German Bomber FMs

[+peter01 2]

Very nice cockpit mod by Sinbad, and models by A-team of course.

 

First FM by me for these planes, and they are flyable, but ...

 

If you takeoff with other planes the wings overlap, and the planes will explode. According to TK "You can adjust the take-off position in wwi_airfield1.ini in terrain .cat file. Be careful not to space them out too far tho, or they'll run into the hangar/parked aircraft". I haven't tried this yet.

 

I haven't yet tried flying several in formation, the formation.ini may need to be changed to space them out.

 

The gunners use special guns, less accurate and less effective, as do most of my other two seaters. The gun names in data.ini have a _Gunner" at end of gun name, and you will need to either use my gundata.ini in my last FM download in the Downloads Section, or manually delete "_Gunner" from the data.inis.

 

05_20_2009_German_Heavy_Bombers.zip

Edited May 20, 2009 by peter01

[loborojo 213]

fantastic thank you

[+quack74 329]

Finally! I was hoping you would get to the Gotha. Thanks a bunch.

 

I dont think you can change the spacing for take-offs. You can, but spreading out the bombers so they will not hit wingtips, would cause fighters spacing to be too far apart. The spacing is generalized for each airfield, not aircraft spacific. I think

 

As far as the inflight formations go, they seem to remain in a nice formation. they dont zig-zag all over. The spacing seems ok too. Not too tight ,but not too loose. And they are spread out at different altitudes. I like it. They also have working bomb drops. Before was almost impossible to hit a target. If fighters were around the Gothas would break formation and try to dog fight. A little anoying. But that all seems to be fixed.

 

I have one complaint. The flight model still has a nasty glitchy stall when in a steep climb. I know the Gotha would stall easily in a steep climb, but this causes the Gotha to freeze while in a climbing position and shutter with no functioning control input. I think if you could get the Gotha to stall and maybe drop its nose or dip a wing or something along those lines would be great. Have to hit Auto pilot to get out of stall or it takes along time to do it itself. Some times it will fall to the ground tail first.

 

It is flyable dont get me wrong. It flys quite well acctually. Just watch out for that stall.

 

It's great having a working Gotha. Now it's WWI with cool bombers thats for sure

Again thanks Peter01. If it wasnt for your flight models I think my FE would be on the shelf.

[+peter01 2]

Thanks for feedback quack. I'll look at the stalls down the track.

[+quack74 329]

If I may add one more thing. I just flew a mission with 8 Gothas. As soon as we were jumped by 8 camels our escorts took them on. Which was cool to watch. But we were jumped seconds later by two more camels. Only two mind you. In a matter of 1 minute all Gotha pilots were shot dead including myself. So in one minute 8Gothas were shot down. And I dont recall if any gunners even fired any shots.

 

What do you think? A little too vulnerable I would say. You know of a fix for this? They should be hard to shoot down no? I dont want it impossible to shoot them down, but there should be a middle ground.

 

The flying Characteristics are very nice and the formations are very stable. The AI stay with me all the way to the target, drop their bombs, then return home. Its nice to Finally have a working Gotha

[+peter01 2]

My guess is your not using the correct gundata.ini? See my comments in first post.

 

I just flew 6 Spad13s versus 3 Gotha's, and lost.

[WarlordATF 1]

Great Job! These FMs work 1000 times better than the old ones! All your FMs have really improved First Eagles! Thank You for all your hard work!

 

No Offense intended, but I also wanted to mention that if anyone is using my Armed Balloons Mod you will need to add the Gundata info again or the Balloons won't fire anymore. Just add this info to the Gundata.ini and run the gun editor. Remember to Change [GunDataXXX] to next available number before running the editor!

 

[GunDataXXX]

TypeName=7.92MM_Mauser98

FullName=7.92mm Mauser 1898 Rifle

Caliber=7.920000

ROF=15.000000

MuzzleVel=880.000000

AmmoWt=0.010000

WarheadWt=0.000000

Reliability=70.000000

Accuracy=70.000000

AddLight=FALSE

MaxLightRange=1000.000000

FireColor=0.150000,0.150000,0.150000

GunFireEffect=LmgFireEffect

GunFireSound=Parabellum

EffectClassName=LmgEffects

EffectTime=0.100000

TracerTexture=Tracer.tga

TracerSize=0.120000

TracerDistFactor=0.002000

TracerLength=0.025000

MaxVisibleDist=4000.000000

MaxStreakVisibleDist=1000.000000

TimeFuzed=FALSE

 

[GunDataXXX]

TypeName=303CAL_Lee_Enfield

FullName=.303 Lee Enfield Rifle

Caliber=7.700000

ROF=10.000000

MuzzleVel=744.000000

AmmoWt=0.011300

WarheadWt=0.000000

Reliability=85.000000

Accuracy=70.000000

AddLight=FALSE

MaxLightRange=1000.000000

FireColor=0.150000,0.150000,0.150000

GunFireEffect=LmgFireEffect

GunFireSound=Lewis

EffectClassName=LmgEffects

EffectTime=0.100000

TracerTexture=Tracer.tga

TracerSize=0.120000

TracerDistFactor=0.002000

TracerLength=0.025000

MaxVisibleDist=4000.000000

MaxStreakVisibleDist=1000.000000

TimeFuzed=FALSE

[+Tailspin 3]

Re: take off formations. You can also move planes forward so you could stagger the line so the wings won't overlap. All you gotta do is figure the take off order and put those that take off first in the front....that is if there is a set take off order. This shouldn't affect fighter formations 'cause they ain't gonna run into each other anyway.

[+peter01 2]

Re: take off formations. You can also move planes forward so you could stagger the line so the wings won't overlap.

 

How do you do that Tailspin?

[+Tailspin 3]

Extract the WWIAirfield.ini from either terrain.cat

 

[Runway001]

Heading=0

Offset=0,0

Length=480

Width=280

LaunchAll=TRUE

TouchDown=0,200

 

TakeOff[01]= 0,-200

TakeOff[02]= -15,-200

TakeOff[03]= 15,-200

TakeOff[04]= -30,-200

TakeOff[05]= 30,-200

TakeOff[06]= -45,-200

TakeOff[07]= 45,-200

TakeOff[08]= -60,-200

TakeOff[09]= 60,-200

TakeOff[10]= -75,-200

TakeOff[11]= 75,-200

TakeOff[12]= -90,-200

TakeOff[13]= 90,-200

TakeOff[14]=-105,-200

TakeOff[15]= 105,-200

TakeOff[16]=-120,-200

 

 

This is the take off position for up to 16 planes. The -200 is the straight line of aircraft. The left column is the spacing. 0,-200 is the centerline of the runway and the player's position. Anyway, you can move planes forward (or to the right as you are looking at the airfield with the hangers at the top) by adding to the -200 values. Take the players plane (number one) and make the coords. 0,-195 and you move the player plane 5 meters ahead of the others. So it could be possible to figure out how to space the aircraft according to take off order....or a forward vee formation should work. You get the idea. Worth having a look at.

[+Tailspin 3]

Point of clarification. The left column...negative is "up" and positive is "down" or, looking down the runway from center or the player plane, left and right. You want to make sure you don't have a plane taking off before one in front of it.

 

 

edit...looks like from the take off order and spacing that it alternates from left of center to right of center outwards so maybe a vee is the only one that will work?

[M Kessler 0]

Can't the coordinates for the takeoff order just be reconfigured to have the aircraft taking off in ranks? I'm assuming that the aircraft take off in the order listed in the INI file, correct? So just do something like this:

 

TakeOff[01]= -90,-190

TakeOff[02]= -60,-190

TakeOff[03]= -30,-190

TakeOff[04]= 0,-190

TakeOff[05]= 30,-190

TakeOff[06]= 60,-190

TakeOff[07]= 90,-190

TakeOff[08]= -75,-200

TakeOff[09]= -45,-200

TakeOff[10]= -15,-200

TakeOff[11]= 15,-200

TakeOff[12]= 45,-200

TakeOff[13]= 75,-200

TakeOff[14]=-105,-200

TakeOff[15]= 105,-200

TakeOff[16]=-120,-200

 

Just a thought...

 

Matt K.

[+Tailspin 3]

Hello Matt. Sure, I assume you can rearrange the line up like that. Why don't you give it a try and let us know how it works.

[M Kessler 0]

Well, I tried it and it worked great! Gothas fit just as they are supposed to. The Staakens need more space, however. I didn't have any collisions detected, but they did overlap wings, so perhaps I don't have collisions turned on. I'll have to check that. But the Gothas are perfect!

 

Matt K.

[Southside Bucky 1]

Hi guys.

 

Just to say that in terms of historical accuracy, you wouldn't have to make as much room for the Staaken's as you would for Gotha's.

 

Staaken's were used in small numbers, usually two or three per mission. Gotha's were utilised in much greater numbers...Anything from four, up to 25 or so.

 

Regards.

 

Bucky

[+peter01 2]

The placing works very well Matt for all aircraft, and both Gothas and Staakens. Even though the wings on Staakens overlap, they don't explode - it depends on how collision points are defined, and these seem okay. I had 6 takeoff and bomb an airfield, quite impressive! Their formation is very tight, but that is easily changed too - I think a new formation ini was included in the original Staaken package and that works well I think. I like the look of the takeoff placing too - not as neat as the standard lineup, more interesting.

[M Kessler 0]

Peter, you just gave me an idea to add just a smidge more realism and visual interest to the starting positions. How about varying them just a small amount, so that you wouldn't get that rigid, perfect line of aircraft. How about this:

 

TakeOff[01]= -90,-191

TakeOff[02]= -60,-190

TakeOff[03]= -30,-190.7

TakeOff[04]= 0,-190.3

TakeOff[05]= 30,-190

TakeOff[06]= 60,-190.1

TakeOff[07]= 90,-190.5

TakeOff[08]= -75,-200.3

TakeOff[09]= -45,-200.2

TakeOff[10]= -15,-200

TakeOff[11]= 15,-200.5

TakeOff[12]= 45,-200.1

TakeOff[13]= 75,-200

TakeOff[14]=-105,-201.1

TakeOff[15]= 105,-200.5

TakeOff[16]=-120,-200.1

[+quack74 329]

Is it possible that each terrain could use two "airfield .ini" files? One for bombers with those take off coordinates and one for fighters and the stock takeoff coordinates. Or even create two takoff senarios in the one "aircraft.ini" file. The game recognizes bombers as being bombers and fighters as such.

 

If you choose to use a bomber in single missions the game automatically produces a bomber mission senario. Same w fighters.

Why not , when choosing a bomber or a fighter, have the "airfield.ini" select the proper takeoff formation.

 

Just an idea. Seems possible. If anyone knows what I'm getting at.

 

[bombers] <------------I dont know how but something like this

TakeOff[01]= -90,-190

TakeOff[02]= -60,-190

TakeOff[03]= -30,-190

TakeOff[04]= 0,-190

TakeOff[05]= 30,-190

TakeOff[06]= 60,-190

TakeOff[07]= 90,-190

TakeOff[08]= -75,-200

TakeOff[09]= -45,-200

TakeOff[10]= -15,-200

TakeOff[11]= 15,-200

TakeOff[12]= 45,-200

TakeOff[13]= 75,-200

TakeOff[14]=-105,-200

TakeOff[15]= 105,-200

TakeOff[16]=-120,-200

 

[Fighters]

TakeOff[01]= -90,-200

TakeOff[02]= -60,-200

TakeOff[03]= -30,-200

TakeOff[04]= 0,-200

TakeOff[05]= 30,-200

TakeOff[06]= 60,-200

TakeOff[07]= 90,-200

TakeOff[08]= -75,-200

TakeOff[09]= -45,-200

TakeOff[10]= -15,-200

TakeOff[11]= 15,-200

TakeOff[12]= 45,-200

TakeOff[13]= 75,-200

TakeOff[14]=-105,-200

TakeOff[15]= 105,-200

TakeOff[16]=-120,-200

[+quack74 329]

Not a flight model question but what can be done about the shadows of the Gotha?

 

 

 

[+Tailspin 3]

Here's my variation on the theme. Works well for the Gotha's and other types. Haven't tried the Staakens...don't have them in my game. The wings will likely overlap for them though. With this one the AI tend to take off very close together so the "formation" holds together until they are all in the air.

 

 

TakeOff[01]= -50,-185

TakeOff[02]= -62.5,-200

TakeOff[03]= -25,-185

TakeOff[04]= -37.5,-200

TakeOff[05]= 0,-185

TakeOff[06]= -12.5,-200

TakeOff[07]= 25,-185

TakeOff[08]= 12.5,-200

TakeOff[09]= 50,-185

TakeOff[10]= 37.5,-200

TakeOff[11]= 75,-185

TakeOff[12]= 62.5,-200

TakeOff[13]= 100,-185

TakeOff[14]= 87.5,-200

TakeOff[15]= 125,-158

TakeOff[16]= 112.5,-200

[+Tailspin 3]

BTW...Thank you, Peter, for fixing the level bomber FMs and most importantly for me the freakin' gunners. I can now go back to flying intercept missions. I had quit because the gunners were just ridiculous. :yes:

 

I just flew a bombing mission in the Gotha. Set it on AP and watched the whole thing from the F6 veiws. Flak was constant and fairly heavy from No-Man's-Land all the way to the target. Those German mission planners need better recon! We flew over several airfields...the IP was over an airfield. Lost one to flak pretty early on. Another got hit at the IP. Kept it on AP, ordered the rest of the flight to Attack Ground, then released my bombs...too early, missed the entire airfield. The other three all got hits. A couple of AA guns and a shack or two. Meanwhile the escort and the enemy fighters were mixing it up nearby. Albatros, Camels, Dolphins, SPAD VIIs, Hanriots....a real furball.

[Bandy 3]

...Their formation is very tight, but that is easily changed too - I think a new formation ini was included in the original Staaken package and that works well I think. ...

 

Yes, I think the formation is just a bit too tight and impenetrable. I flew against a flight of 6 Gothas last night and the Blue Angles would have been jealous of that formation!!! We didn't stand a chance against that collective cross-firepower. I came in high and fast, dropped down and barrel rolled in for a quick strike, and tried to get my a$$ out of there; successful tactics I learned flying against the Luftwaffe bombers in Baltika's BoB (keep ahead of the pitchangle and yawangle of the gunners). But they nailed me smartly and in very short order.

 

I know they weren't easy, and shouldn't be in game either, but currently the formation.ini does not allow stragglers that can be picked off just that little bit easier.