1Gb ATI HD4780 or 1Gb Nvidia 9800GTXplus

[Dutch_P47M 9]

I'm still orientating for a decent Video card, my first option was the old Nvidia 1Gb 9800GTXplus http://www.gigabyte.eu/Products/VGA/Produc...?ProductID=2918 , but just did some exact measurements in my computer and I can also install a 1Gb HD4870 card http://www.gigabyte.eu/Products/VGA/Produc...?ProductID=2971 . Must do some cuttings but its simple just breaking some plastic ribs and I got to have a new high power PSU to use this HD4780. 

 

According the rankings the HD4870 has a better performance then the old 9800GTX+ so why not spending a 100,-- extra.  I hope my wife will not read this !!!!

 

But I, can remember that in some OFFtopics the ATI cards caused some touble here for playing OFF3.

 

 

 

So my Questions:

 

1. Is this ATI HD4870 card Troublefree for OFF3 now a days?  
   
2. Are the HD4870 performance that better then 9800GTX+ or is this just marginal, I'm only playing combat flysims?  
   

[Test Pilot 0]

I thought the 4870 was shorter than the 9800? I'd say the performance gain, especially considering the price difference, is marginal. I for one wouldn't be cutting away at the video card as it is one of the more common things to go wrong in a system and that would void the warranty I'm sure. But then again, I'm scared to overclock my card even though it came with overclocking software!

[BirdDogICT 3]

I thought the 4870 was shorter than the 9800? I'd say the performance gain, especially considering the price difference, is marginal. I for one wouldn't be cutting away at the video card as it is one of the more common things to go wrong in a system and that would void the warranty I'm sure. But then again, I'm scared to overclock my card even though it came with overclocking software!

 

Test Pilot,

 

I have absolutely no problems with my ATI 4870 with BHaH. I used all of the recommended graphics card tweaks and get great framerates on an older 939 system (I did have some memory timing issues that effected the ATI at higher resolutions, but I resolved them).

 

Performance-wise, the 9800 performs better than the 4850 (it's market target) in many benchmarks, http://www.legitreviews.com/article/731/17/ but keep in mind that the 4870 is 20% faster than the 9800. I'd say they're roughly equivalent. And I agree that overclocking your video card is hardly worth the typical 5% performance gain unless you have excellent cooling.

 

From what I've read in other posts on this forum, BHaH seems to work better with NVidia cards. I'm a long time user of ATI cards, but I'd recommend the NVidia card.

 

Cheers

[Dutch_P47M 9]

Test Pilot,

 

I have absolutely no problems with my ATI 4870 with BHaH. I used all of the recommended graphics card tweaks and get great framerates on an older 939 system (I did have some memory timing issues that effected the ATI at higher resolutions, but I resolved them).

 

Performance-wise, the 9800 performs better than the 4850 (it's market target) in many benchmarks, http://www.legitreviews.com/article/731/17/ but keep in mind that the 4870 is 20% faster than the 9800. I'd say they're roughly equivalent. And I agree that overclocking your video card is hardly worth the typical 5% performance gain unless you have excellent cooling.

 

From what I've read in other posts on this forum, BHaH seems to work better with NVidia cards. I'm a long time user of ATI cards, but I'd recommend the NVidia card.

 

Cheers

T.Pilot the HD4870 card is longer then the 9800GTXplus and I'm not do any cutting on the cards but on the coolerhouse, on some plastic ribs who have no purpose.

 

B.dog:what do you mean by memory issue and how did you solve this?

Maybe some outher members can claim the ATI problems on OFF3, I know in the past where some problems but now a days it is quiet. BTW I'm talking about the 9800GTXplus and the HD4870, both are 1Gb cards.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Dutch_P47M

[BirdDogICT 3]

B.dog:what do you mean by memory issue and how did you solve this?

Maybe some outher members can claim the ATI problems on OFF3, I know in the past where some problems but now a days it is quiet. BTW I'm talking about the 9800GTXplus and the HD4870, both are 1Gb cards.

 

Dutch,

 

I take most of the comparisons between NVidia and ATI with a huge grain of salt. In a past life, I was marketing manager for an electronics company, specing new products with the engineers and writing technical manuals. Each company tries to design products that take advantage of some new technical ability or technical weakness of their market rival (i.e.; playing the game of "my specs are better than your specs"). Much of the specmanship is silly, considering that quality standards are such that products from the same assembly line can often vary 5-15% in performance.

 

My ATI problems (since you asked) were due to using PC4400/DDR 550 memory (which is really 200 MHz PC3200 memory that has been overclocked...there is no actual standard for PC4400). The manufacturer guaranteed stability at 275 MHz with 3448,2T timings and those timings and memory speed were, in fact, 2D stable, and passed Memtest. But I was experiencing problems at high resolutions (i.e.; AA and AF wouldn't work at 1600X1024, but were fine at 1360X1024) due to 3D instability. So I reduced the memory speed to 230 MHz with 3338,2T tmings (SPD timings) and everything worked perfectly. I'm not the only one on this forum who has had memory timings issues...usually you don't even know you have a problem until you use a demaning program like BHaH that taxes your system to its limits. Fixing the problem is just one of the minor technical challenges of building your own PC.

 

It's not an ATI problem...you have to have stable communication between memory and the CPU if you want your GPU to behave.

 

Cheers

[sitting_duck 3]

I went with the 4870 only cause i couldnt keep my eyes off the 115gb/s memory transfer rate,,,,and the 3.6ghz memory clock (and the fact ati dropped the price of that card alot, down to 189 at newegg) Now honestly can't say that how important these specs are in relationship to overall card performance, and got tired of researching video cards.

 

the 9800gtx+ runs at 70gb/s memory transfer rate, and a memory clock of 2.2ghz.

 

I have all my ati settings at max, with exceprion of catalyst AI, and sliders at 5 4 4 4 5. e8500 /3.2GHZ, so gotta feeling the cpu is still my bottlneck till i take the plunge and overclock.

 

Still see jagged white edges when i turn quicly with track ir.

 

Gameplay is smooth as silk unless i am multiplayer, then i see some "filling in" on the scenery,

 

But, i always think its a waste of money for something that might not take you into the next generation of games. Doesnt mean you have to go cutting edge

 

and, one thing i didnt know, (and am still not too clear on) Is that games have to be sli or crossfire enabled. I dont have crossfire now, but i put everything together based on the premise i may want/need it. Sli enabled games way outnumber crossfire enabled games, if my brief research is correct.

 

lol..but video cards by far is the biggest pain in the ass item to decide on...wayyyy too many of them out there,,,too many specs to look at. good luck

[BirdDogICT 3]

Sitting Duck,

 

Looks like we are the defacto ATI experts (a dubious honor, since no one else wants the title ).

 

BirdDogICT

[Test Pilot 0]

Not sure how much this would matter (more so if you have a smaller case and are concerned about heat) but the ATI card will run up to 25 degrees C warmer than the 9800 as a result of higher power consumption according to a couple tests.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Test Pilot

[BirdDogICT 3]

Not sure how much this would matter (more so if you have a smaller case and are concerned about heat) but the ATI card will run up to 25 degrees C warmer than the 9800 as a result of higher power consumption according to a couple tests.

 

 

Excellent advice, Test Pilot. If you decide on a 4870, you definitely want one that vents outside the case. I have 7 case fans, so don't have any problems with heat. My 4870 fan rarely spins up beyond 30%, and the temp reaches about 83 degrees C at max load.

[sitting_duck 3]

Sitting Duck,

 

Looks like we are the defacto ATI experts (a dubious honor, since no one else wants the title ).

 

BirdDogICT

 

lol...well..rather than fight over the honor,,,ill conceed it to you...

 

i only know what i know about,,,and what i dont know about is alot,,,

 

but,,,,,,that 83 c,,,is that from the cat control temp? damn,,i get nervous when mine gets to 52-53,,and your right,,ive never seen my fan at more than 17%

[BirdDogICT 3]

lol...well..rather than fight over the honor,,,ill conceed it to you...

 

i only know what i know about,,,and what i dont know about is alot,,,

 

but,,,,,,that 83 c,,,is that from the cat control temp? damn,,i get nervous when mine gets to 52-53,,and your right,,ive never seen my fan at more than 17%

Sitting Duck,

 

I don't trust anyone that claims to be an "expert", myself included :yes:

 

The ATI 4870 is designed to run hot, and can reach 100 degrees C without artefacts. That 83 temperature was reported by Catalyst AutoTune while overclocking.

 

Cheers

[Dutch_P47M 9]

I see no negative answers about running HD4780 in OFF3.

So I think I will go for the HD4780 it looks to be a better card on different testings at the web.

[Macklroy 2]

Dutch: My computer arrives on thursday (estimated) I went with the 4870. The computer guys down at the local computer hardware place said that it would be more than enough to handle any ap. or game. Ill post some results this weekend. Hopefully some screenies as well.

 

S!

[Dutch_P47M 9]

Dutch: My computer arrives on thursday (estimated) I went with the 4870. The computer guys down at the local computer hardware place said that it would be more than enough to handle any ap. or game. Ill post some results this weekend. Hopefully some screenies as well.

 

S!

 

Ok, 

 

First I wanted to start for a complete update: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ /PSU/Videocard HD4870 or 9800GTXplus. Problem in my BTX mobo/case is only room for 1 small Vcard like the HD4870 or 9800GTX+ from Gigabyte and the performance of the AMD 6400+ is not that much, but it is the fastest CPU that will fit.  

 

I'm now considering this: for 150,-- euro's more, I could go for a modern DDR3/AM3-socket mobo and the AMD Phenom Quad core.   Then I'm free in my Vcard choices even can go for Crossfire or SLi. 

[sitting_duck 3]

sure you will get the newest drivers rather than use the install cd. 9.4 just game out

 

and finally got around to trying some overclocking on my 4870. un locked the overdrive window, and ran auto tune, which took close to 45 mins on my system.

It gave me results that pretty much maxed out the gpu and memory clock, but when i ran the game with the overclocked settings i got terribel results. Not sure if i should have restarted computer before playing, but went in and manually set the gpu from 500 to 810, and mem clock from 900 to 1000. game plays great, and frame rate increased about 15%. card still sits at around 48c. After i let these settings sit for a while im sure i will try and raise it up abit.

 

Kinda thout i would have to push my cpu (3.16 e8500) before i would see any positive results in video performance, but i guess i was wrong.

 

also, and not sure exactly how this works, but games need to be sli or crossfire enabled, to take advantage of this. i doubt that off3 is crossfired enabled. so dont go that route just for off3.

Edited April 18, 2009 by sitting_duck

[Dutch_P47M 9]

Conclusion: the ATI HD4780 or HD4790 is suitable for playing OFF3!!!!

[sitting_duck 3]

lol....yeah it will play it....if i had to do it all over again,,,,,would i go nvidia over ati?

 

well,,,if i could get a compatable nvida for what i paid for the 4870, yes,,without a doubt, but at the time i was putting everything togethere, without a doubt i got the most bang otta my buck with the 4870.,

 

have always figured nvida vrs ati was the same as chevy vrs ford,,,,,nikon vrs minolta,,etc,,etc,,

ie,,,they are all good products,and it boils down to personal perfernce,,,,or loyalty if you will.

 

but there is this reoccurring tidbit of information that says off plays better on nvida than ati....cant say for sure if this is true or not.

 

And i built my comptuter for off only,,its the only game on here.

 

so,,,not trying to throw a kink into your line of thout,,but,,,if this upgrade of yours is primarily for OFF, might not be a waste of time to research nvida, and see if maybe they have dropped the price of some of their high end cards to match what ati did on the 4870.

 

and one more thing to consider (as i just found out when i tried to overclock the vid card) most of us cant afford a system that allows full potential of these top end video cards. Off gets no benifit from a quad core, and just guessing here, but think you have to be around 3.6ghz on the cpu with everyhing else in tune to get the most out of a 4870 or compatable gtx285. who knows,,i might be have gotten the exaxt same results with a 100 buck video card as my 4870.

Edited April 19, 2009 by sitting_duck

[Dutch_P47M 9]

lol....yeah it will play it....if i had to do it all over again,,,,,would i go nvidia over ati?

 

well,,,if i could get a compatable nvida for what i paid for the 4870, yes,,without a doubt, but at the time i was putting everything togethere, without a doubt i got the most bang otta my buck with the 4870.,

 

have always figured nvida vrs ati was the same as chevy vrs ford,,,,,nikon vrs minolta,,etc,,etc,,

ie,,,they are all good products,and it boils down to personal perfernce,,,,or loyalty if you will.

 

but there is this reoccurring tidbit of information that says off plays better on nvida than ati....cant say for sure if this is true or not.

 

And i built my comptuter for off only,,its the only game on here.

 

so,,,not trying to throw a kink into your line of thout,,but,,,if this upgrade of yours is primarily for OFF, might not be a waste of time to research nvida, and see if maybe they have dropped the price of some of their high end cards to match what ati did on the 4870.

 

and one more thing to consider (as i just found out when i tried to overclock the vid card) most of us cant afford a system that allows full potential of these top end video cards. Off gets no benifit from a quad core, and just guessing here, but think you have to be around 3.6ghz on the cpu with everyhing else in tune to get the most out of a 4870 or compatable gtx285. who knows,,i might be have gotten the exaxt same results with a 100 buck video card as my 4870.

 

OFF3 is the main reason now. But who knows if RoF can bring a decent campaign mode it will also be used for RoF. 

Edited April 20, 2009 by Dutch_P47M