D.Va's and Nieuport 17's...

[Hauksbee 103]

Just flew a flight of four D.Va 200's against six Nieuports 17's. I got my butt handed to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd have to say that a D.V cannot turn inside a Nieuport 17. Time and time again, I'd have the D.V banked hard left as one came by, crossing from right to left. It would look like a sure bet, but I never could bring the guns to bear. Unless he was at my exact altitude, I couldn't lift up the nose that extra degree or so. The D.V was in no danger of stalling, she just had no more to give. I'd chase. but he'd stay just out of the kill zone. I'd say the Nieuport's a little faster, but closing didn't seem to be the problem. In the few times I thought I'd had bead on him, tracers would start to fly past me. Seems I always had one of them on my six. Do our other Albatros pilots find this to be the case?

 

Does the '200' in Albatros D.Va200 refer to the 200hp engine fitted to some?

 

And finally, from Wikipedia, Richtofen's assement: "The D.V entered service in May 1917 and, like the D.III before it, immediately began experiencing structural failures of the lower wing. Indeed, anecdotal evidence suggests that the D.V was even more prone to wing failures than the D.III. The outboard sections of the upper wing also suffered failures, requiring additional wire bracing. Furthermore, the D.V offered very little improvement in performance. This caused considerable dismay among frontline pilots, many of whom preferred the older D.III. Manfred von Richthofen was particularly critical of the new aircraft. In a July 1917 letter, he described the D.V as "so obsolete and so ridiculously inferior to the English that one can't do anything with this aircraft." British tests of a captured D.V revealed that the aircraft was slow to maneuver, heavy on the controls, and tiring to fly."

 

[zoomzoom 2]

Sometimes you have to lose altitude in part of this "death spiral" by kicking rudder to nose the plane down as you turn steadily, after you gain speed with this trick, lay off the rudder and yank back harder on the elevator to turn further inside your opponent till you lose speed and approach stall,....rinse....repeat. You should be able to line up a few shots this way.

 

ZZ.

[Wels 2]

Hello,

the Alb D.II and III were good planes, usable for almost every kind of action in 1916, and 1917, but the following series were not "up to the job" in their time anymore. You can read this in almost every war diary or report, german pilots were very disappointed with the D.V and the time it saw service. Even the Albatros D.II was no match for the then present Nieuport planes in dogfights, but their relative sturdyness and two guns were superior to almost anything else at this time.

 

Additionally to the lame performance (or at least missing new features, or capabilities to cope with the enemy) of the D.V, the D.III and V/Va seem to have vibrated badly, so it must have been hard to aim. Jentsch writes when flying a captured SPAD that this plane was superior to the german designs when using it in a dive (what is nowadays called "boom and zoom" tactics), because inspite of the higher speed it was still possible to aim exactly, and hit the mark - which seems to have not been easy with the vibrating engine of the Albatros (guess it was a D.III he compared it with).

He said something like "german pilots in french SPADS would instantly put an end to the Entente transgressions of the front".

He was certainly not aware of the SPAD's crankshaft problems, but he preferred the SPAD above the SE5a, a plane he did not take serious - lots of SE5as were still shot down by Albatros planes in 1918 on a regular basis, if not SPADS and Camels. As i read the Entente was always scarce of pilots, so a relatively easy-to-learn-and-fly plane was the choice of the time.

Oops seems i got carried away,

Greetings,

Catfish

[Hauksbee 103]

Oops seems i got carried away,

 

 

Hey, feel free. [LOL]

 

And the '200'? Does that refer to the engine? [as I rather suppose...]

[Hasse Wind 46]

Yes, it refers to the engine.

 

The only reason the D.V's were kept in service so long was because there was nothing better with which to replace them until the D.VII came along. Late 1917 was definitely a period of Entente superiority in scouts with the Camels and the Spad XIII and the S.E.5a entering service in large numbers.

[Olham 164]

Well, one shouldn't give too much about what people say - I am killing two SPAD XIII per mission

with my Albatros D Va and now the D Va 200.

 

As for Nupe 17s, do as ZoomZoom says, Hauksbee. It would perhaps look from above like you flying triangles,

the angles of them going outside the circle of the Nupe. Climbing, it is impossible for you to get into their turn.

 

Also, it is very useful to be good at deflection shooting.

I mostly damage them from further away, before I shoot them finally down.

And try to be the highest flyer, when the fighting begins; work your way down through them

[OvS 8]

Just flew a flight of four D.Va 200's against six Nieuports 17's. I got my butt handed to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd have to say that a D.V cannot turn inside a Nieuport 17. Time and time again, I'd have the D.V banked hard left as one came by, crossing from right to left. It would look like a sure bet, but I never could bring the guns to bear. Unless he was at my exact altitude, I couldn't lift up the nose that extra degree or so. The D.V was in no danger of stalling, she just had no more to give. I'd chase. but he'd stay just out of the kill zone. I'd say the Nieuport's a little faster, but closing didn't seem to be the problem. In the few times I thought I'd had bead on him, tracers would start to fly past me. Seems I always had one of them on my six. Do our other Albatros pilots find this to be the case?

 

Does the '200' in Albatros D.Va200 refer to the 200hp engine fitted to some?

 

And finally, from Wikipedia, Richtofen's assement: "The D.V entered service in May 1917 and, like the D.III before it, immediately began experiencing structural failures of the lower wing. Indeed, anecdotal evidence suggests that the D.V was even more prone to wing failures than the D.III. The outboard sections of the upper wing also suffered failures, requiring additional wire bracing. Furthermore, the D.V offered very little improvement in performance. This caused considerable dismay among frontline pilots, many of whom preferred the older D.III. Manfred von Richthofen was particularly critical of the new aircraft. In a July 1917 letter, he described the D.V as "so obsolete and so ridiculously inferior to the English that one can't do anything with this aircraft." British tests of a captured D.V revealed that the aircraft was slow to maneuver, heavy on the controls, and tiring to fly."

 

 

 

The Albatri series planes are not turn-fighters, they are B&Z, so an N17 which is a turn-fighter, will get you every time if you turn with it.

 

Like Olham says, stay high, and pepper them when you see them... then extend, then come in, turn out, extend.

 

It's hard to train yourself to do that, but you will eventually.

 

OvS

[Hauksbee 103]

Sometimes you have to lose altitude in part of this "death spiral" by kicking rudder to nose the plane down as you turn steadily, after you gain speed with this trick, lay off the rudder and yank back harder on the elevator to turn further inside your opponent till you lose speed and approach stall,....rinse....repeat. You should be able to line up a few shots this way.

Problem is, I'm using a Logitech stick that is supposed to give rudder control by twisting. I find it gives little or none, so any tactic that relies on rudder is suicide.

EDIT: I'll spend some QC time practicing the 'boom and zoom'. Thanks.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Hauksbee

[Olham 164]

Hauksbee, you got to do something about that - rudder is most important in WW1 air combat craft!

I am also still flying such a stick (will change over to SAITEK rudder pedals again this week), but mine

gives a really good rudder. It's a Thrustmaster T. Flight stick X - it's not expensive (34,- Euro), and if

you don't want to fly real peddals, go to the next computer game store and get this stick, or any other

good stick with rudder integrated.

And when shall we see you coming out of that QC habit - man, the real thing is a Campaign - you build

up a pilot, and do your best to keep him alive; you fly in good cooperation with your wingmen; you help

them, and they help you; and after a fierce fighting, you land back home on your field.

You don't know, what you're missing - it gives the whole flying a very different, much more intense feel.

Believe me!