Graphics question

[HomeBoy 1]

This question is mostly to the OFF team I quess but if anyone has any insight, I'd love to hear it.

 

I have an Nvidia 8800 GTS. One of the selling points of this card (as well as all the 8800s) was their so-called Coverage Sampling Anti-Aliasing (CSAA) which is touted as faster than Super Sampling (SSAA) and better quality than Multi-Sampling (MSAA). I use CSAA in MS FX and it indeed gives me considerably better frame rates and the quality is equal to SSAA as far as I can tell. I was really hoping I could use CSAA with OFF but I can't seem to get it to work.

 

Setting up CSAA is really goofy and tricky. Here's what you have to do (I got this from reading stuff on the nvidia forums):

 

1. If your game has an AA setting, you have to enable it. If the game does not have an AA setting, you won't be able to use CSAA. If the game allows you to set an AA multiplier, you must use either 2x or 4x in order for the driver to use CSAA. In the case of FX, there is only the simple checkbox for "Antialiasing".
    
   
2. You have to set the driver to use Antialiasing-Mode to "Enhance the Application Setting"
    
   
3. You must use AA Settings of 8x, 16x, or 16xQ only for CSAA. Any of the other settings (2x, 4x, 8xQ) will force the driver to use MSAA.
   

 

I have tried to follow the same procedure with OFF and the graphics look horrible. It looks like AA is completely disabled. Maybe it's that I don't know how to properly enable AA ingame. I am using cfs3config and where you set your monitor resolution is a pull-down for AA (2x or 4x). I set that to 2x and immediately quit. I found in the FAQ that it is a known bug that cfs3config will not "remember" that you had previously set AA but that it is indeed set. I have looked through the various xml files hoping I'd spot where it set AA but I can't seem to find anything. I'm thinking this is not working because I really don't have AA set ingame. Can anyone verify?

 

I'd love to get CSAA to work as, at least with FX, I probably gained 10 FPS and the graphics quality nearly equals that of super sampling (which kills FRs). I can't imagine that I'm the only one who cares about this.

 

Thank you to all you graphics experts out there! I eagerly await your reply.

[rabu 9]

This question is mostly to the OFF team I quess but if anyone has any insight, I'd love to hear it.

 

I have an Nvidia 8800 GTS. One of the selling points of this card (as well as all the 8800s) was their so-called Coverage Sampling Anti-Aliasing (CSAA) which is touted as faster than Super Sampling (SSAA) and better quality than Multi-Sampling (MSAA). I use CSAA in MS FX and it indeed gives me considerably better frame rates and the quality is equal to SSAA as far as I can tell. I was really hoping I could use CSAA with OFF but I can't seem to get it to work.

 

Setting up CSAA is really goofy and tricky. Here's what you have to do (I got this from reading stuff on the nvidia forums):

 

1. If your game has an AA setting, you have to enable it. If the game does not have an AA setting, you won't be able to use CSAA. If the game allows you to set an AA multiplier, you must use either 2x or 4x in order for the driver to use CSAA. In the case of FX, there is only the simple checkbox for "Antialiasing".
   
2. You have to set the driver to use Antialiasing-Mode to "Enhance the Application Setting"
   
3. You must use AA Settings of 8x, 16x, or 16xQ only for CSAA. Any of the other settings (2x, 4x, 8xQ) will force the driver to use MSAA.
   

 

I have tried to follow the same procedure with OFF and the graphics look horrible. It looks like AA is completely disabled. Maybe it's that I don't know how to properly enable AA ingame. I am using cfs3config and where you set your monitor resolution is a pull-down for AA (2x or 4x). I set that to 2x and immediately quit. I found in the FAQ that it is a known bug that cfs3config will not "remember" that you had previously set AA but that it is indeed set. I have looked through the various xml files hoping I'd spot where it set AA but I can't seem to find anything. I'm thinking this is not working because I really don't have AA set ingame. Can anyone verify?

 

I'd love to get CSAA to work as, at least with FX, I probably gained 10 FPS and the graphics quality nearly equals that of super sampling (which kills FRs). I can't imagine that I'm the only one who cares about this.

 

Thank you to all you graphics experts out there! I eagerly await your reply.

 

Set the OFF Workshops setup resolution to your monitor and be sure it is 32 bit color, not 16bit. And set the AA to the max 8x. Then set your video card to AA what ever and set it to OFF.

IE: I have a Nvidia 8800gts 320MB and an Acer 22" LCD with default 1680x1050 res. I set the OFF Workshops setting for video to 1680x1050x32 8xAA I then set the Nvidia video card "control panel" "Program Settings" tab set up with an entry for OFF, which I created, with 8xQ AA.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I have the same card..when I set the AA in workshop. it defaults back to 'none'

[gaw 5]

I have the same card..when I set the AA in workshop. it defaults back to 'none'

 

Don't know if this helps but the AA box always "looks" like it defaults back to none. It's misleading as your AA is indeed set, your choice just isn't verified in the box (CFS3 bug apparently).....set your card to "application controlled" and the AA works. I've an ATI card but I remember a thread about just this issue a while back and I think it's in an OFF read-me. Never knew there were 3 different kinds of AA so I might be whistling in the wind here.....probably am.

[HomeBoy 1]

Y'all are missing my point I'm afraid.

 

I'm not having trouble getting AA to work. I can get MSAA and SSAA to work just fine. It is the CSAA (of which I describe the three step method of configuring in original post) that I can't get to work.

 

The 8800 series supports three types of antialiasing:

 

1. Super Sampling (SSAA) - a brute-force method that produces the best smoothing and quality but hits your GC really hard (worst FRs of all).

 

2. Multi Sampling (MSAA) - very easy on FR but doesn't do that great a job in smoothing out the jaggies (not as good as SSAA anyway).

 

3. Coverage Sampling (CSAA) - a trick nVidia developed to get the good graphics quality of SSAA and the performance of MSAA (having your cake and eating it too).

 

As I said, I was able to configure CSAA in Microsoft FX and it made a tremendous difference. My FRs increase probably by 10 and the picture quality is beautiful. I was just hoping I could do that same thing with OFF. I don't understand why I can't. This should work!

 

gaw,

In my first post, I was trying to say what you were saying about the CFS3 bug. It is mentioned in the FAQ. My only point in bringing it up was that I wish I had some confirmation that the game was indeed set for AA. You see, when you use SSAA and MSAA, the video card overrides any setting the game may set (assuming you configure it that way). Course you say you set the card to "application controlled" and get AA to work which answers my question. That confuses me even more as to why I can't get CSAA to work.

 

Oh well, maybe someone who knows the graphics engine in this game will come forward with some words of wisdom. In the mean time, I guess I have no choice but to stick with MSAA.

[HomeBoy 1]

Set the OFF Workshops setup resolution to your monitor and be sure it is 32 bit color, not 16bit. And set the AA to the max 8x. Then set your video card to AA what ever and set it to OFF.

IE: I have a Nvidia 8800gts 320MB and an Acer 22" LCD with default 1680x1050 res. I set the OFF Workshops setting for video to 1680x1050x32 8xAA I then set the Nvidia video card "control panel" "Program Settings" tab set up with an entry for OFF, which I created, with 8xQ AA.

 

What you're describing sets up MSAA. To get CSAA, you must not configure your game above 4xAA. Then you must set your video card AA mode to "Enhance Application" in order to enable CSAA. When I try to do this however, the picture is horrible; as if all AA is turned off.

 

Here is a web site that describes CSAA and how to set it up:

 

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html...TIxOCw3LCwxMTA=

 

I wouldn't even care that much about this except that it made such a fantastic difference with MSFX I really wanted to use it with OFF.

[rabu 9]

What you're describing sets up MSAA. To get CSAA, you must not configure your game above 4xAA. Then you must set your video card AA mode to "Enhance Application" in order to enable CSAA. When I try to do this however, the picture is horrible; as if all AA is turned off.

 

Here is a web site that describes CSAA and how to set it up:

 

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html...TIxOCw3LCwxMTA=

 

I wouldn't even care that much about this except that it made such a fantastic difference with MSFX I really wanted to use it with OFF.

 

Hi, HB:

I remember a post awhile back by Winding Man.. I think it's in the FAQ's as well, saying that you need to set OFF to match your monitor resolution at 32bit and then set the AA at 8x, then set your card to what ever you want. The OFF 8x will not look liike it is staying set to 8x, but it is. I don't know why it has to be set to 8x if your card is making the AA decision, but they seemed to be convinced that was the way to do it.

 

I think you miss understood that very confusing link you gave, I had a hard time understanding it, it's very poorly written. They weren't saying that "you must use 2x or 4x in order for the driver to use CSAA" That would only give you MSAA since the application The way I interpretit it,

 

 

 

• If you have no AA controls in a game use the "Overide Any App" setting.
  
• If you only have 2x or 4x or On settings in the game, use the "Enhance App Settings" but you will only get MSAA. From their article: "If you are only going to use 2X or 4X AA in a game there is no reason to do “enhance the application setting” because you won’t receive any benefits doing so. So only choose this mode if you want to try out 8X, 16X or 16xQ CSAA."
  
• If your game supports 8x or higher (CFS3/OFF), set the game to 8x and set Nvidia to 8x "App Controlled" for 8x CSAA or to 16x/16xQ "Enhance App Settings" for Nvidia 16x or 16xQ CSAA
   
  I'm using the 8xQ MSAA setting and it looks pretty good with the game set to 8x. I read the page you linked and I wasn't that familiar with CSAA.. good to know about. I'll see what happens trying that out setting it to 16x CSAA "Enhance App" with OFF set to 8x and let you know if it makes a difference here.
   
  Thanks,
  

[rabu 9]

Hi, HB:

I remember a post awhile back by Winding Man.. I think it's in the FAQ's as well, saying that you need to set OFF to match your monitor resolution at 32bit and then set the AA at 8x, then set your card to what ever you want. The OFF 8x will not look liike it is staying set to 8x, but it is. I don't know why it has to be set to 8x if your card is making the AA decision, but they seemed to be convinced that was the way to do it.

 

I think you miss understood that very confusing link you gave, I had a hard time understanding it, it's very poorly written. They weren't saying that "you must use 2x or 4x in order for the driver to use CSAA" That would only give you MSAA since the application The way I interpretit it,

 

 

 

• If you have no AA controls in a game use the "Overide Any App" setting.
  
• If you only have 2x or 4x or On settings in the game, use the "Enhance App Settings" but you will only get MSAA. From their article: "If you are only going to use 2X or 4X AA in a game there is no reason to do "enhance the application setting" because you won't receive any benefits doing so. So only choose this mode if you want to try out 8X, 16X or 16xQ CSAA."
  
• If your game supports 8x or higher (CFS3/OFF), set the game to 8x and set Nvidia to 8x "App Controlled" for 8x CSAA or to 16x/16xQ "Enhance App Settings" for Nvidia 16x or 16xQ CSAA
   
  I'm using the 8xQ MSAA setting and it looks pretty good with the game set to 8x. I read the page you linked and I wasn't that familiar with CSAA.. good to know about. I'll see what happens trying that out setting it to 16x CSAA "Enhance App" with OFF set to 8x and let you know if it makes a difference here.
   
  Thanks,
  

 

Indeed, it does make a difference and frame rate doesn't seem to be affected. I set OFF to 8x AA and then set the Nvidia set up so that OFF runs at 16x AA "Enhance Application Settings" One thing I found is that for some reason it only works for Global settings of the Nvidia set up. I had created settings for both CFS3 and OFF at 16x "Enhance Application Settings" pointing to their exe files in the custom program settings tab. That should have over ridden the global settings which were set to 8xQ "Application Controlled, but I didn't see the smoothing in OFF until I changed the Nvidia Global setting to 16x "Enhance Application Settings." With that set up working, and getting about 50-60-fps, I then changed OFF AA to 2x and re flew and it didn't look any different, still very smooth.

FPS with the 16x "Application Enhance" is much better then the 8xQ App Controlled.

 

See the photos below and be sure to click on the top bar to see them full screen size.

 

Here's a full size screen shot of the 16x App Controlled, you can see the really smooth lines and fps stayed in the 50's most of the time.

 

 

 

This next one is the same shot with 8xQ Application Controlled and the jaggies are obvious along with lower fps about mid 40's

 

So, HB, does your's look like the first one or this second one?

Edited April 11, 2009 by rabu

[HomeBoy 1]

Thank you for taking the time to do this Rabu!

 

Your graphics look beautiful. That's most encouraging. You have proven (as I did with FSX) that CSAA is more than just marketing hype.

 

You've also shown that I apparently have a serious problem with my configuration of OFF. Mine looks horrible and I don't get anywhere near the FRs you do. I was going to post a bunch of screenies here to show how my various settings look but I don't see a point in that after seeing yours. I obviously have issues. Here is my CSAA-SuperSampling screenshot just to contrast. For some reason, my graphics look a lot worse while sitting on the ground than airborne. Not sure what's up with that.

 

 

 

I am going to remove all traces of my OFF and start from scratch. It must be that through all the trial-and-error, I have just screwed my copy up. Starting over seems to be the best thing to do. I am confident that I can get mine running well now that I understand things better. Out of the four games I play (Aces High, MS-FSX, LockOn, and OFF), OFF is the only one that I can't achieve beautiful graphics and very good FRs with. You have shown that I can get that with this game. That's good to know.

 

Now, if it's not too much to ask, would you mind posting screenies of your:

 

-Nvidia Control Panel settings for OFF (or I guess "global")

-CFS3config tables --

-Change Display Options

-Overrides

-Texture Info

-Texture Limits and Z Bias (if anything is not default)

 

And anything else you think is appropriate?

 

Also, would you report your system specs so I'll know how close our systems are?

 

That's a lot to ask but I would appreciate it.

 

kind regards

-mark

[rabu 9]

I pretty much follow the OFF recommendations for the Workshops settings:

 

Sliders

3 & 3 for Terrain, 5 for Aircraft and Effects, 4 for clouds.

 

Overrides settings:

Disable Intro Movie

High Resolution Z Buffer (deselect Dual Pass Render)

Terrain Detail Texture

Disable Validate Device

Disable in cloud effect

 

Texture Info:

Composite Terrain Texture Usage ....... Render Target

Composite Terrain Texture Pool ........ Default

 

Composite Aircraft Texture Usage ....... Render Target

Composite Aircraft Texture Pool ........ Default

 

Vertex Buffer Pool ....... D3DPool_Default

Index Buffer Pool ........ D3DPool_Default

Full Screen Swap Effect .. D3DSwapEffect_Discard

 

Texture Limits:

aircraftmodels

Scale-0

Texture Max-0

 

 

Nvidia 1.5.30.38 Control Panel Globabl settings:

 

Anisotropic Filtering 8x

Antialiasing Gamma correction - On

Antialiasing Mode Enhance application setting

Antialiasing Setting 16x

Antialiasing Transparency Multisampling

Conformant Texture Clamp Use Hardware

Error Reporting Off

Extention Limits Off

Force Mipmaps None

Max Pre-rendered Frames 6

Multi-display/Mutilple Display Performance Mode

Texture Filtering-Anisotropic Sample Opitmizaion Off

Texture Filtering-NEG LOD bias Allow

Texture Filtering Quality Quality

Triple buffering Off

Texture Filtering Trilinear Optimization Off

Texture Filtering Ansiotropic mip filter opt... OFF

Threaded Optimization Auto

Vertical Sync Force On

 

My system is home built (with Parky's help):

 

Coolar Master Centurion Mid Tower ATX case

MOB: Gigabype GA-EP45-DS3R FSB 1600GB North Bridge P45 Express

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHZ LGA775

Memory: Patriot Extreme 2GB DDR2 SDRAM

PS: Antec Trio TP3-650 Watt ATX12v

Video: EVGA Navida GeForce 8899GTS 320MB

Sound: SB PCI Audigy 2 ZS

HD: C: SATA WD Caviar SE16 250GB 16MB Cache 3GBS

HD: D: SATA " 350GB " "

Windows XP Prof.

 

Nothing is over clocked

 

Hope this all helps.

Edited April 12, 2009 by rabu

[Madmatt 0]

Interesting results guys but before too many conclusions are made from the reports above, let me add in my own observations and findings.

 

On my 8800GT (driver version 182.50) under Windows 7 (64bit), I have to use the "Override application setting" in order to see any in game anti-aliasing.

 

If I select Enhance application or Application control, I get NO AA at all.

 

It's actually very easy to test this because on my PC, I can pause the game, alt-tab to the desktop and alter the settings in the Nvidia control panel, switch back to the game and see immediately what effect they have. You can't do this in all games, but the CFS3 game engine appears to reinitializes itself when you task switch, which is helpful for testing like this.

 

So, for me, I run at 16x and "Override Any Application Setting" and I get smooth edges and fluid framerates. I actually get LOWER framerates with 16xQ enabled than I do with 16x (by over 10%).

 

Also, unlike the report above, I AM able to use the profile feature in the Nvidia control panel and set up a specific config for OFF (set it to activate with the cfs3.exe) although the profile feature overall is somewhat problematic and seems to get broken every other driver release.

 

My resolution is 1366x768 (I play on a 50" plasma!) and I selected 8x AA under the Workshops graphics tab (CFS3config).

 

To be honest, none of these results surprise me at all. I have dealt with the annoying nuances of Nvidia drivers for years professionally and I often see how one set of drivers and hardware behave differently than another based on a particular OS or chipset. In fact, even though the 88xx family covers a wide range of cards (including the relabeled 98xx family), there are many internal differences in various cards and OEMs. I have seen situations where two different 8800GT cards from different manufacturers (but on paper, nearly identical) worked completely differently with the exact same game. Because of this, my advice to anyone looking to tweak some better visuals and frames out of their systems is to do your due diligence and play around with drivers and driver settings until you strike that happy medium.

 

I guess my point is that what works for one person, even with similar/same hardware, might not work for you. Had I not spent the time to investigate this myself, I would have not found the correct settings for my card and drivers.

 

Take care all, and happy flying!

 

Madmatt

Edited April 12, 2009 by Madmatt

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Question: In Nvidea control panel, should I select CFS3.exe or OFFManager.exe to launch my customized application settings? I have been using OFFManager.exe but was wondering if that is wrong, based on Madmatt's post. Thanks.

[Siggi 10]

Question: In Nvidea control panel, should I select CFS3.exe or OFFManager.exe to launch my customized application settings? I have been using OFFManager.exe but was wondering if that is wrong, based on Madmatt's post. Thanks.

 

You should select the cfs3.exe. The OFF exe isn't the game itself, it's the program that manages it. As in I've had the game (OFF) still running after the manager had crashed.

[sitting_duck 3]

Hate to be the one to take this thread on a tangent, but although i know that fps is supposedly not big performance issue in off3 ( as most recommendatison say to limit them to 30fps), it does bother me a little that i never get the high fps that others show.

 

and looking at what rabu posted, i noticed that his cfs3 overides do NOT conform to all the posts i have seen for textures.

 

Am not saying his settings are wrong, just wondering if anyone knows what these settings do, and the effect they will have on video perfomance.

 

these are the recommendations in the off faq, and all the other tweaks i have ever seen, they are the same for ati and nvidia

Composite Terrain Texture Pool - set to Managed

Composite Terrain Texture Usage - set to Rendertarget

Composite Aircraft Texture Pool - set to Managed

Composite Aircraft Texture Usage - set to Rendertarget

 

these are rabus

Texture Info:

Composite Terrain Texture Usage ....... Render Target

Composite Terrain Texture Pool ........ Default

 

Composite Aircraft Texture Usage ....... Render Target

Composite Aircraft Texture Pool ........ Default

 

for all i know, the effects of these settings could be so minimal, you would never notice the differnce from on to another

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Thank you very much, Siggi. Happy Easter!

[rabu 9]

I double checked mine and:

 

Composite Terrain Texture Pool is Default,

Composite Terrain Text Usage is Render Target

Composite Aircraft Text Pool is Default

Composite Aircraft Text Usage is Render Target

Vertex Buffer Pool is Default

Index buffer Pool is Default

Fullscreen Swap Effect is Discard

 

I had played around with these before, trying different combos and never could really see any difference that I was aware of.

 

I set these from the Off Workshop

I believe I am correct, If you run the CFS3config.exe in the CFS3 main folder you will not be affecting OFF, just CFS3

You have to run the CFS3config.exe in the OFF main game forlder, or use the Workshop button to run it.

 

BUT, double checking this morning, when I now try to run it in the OFF main folder I get an exception error pop up window, .. it didn't used to do this in past patches, or maybe it was back in V2? This is odd, trying to run the one in the CFS3 main folder also gives me this same message. Does anyone know what this means?

 

Went back into OFF and it works fine from there and game runs fine still.

I's still experimenting with the Nvidia settings this morning, trying different settings to see how it affects things and will let you all know if any thing develops.

 

Also, just noticed a typo, my Video card is a 8800GTS, not 8899GTS, sorry.

Edited April 12, 2009 by rabu

[cptroyce 0]

It appears this information would be very useful to all using Nvidia cards; and setting up the CFSconfg. file.

 

I have a 8800GT SLI'd, and would love to have a sort of definitive Nvidia card set up as I am "lost" with the technical side of the card useage, beyond the most obvious settings.

 

Rabu- Your screenshots look great and I am not certain I am getting most out of the AA aspect of the card.

After you are done experimenting, would you mind posting or emailing a sort of easy step by step for those of us that are not as familiar with the setup as you are?

 

Regards,

Royce

[rabu 9]

Hi, Royce:

 

Well, the OFF Workshop config set up tabs are outlined above. If you have two cards running SLI I believe it's a bit different and there have been several discussions about it so you might want to do a search here.

 

The Nvidia card set up I have is:

 

The Main Image Setting window is set to use the advanced 3d Settings tabs:

 

 

 

You then go to the advanced settings tabs. I set mine up for Global as the program tabs didn't seem to be working, but I haven't played around with it much. Anyway, this is my Global settings:

The AA is "On" Mode is "Enhance App Settings" if you are going to set it to 16x or 16xQ Or you can set it to "Application Controlled" if you are going to only use 8x Both should get you the special CSAA mode that is supposed to be faster. BE sure that in the OFF config set up you set the Resolution to your screen res at 32 bit color and be sure to choose 8x AA. Also be sure, after making any changes in the config file, that you exit via the File menu "Exit", NOT by hitting the upper right exit "X" button.

 

Edited April 12, 2009 by rabu

[BirdDogICT 3]

I double checked mine and:

 

Composite Terrain Texture Pool is Default,

Composite Terrain Text Usage is Render Target

Composite Aircraft Text Pool is Default

Composite Aircraft Text Usage is Render Target

Vertex Buffer Pool is Default

Index buffer Pool is Default

Fullscreen Swap Effect is Discard

 

I had played around with these before, trying different combos and never could really see any difference that I was aware of.

Rabu,

 

I haven't found the texture settings to make much difference with FPS, either, but setting Fullscreen Swap Effect to Flip completely eliminated stutters for me.

 

Thanks for clarifying that you need to set AA to 8X in CFS3Config before setting up your graphics card. Winder pointed this out to me several months ago, but I ignored his advice. I am now able to max out and customize my graphics card settings without negatively effecting my FPS. Smooth as glass and looks great, too!

 

Cheers

[HomeBoy 1]

I don't know whether to call Rabu a genius or a lucky man!

Either way Rabu, I give you a giant

 

When I saw your graphics and frame rate, I thought you must have a computer that is off the scale powerful and when you reported what you had, my jaw dropped. Your machine is very similar to mine. Mine even outdoes yours a little bit (I have 4GB memory, have a faster HD and have overclocked to 3.1Ghz). That was pretty discouraging until I realized there must be some setting somewhere that is causing all the trouble for me. Well, there apparently was (still not sure yet exactly what), because I am now running with as stunning graphics as you are and I'm seeing 60+ FPS when there is no ground in sight! My frame rate is really good now most all the time. First time for that. Antialiasing is beautiful, etc., etc. I've never seen this game look this good or run this well! Thank you so much for investing so much time in helping me with this!

 

What I did was very simple. I deleted every trace of OFF from my computer and reinstalled it. (This was really completely needless but at least I knew for sure what all the default settings were.) I took your settings that you posted and just blindly set mine to match (even when they didn't seem logical, for example, you have your "Multi-display" in vVidia setting set to "Multiple display" even though I only have one monitor and "Triple buffer" to Off even though the nVidia White Papers say that should be on if you are using Vertical Sync. I just blindly followed your lead. BTW, here are my settings that I now use:

Disclaimer: As Madmatt points out, just because copying Rabu's setup worked for me is ABSOLUTELY no guarantee that it will work for you!

 

It turns out that you have altered the default settings very little; very different from what's in the FAQ. The most interesting change from default that you made is the "Texture Max Dimension" in the "Texture Limits" table. The default is 1024, you set it to 0! I really raised my eyebrows over that one. Do you have some inside info there?

 

Now's when things get really weird. As you said, you found that you needed to match the "CFS3.EXE" profile in NVIDIA Control Panel to the "Global" one in order to get AA to work right. Well, I found that if I have a CFS3.EXE profile at all, things won't work right. So, what I had to do is set all my other game profiles to not inherit from the global one at all and then use the global one as my OFF profile. This is really a hassle and especially in the future I'll always have to remember that the global settings are for OFF and I cannot change them in a "generic" sense. I really hate stuff like that but at least I'm getting this game to work now. Sheesh! Here are my nVidia settings:

 

In any case, I am keeping a ruler near by so that if I feel the urge to get back into the settings and start changing things, I can give my fingers a good wack! No more experimenting for me!

 

BTW, I found Madmatt's comments very enlightening and inline with my own experience. I have always found this graphics stuff very magical. When the "Voodoo" card first came out back in the nineties, I thought "What an appropriate name for a graphics card!" Thank you Matt for some great wisdom there.

 

Ok, I'm going to start playing this game now!

 

Thank you again Rabu for the help. I hope others (Sitting Duck comes to mind) will find this helpful as well.

 

<S>!

-mark

Edited April 12, 2009 by HomeBoy

[rabu 9]

Just an update, have been plying campaign for the last hour.. and loving it, of course. Flying a Bebe N11 for Lafayette Escadrille and was sent about 50 miles to hit a balloon with 5 other wing men. Flying over those mountains West of Switzerland is really beautiful and being an over cast, rainy day, every thing was dark down below. I used the warp to get to the second way point but was stopped by enemy planes in the area.. two way down below, so I opted to continue toward the front for my mission, as I was leading it. I began to hear the sounds of distant shells going off and after a few minutes, suddenly, the whole landscape was covered with small white boxes! I was able to alt-Tab and get into the Navida settings and changed the AA from 16x Enhanced back to 8x Enhanced. Clicked on the game icon in the tray and the terrain did a refresh and all seemed fine, but a few minues later we ran into about 6 EIII's with the advantage above us and during the scuffle, I lost control and plowed into the ground.. What an experience though!

 

So, not to go on about this, but I guess 16x Enhanced is too much for my system and I'm going to stick with the 8x Enhanced.. I can hardly tell the difference any way, the edges look just as smooth to me.

 

Re the question about setting the aircraft texture max dimension to 0.. I've been doing it for a long time, not sure, just force of habbit, I guess, you could set it to the default OFF 1024 and I doubt it would make any difference.

 

HB: I noticed in your Nvidia setting you have Vertical Sync "Force on" do you think that helps? I played with that on and set the OFF Full Screen Swap to VSync, but I again, wasn't sure if it made a difference. Another thing I noticed is that you have your Navida Anisotropic setting to 8x, I have mine at 4x and have no idea how much of a load this might put on things.. it has to do with ground textures, I think. Anyway, really glad you got yours working, have fun!

[BirdDogICT 3]

Interesting results guys but before too many conclusions are made from the reports above, let me add in my own observations and findings.

 

To be honest, none of these results surprise me at all. I have dealt with the annoying nuances of Nvidia drivers for years professionally and I often see how one set of drivers and hardware behave differently than another based on a particular OS or chipset.

Madmatt

Madmatt,

 

Right on target...if people would only realize that the variation in PC components varies 5-15% or more from the same assembly line, they'd stop taking published specs and performance figures as gospel. When you add in MB, CPU, memory, PSU, OS, etc., good luck on finding the "perfect" settings.

 

Cheers

[cptroyce 0]

Rabu- Thanks for the reply and setup specs for the card.

 

I'm fine with the OFF Config. file settings..it's the Nvidia settings I was wondering about.

 

I have my OFF resolution set to 1440 X 1920, however my desk top is set to 1024 X 768. Wil that make any difference with setting up the Nvidia card AA settings?

 

Royce

[HomeBoy 1]

...

So, not to go on about this, but I guess 16x Enhanced is too much for my system and I'm going to stick with the 8x Enhanced.. I can hardly tell the difference any way, the edges look just as smooth to me.

I flew a RAF mission last night from a field near Calais across the front into enemy territory to attack a railyard and back. Roundtrip was about 150 miles. Took about two hours. I only used TAC and turned off labels. Didn't use warp at all. I'm using the exact configuration I posted above (CSAA-16x) and it was absolutely beautiful in every way. I got frame rates around 50-60 with a few dropping down into the 20-30s occasionally once we started fighting around the railyard. I was fully prepared to drop back to 8x if need be but so far it seems like I'm ok with 16x. My, what a beautiful game this is!

 

Re the question about setting the aircraft texture max dimension to 0.. I've been doing it for a long time, not sure, just force of habbit, I guess, you could set it to the default OFF 1024 and I doubt it would make any difference.

I am really curious which setting has made the difference. One of these days, I may plow into it and try to discover it. I was suspicious it was the aircraft texture max dimension but that's almost too obvious. It's probably some really tricky combination. Nah, I'm enjoying this game too much to want to waste more time configuring it.

 

HB: I noticed in your Nvidia setting you have Vertical Sync "Force on" do you think that helps? I played with that on and set the OFF Full Screen Swap to VSync, but I again, wasn't sure if it made a difference. Another thing I noticed is that you have your Navida Anisotropic setting to 8x, I have mine at 4x and have no idea how much of a load this might put on things.. it has to do with ground textures, I think. Anyway, really glad you got yours working, have fun!

Those are actually your settings (if you look back to what you posted you'll see that).

 

I'm not sure either about the effect of AF. I have experimented with setting it to 8x and 4x and don't really see much difference. I just left it at 8x since my performance seems so good now.

 

VSync. Well, I have come to the conclusion that you should always turn that on. With VSync on, you will never get frame rates above 60. It is my opinion that the VC is wasting cycles generating frame rates higher than that anyway and VSync is a good way to limit that. It's very much the same idea as setting the ingame frame rate limiter only it's being done at the video driver level which is better I think. My first real experience with VSync was with Aces High. AH is not a game that taxes the video card a whole lot so guys (myself included) were getting frame rates way up into the 130s and 140s with these newer computers and graphics cards (e.g. 8800). What resulted was lots of "tearing" and "streaking" on the screen (especially with TrackIR as you turned your head quickly). VSync (designed really for CRTs which have a true refresh rate, LCDs do not), will prevent the VC from generating those high frame rates. When I play Aces High, my frame rate is pretty much locked constantly at 60 FPS. I think even games that tax your graphics much harder (FSX, OFF) also benefit from having this setting on. I experience fewer tearing and other anomilies with it turned on.

 

There were some other settings that you had that I questioned but followed your lead anyway but frankly, this game looks so good now I think I'm just going to put my lab coat back in the closet and enjoy this game. It looks 100 times better now than it did Saturday morning.

 

<S>!

-mark

[sitting_duck 3]

Yep, took notice of this

 

did most of the changes to reflect rabu's settings (ati here,,,i have some he doesnt, and he has some i dont)...

 

Didnt improve fps any, but game still plays terrific.

 

think it boils down to ...if its not broken,,,dont fix it..at least for my game...