssinian Campaign. Midstone appeared in January 1940 for use in the Middle East ONLY, and Azure Blue was approved only in December 1940. That does not mean, of course that it appeared on aircraft overnight! Despite HQ MEF's dislike of the colour Sky, it remained standard well into 1941. That is for RAF aircraft in the Middle East. In practice, if you look at some early Tomahawks used by the RAF in the Middle East, they retained their temperate colours throughout 1941. Others wore a variety of shades - Light Earth (the shadow-shading equivalent of Dark Earth) being used as a substitute for Midstone until supplies became available. Local mixtures such as Iraq Sky (don't ask!) stood in until Azure Blue became available.

 

Back to our Mohawk. This is 3 Sqn SAAF, isn't it? Dark Earth and Dark Green over Sky. The markings are globally correct, but the finflash wants to be taller, placed lower down the fin, and moved back until the blue band is touching the rudder hinges.

 

The best sets of decals I know are here: http://regshanger.com/Groundcrew/homepage/...l%20Website.htm

 

Click on the "Garage Corner" sign, and go from there. I can't get in at the moment, but...

 

Any more info needed, please feel free to ask! This is a field I spend a certain amount of time messing around in... Most of the SAAF aircraft available for CFS3 are mine.

[+LloydNB 212]

Thanks for the feedback guys. All great stuff.

 

Ok, it looks like I should do another, more accurate skin. Having put all this work into the current skin, I don't want to discard it. Fixing the camo pattern is relatively easy though - as is moving the finflash and making it bigger. I've decided the panel lines need a bit more fuselage detail, so it may be a few more days.

 

Something like this perhaps.

[ndicki 22]

Just for fun, here are a few of mine from CFS3... So keep up the good work - we need lots more Southern African stuff round here!

 

Incidentally, real Hawks/Mohawks are covered with rivets - protuberant ones. Don't hesitate to use white rivets with a touch of shadow behind them, because that really is what they are like. If you need close-ups of a Hawk-75A-1 - basically similar - just yell. I got to play with a real one a year or two ago...

Edited March 25, 2009 by ndicki

[+LloydNB 212]

Currently the Fairey Battle we have carries its stores externally. Whereas the Fairey Battle actually carried its stores in two small bomb bays in each wing just outside the gear. There was another smaller bay for small bombs or flares that was towards the rear of the gear.

 

Since we don't have working bomb bays, is there a way to make the stores drop out of (through) the wing? This would, at least, replicate the appearance of a Battle.

 

LloydNB

Edited March 26, 2009 by LloydNB

[+LloydNB 212]

Ok. A evening of repainting and the 3 SAAF Squadron Mohawk IV is looking more like the genuine article.

[ndicki 22]

The bomb bay works on the IL-28, doesn't it? Or you could use one of the spare animation keys - if you look at how the canopy is configured in manual mode, it seems logical that you'd be able to do the same thing with bomb doors. I'm only a newbie, and don't do modelling, so this may not work - just an idea. It's The Wrench you want to ask, I think!

 

 

Your camouflage scheme is getting closer, although the proportions of the colours are a bit out - the green swathes on the left wing are a bit thin still. But it is looking far, far better! Keep at it!

 

What painting program are you using? If you'd like, I can send you one of my CFS3 templates - if it'll go through the mail! - so you can see all the little tricks of weathering and highlighting you can use to give the model a bit more 3D depth.

Edited March 26, 2009 by ndicki

[+LloydNB 212]

Thanks for the help ndicki

 

I'm using PSP9, but it will convert most formats.

 

As for the Battle, I'm just a humble skinner and don't have a clue how to model aircraft. My question was whether there was a way arond the limitations of the current Battle model. i really hate having external stores on it.

 

LloydNB

[Wrench 9,848]

for the battle's wing bays, you could actually mount the bombs inside the wing. When I did the B-49G, and used mk82s, they're longer then the bomb bay, so part of them 'falls' through the wing structure.

 

but then, there's the clipping issue of possibly having them stick out the top of the wing!

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+LloydNB 212]

Thanks Kevin, that's good news. I'll have to do some fiddling around with it.

 

My interest has always been for the quirky aircraft of the inter-war period. Many of them were still operational in the minor theatres like East Africa and Iraq. I'd love to see the following added to the game in the future: Gladiator, Lysanders, Bombays, Valentias, Wellesleys, Vincents, Ju.86's (used by several countries including South African), Hardys, Audaxes, Harts and Londons.

[ndicki 22]

I'm o, Photoshop CS - but PM me with your e-mail address and I'll try and find one that'll go through the post!

[+LloydNB 212]

Serial numbers to do and then I'll release it.

[gregair 0]

Serial numbers to do and then I'll release it.

 

Wow, that really looks good.